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History lessons no more in Poland (Tusk's change)


Ironside 47 | 9,586
4 Apr 2012  #1
In Poland Tusk's government implemented change in schools in Poland. Reducing number of history lessons to almost non existence.
What do you think ?
smurf 39 | 1,982
4 Apr 2012  #2
Reducing number of history lessons to almost non existence

History here seems to be taught completely wrong. Every single student I've ever had here complains about their history lessons.

They seem to be nothing but learning facts and dates and then the exams are multiple choice questions. No focus is put on understanding the history and what lead to significant events happening. It seems to me anyway that schools here are killing student's interest in history before it can have a chance to take root.
rybnik 18 | 1,462
4 Apr 2012  #3
In Poland Tusk's government implemented change in schools in Poland. Reducing number of history lessons to almost non existence.
What do you think ?

How does the saying go? "If you don't know where you've been, you won't know where you're going".
Cheery 10 | 126
4 Apr 2012  #4
schools raise tools amirite
a large portion of the history taught in schools is biased and unreliable anyway. i didn't give a jam about history til i got older.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
4 Apr 2012  #5
Spot on. I always loved history,would pour over my Grandparents books as a pre schooler and relatives would send me Postcards of Romans or Knights or Vikings instead of traditional Birthday cards. But,History as taught at school was utter trash,boring and twisted and very one sided,as raised above,a series of events seemingly out of the blue with no depth just either hard facts or the silly, exercise in empathy stuff we had to do,ie, one short lesson on WW 1 followed by 2 or 3 lessons taken up with writing an imagianry letter from the front line(we had not been taught much about..)...

Some people always like and have an interest in History,most people though find themselves growing into it in their 20s or 30s. Mates of mine who when we were younger had no interest are now just as big fans of Time Team as me :)

History is something best learned away from the classroom beyond the very basics of how to shift out pri' and sec' evidence etc.
The stuff people "remember" from school history lessons is often the reason arguments flare on here, jingoistic,simplistic rubbish more suited to hollywood than history :)
pawian 155 | 8,612
4 Apr 2012  #6
History lessons no more.

Stop lying.

Stop this anti-Polish propaganda at last.

Stop Ironside destruction.
Barney 14 | 1,470
4 Apr 2012  #7
History as taught at school was utter trash,boring and twisted and very one sided,as raised above,a series of events seemingly out of the blue with no depth just either hard facts or the silly, exercise in empathy stuff we had to do

That’s bad, a good teacher is easily worth their weight in gold however you were taught after the national curriculum was brought in (that’s sort of a designated way to teach and what to teach). My history teacher just taught what he felt like or so it seemed, later it all made sense the same with most of my other teachers.
Natasa 1 | 582
4 Apr 2012  #8
In Poland Tusk's government implemented change in schools in Poland. Reducing number of history lessons to almost non existence.
What do you think ?

Better than changing the program when the winds keep changing directions and blow from east to west then west to east changing the climate each time.

it should be banned ; )

edit

History has the relation to truth that theology has to religion - i.e., none to speak of.

Hehe.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
5 Apr 2012  #9
History is one of those topics that gets bigger as time passes, perhaps more would be in order?

This is what happened in Canada, first important classes were dropped, then "lifestyle" classes were introduced to take the place of "book learning" -as though school isn't the BEST PLACE for BOOK LEARNING and now young people in Canada are so god damned stupid it makes my head hurt.
OP Ironside 47 | 9,586
5 Apr 2012  #10
There is a hunger strike in Warsaw in protest against reduction of history lesson in Polish schools.
Meathead 5 | 470
5 Apr 2012  #11
In Poland Tusk's government implemented change in schools in Poland. Reducing number of history lessons to almost non existence.
What do you think ?

What a stupid idea. What was his reasoning?
pawian 155 | 8,612
5 Apr 2012  #12
Guys, don`t be silly and don`t let be fooled by Ironside`s boolshit.

History lessons are going to remain at a previous number in all types of schools - primary, junior high, senior high. The only difference is that senior high school students, at the age of 16, are not going to start their course from the beginning, i.e., ancient times, repeating the same material again, like it used to be in the old system, but will continue the course from WW1 (the year 1918) where they finish in junior high now.

In this way, until they reach matura exams at the age of 19, they will have a greater chance to know more about the most recent history of Poland.

It was a paradox before that Polish students learnt more about Egyptian pyramids (lectured 3 times in 3 types of schools!!!) than martial law of 1981 in Poland.

