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Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years?


MediaWatch Activity: 10 / 947
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11 Mar 2012  #1

Just curious,

In light of all the SELECTIVE stories (most of them exaggerated) by people on this forum who are Jews or have anti-Polish biases, about Poles being "anti-semitic" towards Jews.......does Poland deserve any credit for allowing MOST of the world's Jewish population into Poland to pro-create into millions of Jews with freedom to practice their religion, start their own businesses, have a life of their own, etc in Poland?

Or should it be taken for GRANTED that Poland ALLOWED the majority of the world's Jewish population for ONE THOUSAND YEARS to live and thrive in Poland?

Wroclaw Boy  
11 Mar 2012  #2

Yes, Poland is great.

Talk about the Polish "303 squadron won the war" mentaility.

You shouldnt have showed your hand so early in the topic.
JonnyM Activity: 12 / 2,634
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11 Mar 2012  #3

Why the capital letters?
OP MediaWatch Activity: 10 / 947
Joined: 30 Aug 2008 ♂
 
11 Mar 2012  #4

Yes, Poland is great.Talk about the Polish "303 squadron won the war" mentaility. You shouldnt have showed your hand so early in the topic.

With all due respect Wroclaw Boy,

Poland is hardly a great country according to the majority of the people on this forum who happen to be Poland-haters who are always itching to find fault with Poland.

There is very little "303 squadron won the war mentality" here in this forum.

The predominant sentiment in this forum is "What is another reason why Poles are a terrible horrible bad "anti-semitic" people that don't deserve credit for anything and should only be bashed?" :(
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Mar 2012  #5

would i be completely wasting my time if i attempted to convince you that patriotism is a load of over hyped BS programmed into us from a young age by a follow the sheep mentaility?
OP MediaWatch Activity: 10 / 947
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11 Mar 2012  #6

I'm confused. I have no idea what you mean by that or why you feel prompted to say that or what relevance what you say has to do with this topic.

I am going to go out on a limb here and ask......are you saying that to me because you think I am being "overly patriotic" because I am asking simply why Poles are rarely given credit for anything positive they have done for Jews and are only being defined by the percieved negative things they have done against Jews?

I just don't get it.
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Mar 2012  #7

I wouldnt call that a limb you basically have it. Youre not asking "simply", you made your point and over exagerated with all the rediculous capitals. Your patriotism is annoying for me.
OP MediaWatch Activity: 10 / 947
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11 Mar 2012  #8

Well Wroclaw Boy......I don't know what to say. But even if you and I have some disagreements here, I just want to say.... I appreciate you and the other moderators letting me express my free speech and opinions here. :)
pip Activity: 11 / 1,662
Joined: 4 Jul 2011 ♀
 
11 Mar 2012  #9

I don't think that "Poles are rarely given credit for anything positive" is accurate.
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Mar 2012  #10

I appreciate you and the other moderators letting me express my free speech and opinions here. :)

Its not free speach though, you are a drone expressing the same opinions millions of others have before you, this isnt something new and exclusvie to you. it is the same ball park as 303 squadron mentaility spoken by many Poles.

Americans without any real identity try there hardest to relate back to what ever ancestry they have and try to shout as loud as possible, here we have you - a Polish American trying to even make Poland look great for in your words allowing jews to settle. I'm not even going to look at that can of worms let alone open it.

Patriotism sucks and YOUR thread is the perfect example of that fact.

I remember you banging on and on about Caorline Wozniacki, and i also remember this comment

One can be proud of being Polish without "waiving the Polish flag" to everyone.

.

If you stopped with the patriotism you would actually feel a lot better, but alas you cant teach an old dog new tricks.
Harry Activity: 65 / 12,658
Joined: 2 May 2007 ♂
 
11 Mar 2012  #11

Should Poland be given credit for the above? I'd say no and for this reason: if Plans is given credit for a decision taken a thousand years ago, Poland must also be given blame for all the bad things which happened to Jews in Poland. Do we really expect Poles to hang their heads in shame because of all the pogroms, the discrimination, the refusal to let Polish citizens into Poland in 1938 because they were Jews, the ghetto benches, the university quotas, the NSZ's Jew hunts, the post-war pogroms and all the other murders of Jews when they returned to their homes, the campaign in the 1960s against 'zionists', and all the rest?

I certainly do not expect Poles to feel shame for those actions (unless they personally took part in or now benefit from such actions) and so fail to see why they should be praised for an action which took place long before them.
OP MediaWatch Activity: 10 / 947
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11 Mar 2012  #12

Its not free speach though, you are a drone expressing the same opinions millions of others have before you, this isnt something new and exclusvie to you. it is the same ball park as 303 squadron mentaility spoken by many Poles.

Are you serious? "Millions of Poles" have expressed my opinions that have defended Poland? Really? Although there are some Pro-Poland Poles on this forum, I just don't get the sense that there are a lot of Poles or people of Polish ancestry speaking out for Poland. But I could be wrong.

One can be proud of being Polish without "waiving the Polish flag" to everyone.

Well I am sorry to say, but I think you are reading things into my comments that are not true.
Especially when I have never said that "Poland is a great country". That is what you are saying about my intentions. Since you are bringing this up about my assumed intentions, can you kindly point out where I ever said "Poland is a great country"??

Frankly I don't think Poland is a great country. It is not a world power and relative to other countries like the US, Russia and most Western European countries , it is not a significant country. I just think it has been a maligned country. That's all.

If you stopped with the patriotism you would actually feel a lot better, but alas you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

Sorry to say but that is not true what you are reading into the things I say. As I even told critics of Poland like Delphiadomine, I am NOT patriotic towards Poland. I am not a Pole. I am American and I am firstly and only patriotic towards America since this is where I was born. All I have done here is speak out against what I feel have been unjust criticisms of my ancestral country.

Should Poland be given credit for the above?

So tell me Harry. In your opinion, has Poland treated Jews overall..... bad or good in your view?
Polonius3 Activity: 976 / 11,287
Joined: 11 Apr 2008 ♂
 
11 Mar 2012  #13

Poland was not one of many Jewish strongholds before WW2, it was THE most important one. It was a bastion of Jewish rleligious and cultural life as well as economic development.

It all started after Jews got kicked out of one 'enlightened' Western country after another, and only Poland put out the welcome mat. Natrually there was rivlary and friction with the indigenous Polish population, but that was better than being burnt at the stake. Known for their business acumen and professional clout the Jews took over many professions, and when Poladn re-emerged as an indepdnet state in 1918, Jews disproportioantely controlled the legal and medical professions, academic community, busdiness circles, etc. This caused Polish resentment and inspired such slogans as 'swój do swego po swoje' (patronise Polsih businesses). The bottom line is: were it not for Poland, who knows if the Jews would have survived as an influential ethno-relgious community?
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 14,710
Joined: 25 Nov 2008 ♂
 
11 Mar 2012  #14

I am NOT patriotic towards Poland. I am not a Pole.

We know - otherwise you wouldn't attempt to stir up hatred between Jews and Poles on a regular basis on here, as well as between Russians and Poles.
OP MediaWatch Activity: 10 / 947
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11 Mar 2012  #15

Indeed Poland was not an unflawed country. It has its bad elements just like any other nation.

There have been many anti-semitic acts in America, but you don't see the media or Jewish groups anywhere talk about "American anti-semitism".

In North Jersey/America there was a rabbi who had his house firebombed recently. In New York City there was graffiti on one of the "J Trains" that was turned into saying the "Jew Train". Why aren't any media or Jewish groups talking about "American anti-semitism"?

Google "Crown Heights Anti-semitic riots". This is where a Jewish guy was killed and a Jewish neighborhood was attacked by other Americans. Why NO accusations of "American anti-semitism"? Certainly if this happened in Poland the Liberal establishment media in Poland and the US and other countries would have a field day talking about "POLISH anti-semitism this" and "POLISH anti-semitism that".
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Mar 2012  #16

I am NOT patriotic towards Poland. I am not a Pole. I am American and I am firstly and only patriotic towards America since this is where I was born.