The reform doesn`t reduce number of lessons, it only shifts the focus.

Those guys who went on hunger strike are PiS activists who got orders from KaczyƄski to try to disrupt the education reform. Their task is to harm, not help, like everything what PiS is doing in this country.

Iron, do you really need to be as maniacally incompetent as they are? Are you ready to write any anti-Polish boolshit in order to damage the image of Poland? Isn`t it high time you spat into your own face instead of spitting on Poland?

Yuck!!!

History here seems to be taught completely wrong. Every single student I've ever had here complains about their history lessons.

Unfortunately, it is true. Usually 2, 3 people per group in senior high are really interested in history after doing the course in two previous types of schools. The rest`s interest in history had been killed. I saw it in all of my class units which I tutored so far.

Something had to be done about it.

We shall see if it helps.

But keeping the old system which proved worthless would be nonsense, anyway.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
5 Apr 2012  #13
they will have a greater chance to know more about the most recent history of Poland.

grreat news! Thanks for the input/update.
OP Ironside 47 | 9,586
5 Apr 2012  #14
Stop lying.

Stop trolling!

Iron, do you really need to be as maniacally incompetent as they are?

Nobody is as incompetent as your beloved PO, stop your frantic posts aimed at me which are nonsense, and sounds really queer coming from the PO' member and an ardent political partisan.

I would gladly spit in your face and your leaders because they are doing a real harm to Poland. Image ? You are pathetic!

History lessons are going to remain at a previous number in all types of schools - primary, junior high, senior high. The only difference is that senior high school students, at the age of 16, are not going to start their course from the beginning, i.e., ancient times, repeating the same material again, like it used to be in the old system, but will continue the course from WW1 (the year 1918) where they finish in junior high now.

You are talking BS! History lesson for over 15 years old will not be the same. There will be History and Societylesson ,not history lesson, a different name, a different contents.

As for number of lessons, government says that number of lesson will remain the same but that government is known for lying through its teeth. I would rather believe experts who say otherwise.

Anyway if everything remain the same - why change anything ? It cost monies ain't it!
There plenty more urgent issues to be solved and government focuses on history lessons in schools just to change nothing ? phew!
monia 3 | 212
5 Apr 2012  #15
At the age of 17-19 years, the young minds begin to open up to more serious issues of political nature: civic responsibility, national loyalty and betrayal, and it is time when you start talking to them about difficult issues, at this age they will be able to better understand the complexity of history – but they will not have history lessons at this age any more.

For most young Poles picture of the history will have to be stopped at an infantile level.

Future engineers, doctors, scientists, even lawyers will have a knowledge of history at the level of a child.
These days to enter to the faculty of law it is not required to pass history even on the basic level , the future holder of the Master Degree in Law will be half illiterate .

Before the reforms in the high school in the basic version there were 240 hours of history throughout 4 year cycle. Currently it is 60 hours.

They seem trivial to me, in this context, disputes over The Museum - European House, which is to be built in Brussels. A couple, maybe a few dozen spectators from across Europe, will have the opportunity to see the Battle of Grunwald, or about the partitions. Will you see there any other Polish names outside of Lech Walesa and a woman in the seventeenth century, burned at the stake (the symbol of Polish intolerance)????

European history is full of such cases, but why was it chosen as a Polish example? Only some technocrats from EU might know, probably trying to hide these dark ages reality and shed it on other less affluent countries .Thanks to this trick in years to come, young students will find out that only Poland burned people on the stakes. Ufff…….that`s beyond my comprehension.

Without a new generation of educated Poles, this empty space which will remain after washing out the history from high schools will be filled in by simplistic thinking. There will be a very fertile field, for speculations such as theories of conspiracy. The mind left without historical background will go through a disturbing trail of suspicions.

Were there any historians among these reformers - a President of the Polish Historical Society, and maybe the chairman of the Committee of Historical Sciences, or Dean of the Faculty of History at the Jagiellonian University? Professors - Chwalba, Paczkowski, Samsonowicz, Tazbir, No ………….it does not matter.

It is important that it was “a 100 people “commission!!!!! This figure validates their competence. So this was important. And it is financed, with very specifically indicated sources: the European Social Fund.

Polish Ministry of Education already is too poor to finance work on the same subject.

But the “future assistance” will be received and the work has been completed.

The “ future assistance “ to erase national unity , identity , civic responsibility and national loyalty, aiming the straight way to create gray masses without their own views , easy to control .
rail baltica - | 1
5 Apr 2012  #16
Think yourself lucky.
In Scotland (and I think England) history and languages are optional from age 14 (ie S3 onwards).
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,670
5 Apr 2012  #17
yes and even before that all they do is have a day where they dress up as Victorians say. In one junior school I know, the history topic was Nelson Mandela in THREE separate years.
pawian 155 | 8,612
5 Apr 2012  #18
Were there any historians among these reformers - a President of the Polish Historical Society, and maybe the chairman of the Committee of Historical Sciences, or Dean of the Faculty of History at the Jagiellonian University? Professors - Chwalba, Paczkowski, Samsonowicz, Tazbir, No .............it does not matter.

You mentioned the guys who support the old ineffective system.

Why don`t you mention guys who support the reform? They are equally notable historians and experts...... :):):):):):)

I would gladly spit in your face and your leaders because they are doing a real harm to Poland.

As an expat whow doesn`t live in Poland, you have no idea what is good or bad for us, Poles.

Spit on my face, then, as a Christian I will turn the other cheek too. I am ready, I will survive that.

s

You are talking BS! History lesson for over 15 years old will not be the same.

How do you know? Have you already attended such a lesson? Why are you commenting on sth you have no idea about?

There will be History and Societylesson ,not history lesson, a different name, a different contents.

Hm, do you suggest they will learn biology at History and Society classes?

As for number of lessons, government says that number of lesson will remain the same but that government is known for lying through its teeth. I would rather believe experts who say otherwise.

Actually, the government declares more lessons of history in senior high.

But naturally you already know they are lying. :):):):)):

Iron, stop this madness of yours, please, it is getting ridiculous.

stop your frantic posts aimed at me which are nonsense,

Yes, my posts are frantic. I feel I was chosen by God to defend Poland against such maniacal patriots like you and other PiS nutters who desire to turn this country into nationalistic hell. :):):):):)

Anyway if everything remain the same - why change anything ? It cost monies ain't it!
There plenty more urgent issues to be solved and government focuses on history lessons in schools just to change nothing ? phew!

That is a really infantile argument.

Can`t you find more sophisticated ones?

, aiming the straight way to create gray masses without their own views , easy to control .

Without a new generation of educated Poles, this empty space which will remain after washing out the history from high schools will be filled in by simplistic thinking. There will be a very fertile field, for speculations such as theories of conspiracy. The mind left without historical background will go through a disturbing trail of suspicions.

Come to any high school in Poland and try to talk to students like that. I assure you, they will consider you an alien who dropped from another galaxy. :):):):)
OP Ironside 47 | 9,586
5 Apr 2012  #19
like you and other PiS nutters

Interesting that you labeled me PiS supporter, that is your world, clique-man! I have nothing to do with PiS and never had, unlike you who is PO party member.

Characteristic is a way you guys think :)
As for the rest of your ramblings, they are just ramblings, it is just a sign that you loosing your cool, cause you lost your marbles long time ago.
pawian 155 | 8,612
5 Apr 2012  #20
I have nothing to do with PiS and never had,

If you lived in Poland, you would. :):):):) You share certain traits with them - namely, the total inability to admit you can be wrong or have made a mistake. I proved that this thread is based on fallacy and sick prophetering. And what do you do? Instead of saying sorry, you abuse me even more and call me ......

you who is PO party member.

I know nothing about it. Can`t I be from PSL? :):):):)

it is just a sign that you loosing your cool, cause you lost your marbles long time ago.

:):):):):):)

Actually, I have always had one marble and never lost it. Too precious keepsake from my primary school.
monia 3 | 212
5 Apr 2012  #21
Why don`t you mention guys who support the reform? They are equally notable historians and experts.

Not in my opinion .

Come to any high school in Poland and try to talk to students like that. I assure you, they will consider you an alien who dropped from another galaxy. :):):):)

I have no doubts that there are enlightened minds around us , knowledge- hungry young people , but I am talking about future elite . There won`t be any , I guess. I perfectly realize the fact, without visiting your school , how poor historical background Polish students have in general. It referes not only to history but general knowledge .

The Polish school continues to be a place where memorizing of prepared knowledge and its enforcement takes place , which scope is determined by authorities and teachers. The school will not be a place where the students' own knowledge of the surrounding reality is created .

The scope of the modernization of the system is done only by another shortening of the period of general education.