Your thread titles may suggest otherwise:

Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years?
NFL Rob Gronkowski is on record pace after big win for Patriots
Polish boxers Majewski, Wach & Szpilka fight tonight
Part Polish-Australian Samantha Stosur wins 2011 US Open
Polish-Australian Samantha Stosur wins US Open 2011
Tomasz Adamek vs Vitali Klitschko fight today
Polish-Scottish American, Chris Ferguson, commands final Space Shuttle mission
German Polish girl Sabine Lisicki upsets French Open champ at Wimbledon
3 of 4 Woman Semi-finalists at Porsche Open are of Polish ancestry
Incredible Polish Athlete - Jozef Wadecki
Caroline Wozniacki wins Indian Wells Tournament - gets ready for Miami tournament
Tomasz Adamek vs Vinny Maddalone tonight in USA
Polish President celebrates Hanukkah with Jews
Pat Benatar - a nice Polish American singer
The Media's Slander of Poland. Ignorance, Lazy Editing or Malicious Libel?
Caroline Wozniacki Tennis Player has a chance at winning the US Open.
Polish Fighter Tomasz Adamek vs Michael Grant WAR
rozumiemnic Activity: 9 / 2,875
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11 Mar 2012  #17

Google "Crown Heights Anti-semitic riots".

what happened in CRown Heights was quite specific to that area and was over 20 years ago,
ladykangaroo Activity: - / 165
Joined: 2 Jan 2009 ♀
 
11 Mar 2012  #18

Patriotism sucks

Nope.

I have always thought about my country in the same way I think of my family.

I don't get to choose the family / country I am born into. I may not like all the members of the family. I may move out of my home place and live far away for a good while.

But it is my family. I will always have strong feelings about them. I will know them better than anyone else. There will be always one place that will be my home(land). I can be proud of my ancestors and their actions. I can be proud of my second name inherited after my grandmother. And surname inherited after many that lived before my time. These are my roots, for good and for bad. I may be ashamed of an uncle or two. But it's a part of my history, my family history, the chain of events and people that shaped me.

And I am ready to protect my family if necessary, especially if I think the attack is an unjust one.

Many on this forum are, unfortunately.
Foreigner4 Activity: 12 / 1,778
Joined: 18 Nov 2007 ♂
 
11 Mar 2012  #19

why should the majority today's Polish population receive praise for something they had no part in?
why should the majority of the world's Jewish population receive sympathy for something they had no part in?
why should the majority of the world's population wage war for decisions we've had no part in?
ReservoirDog Activity: - / 132
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11 Mar 2012  #20

a true diplomat :)
p3undone Activity: 8 / 1,153
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11 Mar 2012  #21

Once again I am fascinated by this bashing of Americans.I'm sure Poland has existed since time immemorial and it's ancestors came from no

where else and of course did not have to establish it's own national identity.Btw,how long has Poland been a unified cohesive state........
PlasticPole Activity: 7 / 2,671
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11 Mar 2012  #22

It depends on what today's Poles think. What they think is more important than history. If Poles hate Jews - for whatever reason - then it is what it is. If they don't, then they don't.
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Mar 2012  #23

Many on this forum are, unfortunately.

so youre proud of your heritage, so am I, so are most people.

Patriotism is often blind, but seeing as you are patriotic what will you be doing/have you done for Poland?
ladykangaroo Activity: - / 165
Joined: 2 Jan 2009 ♀
 
11 Mar 2012  #24

so are most people.

And I suppose that's ok with you, as long as they don't call it "patriotism"? :)

what will you be doing/have you done for Poland?

It's not only about "doing". It's also about the emotions, feelings, way of thinking and that part seems to irk you most. The fact that someone may be proud of their country, ancestry, history, that they may actually LIKE the place they were born at, its past and present, and the people around them. And feel protective towards all of this. It does not have to be some sort of blind, sheepish, brainwashed (have I missed anything?) attitude. It may be the sort of love you might have for your brother - you see his flaws, you try to help him in overcoming these, you are proud when he does. And if he fails - you still love him. He is your brother after all and there is a good chance there is much more to him than the couple of things than annoy you. Sure, the relationship may be strained sometimes, you may not get along very well on a few occasions. But at the end of the day you realise how much you have in common - and that he is the one who for example saved you from bullies numerous times. And it hurts if you see him being attacked by bullies now.

As for "doing"...for my country I am doing pretty much the same I'm doing for the family. Try to stay a good person. Not to bring shame to the family name or Polish nation. Cherish the memory of my grandfather. Of his father. Of others worth remembering. Talk proudly about them. Bring flowers to their graves. Help the less fortunate. My little sister. Other kids. Give back when I can. Support grassroots movements. Politically I am far left, I will always support any organic work movements similar to the 19th century ones ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positivism_in_Poland ). I vote. I discuss things. I write (that includes my posts here :D ). I argue sometimes. Generally - I care. And do what I think is the right thing to do.
Ironside Activity: 41 / 7,546
Joined: 26 Feb 2009 ♂
 
11 Mar 2012  #25

what happened in CRown Heights was quite specific to that area and was over 20 years ago,

how is that important?

Why NO accusations of "American anti-semitism"? Certainly if this happened in Poland the Liberal establishment media in Poland and the US and other countries would have a field day talking about "POLISH anti-semitism this" and "POLISH anti-semitism that".

Absolutely ! There are people who are banging about this all the time.
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Mar 2012  #26

It's not only about "doing". It's also about the emotions, feelings, way of thinking and that part seems to irk you most.

Wrong

The fact that someone may be proud of their country, ancestry, history, that they may actually LIKE the place they were born

what the hell are you talking about, most people will think they like the place where they were born because it was the place they were born, they wont have many choices. Your words are rhetoric nonsense.

And feel protective towards all of this.

Feel protective towards this because........they were born there? as i said patriotism is blind.

It does not have to be some sort of blind, sheepish, brainwashed (have I missed anything?) attitude.

but it usually is, especially with those that are not too smart.

In keeping with the analogy, what if your brothers a real a$$hole? If your brother needed help would you just up and leave him, as you left Poland?

As for "doing"...for my country I am doing pretty much the same I'm doing for the family. Try to stay a good person. Not to bring shame to the family name or Polish nation. Cherish the memory of my grandfather. Of his father.

No thats not what i meant. What are you doing to benefit Poland - in a true patriotic manner? Im not referring to your family im talking about Poland.
xzqbq7 Activity: 2 / 104
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 ♂
 
11 Mar 2012  #27

And do what I think is the right thing to do

Ladykangaroo, you are very dangerous to some people on this forum. And thank you for that.

Few facts about Poland:
in recent years 2 million Poles emmigrated to foreign countries, that is more than 5% of the population,
the birthrate is at 1.26, the lowest in Europe and 206-th in the world.

Can these numbers justify calling the situation in Poland 'peaceful extermination'?
EM_Wave Activity: 9 / 312
Joined: 11 Nov 2011 ♂
 
11 Mar 2012  #28

Wasn't the only reason Jews were let into Poland because ONE king allowed them to? I don't see how Poles should be given credit for that.
Vieslava Activity: - / 23
Joined: 11 Mar 2012 ♀
 
11 Mar 2012  #29

Once again I am fascinated by this bashing of Americans.I'm sure Poland has existed since time immemorial and it's ancestors came from no
where else and of course did not have to establish it's own national identity.Btw,how long has Poland been a unified cohesive state........

*************************

How long Poland has been a unified cohesive state?

At least 1,500 years - longer than USA and nearly as long as Western European countries. After all, England was conquered by the Romans in the First Century AD and this is the main source of its perceived "civilization". Poland, on the other hand, never allowed to be conquered by the Romans or the Roman Empire (ancient Rome should NOT be confused with the Holy Roman Empire) and only joined the western civilization for POLITICAL reasons by accepting the Christianity. Polish princesses married German, Czech, Scandinavian princes long before they accepted Christianity and the ease with which Poland joined the Holy Roman Empire is a testimony of its political maturity during that time.

Your comment is very arrogant and self-serving.
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Mar 2012  #30

Can these numbers justify calling the situation in Poland 'peaceful extermination'?

You could call it......... terrible politics, ladykangaroo along with a few million others wouldnt have left Poland if the future held more hope.

Im sure she will be back with all her patriotic crap and family analogies.




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Should Poland be given ANY credit for ALLOWING Jews into Poland for 1000 years?
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