The great flaw of the educational reform lies in releasing a large number of graduates with relatively low key competencies in general knowledge .

Will early specialization change this situation? I doubt it.

Besides, I wonder whether the Ministry has got any scientific evidence proving that at the age of sixteen the student knows who he wants to be in the future and therefore he can start the stage of specialized training, in preparation for certain higher education.

What will happen to a high school student who will choose the first class on literature, and before graduation will change his/her mind and want to study at the polytechnic?

Is the age of 16 enough to determine the life`s future ?
pawian 155 | 8,612
5 Apr 2012  #22
The Polish school continues to be a place where memorizing of prepared knowledge and its enforcement takes place , which scope is determined by authorities and teachers.

Yes, that is why the reforms have been gradually introduced. Less cramming and memorizing, more thinking.

What will happen to a high school student who will choose the first class on literature, and before graduation will change his/her mind and want to study at the polytechnic?
Is the age of 16 enough to determine the life`s future ?

These are very good questions but they suit another thread. This thread is purely about history classes.
jon357 63 | 14,341
5 Apr 2012  #23
Less cramming and memorizing, more thinking.

And that is how it should be. In history lessons, kids should know how to question and analyse.
pawian 155 | 8,612
5 Apr 2012  #24
Exactly. After the basic course, which starts in grade 4 of primary school from ancient history and finishes with WW1 1918 in last grade of junior high school, students of first year senior high school will learn history from 1918 to 2004. In years 2 and 3 they will face problem solving of historical issues, e.g., " Disputing Polish national Uprisings of 19 century."

My wife`s friend who teaches history at the Jagiellonian University and is completely politically neutral says the reform is very promising. The old system failed because young Poles didn`t want to learn history . :(:(:(:(:(
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
5 Apr 2012  #25
youtube.com/watch?v=3g61xASD-24

youtube.com/watch?v=8qSkaAwKMD4

You need Horrible Histories then :)

youtu.be/3g61xASD-24
pawian 155 | 8,612
5 Apr 2012  #26
Very funny. History in a 2.5 minute pill. :):):):):) Who knows? Such a distance to one`s country`s history might be worth imitating... :):):):) I can`t wait to watch Polish HH clips.......

BTW, doing shopping in a hypermarket today, I bought two books from the cheap shelf: Stirling Bridge and Falkirk 1297-98 and The Rhineland 1945 by UK`s Osprey Publishing (in Polish translation of course). Not bad publications, though the font is sometimes too small.

Very funny.

Funny but also educational.

Do British history teachers play these clips in class instead of a lecture?
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
6 Apr 2012  #27
Im not sure. They are on the BBC during Childrens TV time and the books have been very popular for at least 10 years now (kept me sane when I worked my shifts in the gift shop lol).

What I do know is that in my time in high school( early/mid 90s) we were sat in front of the TV and watched BlackAdder Goes Forth during the module on WW1 :)
pawian 155 | 8,612
6 Apr 2012  #28
And many other subjects are taught on a higher level in Poland than in the West.

That is why most Polish students who go to live abroad are aces in their new schools.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
6 Apr 2012  #29
There is a hunger strike in Warsaw in protest against reduction of history lesson in schools.

That is just idiotic. The rationale behind the reforms is quite simple the government wants children to focus on the "useful" subjects in school like maths, physics, chemistry, biology, and Polish. History and Religion are seen as big obstacles to this, and personally I would be in favor of cutting religion out of the curriculum or combining it with something else like a hybrid of something. I understand where the government is coming from. Sadly for history-it is not measured on the PISA league table of international competitiveness in education, and Poland want's to be competitive, so something has to give.

And as someone who loves history it has to be said that history never invented anything nor did it cure anyone or made anybody else's existence on this planet any easier, the subjects that i have mentioned above have. It pains me to say it, but history is just not as useful as the others.
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
6 Apr 2012  #30
And many other subjects are taught on a higher level in Poland than in the West.

Junior school in the UK is from 5 to about 10,so, lets ease up on the kids a bit yeah :)
Dressing up as Victorians sounds weak,but, this usually combines with a field trip to a "Victorian" location, a country house or a reconstructed village ( Beamish or Crich etc).

Anything that inspires a bit of fun and interest in History is fine by me. As Barney picked up on I was just unfortunate to do my High School years during a period of transition from one style to another.

But,we here also share worries that "real" subjects are being replaced by so called "easy" subjects just to get schools grades up.


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