Life / Do you think that Polish people are rude? [951]

Yeah, with arrogance like that there is no way you aren't British ;-)

Life / Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?! [155]

Cheating isn't accepted in Poland! Please, don't make such unfair generalizations - you are implying some „cheating culture” and trying to explain it, there is no such thing as „cheating culture” in Poland. It's true that some students try to cheat, but no more than 5-15%.

What GoDfaTheR420 described is scandalous indeed, but very uncommon. I ended my primary and secondary school in Poland. Teachers were always very strict. Usually, at exams we had to sit individually, we had few versions of exam sheets/questions. If someone was spotted cheating or even looking in the wrong direction, this person automatically had to give back his/her work and got 1 (the lowest grade) and had to get out of classroom and was humiliated. I can't even imagine a teacher helping a student!

Paying for exams common? Definitely not. If any teacher or professor was caught on taking łapówka, his carrier would be broken! If someone is doing this, he must be hiding that very carefully like in every other country.


What your wife is doing is definitely not good, but really, that's not true it's normal in Poland. Although, I have to say, everywhere one can find some students trying to make their life easier. Look for example at yahoo answers where thousand of students from all over the world are posting, to make someone do their homework. If you think all students in Poland have such 'help' like you wife's brother, you are deeply mistaken. Majority of parents just don't have a time, wilingness (they want their children to actually learn something) or enough knowledge (they have forgotten some material from school). Even if they are helping, they're not doing whole homework for their children!

And, In Poland, exams aren't everything, you have to participate actively in a lesson (you got points for that), you have to answer teacher's questions, you have kartkówki (unannounced little exams - quiz?), projects, presetations. We don't get grades for nothing.




What are you doing here is creating another ugly myth about Poland, please don't do that.

I ask you, what do you really know about Polish schools? Were you educated here? I was. And I've been learning English in the Polish public school - that's the only source of my english 'skills' . There are probably very limited and I'm still making a lot of mistakes, but I wouldn't know English at all, if I was cheating at school.

Life / Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?! [155]


But not necessarily in Poland.

amazon.com/Cheating-Culture-Americans-Doing-Wrong/dp/0151010188

Life / Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?! [155]


Ha ha, that's not very funny ;)

Life / Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?! [155]

I'm deadly serious about this matter and I'll defend Polish students ;). So...where did you get this 'GUS statistics'? ;)

Life / Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?! [155]


Z dupy? From your ass? :P


Very good Polish ;)

Life / Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?! [155]


Ok. It's true that some students in Poland cheat. Although, in schools that I attended to, cheating was not common and always punished. Still, I don't understand why are you implying that Poland is a country of cheaters. Cheating in schools is the source of corruption and creates the fundaments of the cheating culture. May I understand your words like that? If so, let's see, how this 'cheating in schools' looks in some other countries:

About U.S.A
"A Duke University study shows that 75 percent of students admit to cheating. 90 percent of student admit to copying someone's paper. Denise Pope, adjunct professor in the School of Education at Stanford University says, "Nationally, 75 percent of all high school students cheat."

classroom-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/cheating_is_on_the_rise#ixzz0EALTNyQO&A

"The Majority of US Students Cheat. Recent survey results from the Educational Testing Service and the Ad Council suggest that 75 percent to 98 percent of students cheat in high school."

prlog.org/10035000-the-majority-of-us-students-cheat.html

About U.K
"A quarter of university students have cheated by copying material for essays from the internet, claims a survey. Researchers, working with an exam plagiarism watchdog, say that very few of these cheating students are caught."

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/3852869.stm

"The use of mobile phones to help answer questions during (UK) exams helped contribute to a 9% increase in cheating."
textually.org/textually/archives/2005/04/007943.htm

"Cheating in national tests for 11-year-olds is so widespread that school league tables can no longer be trusted."
guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/oct/28/schools.primaryeducation1

"Thousands of students cheating in exams. Almost 4,000 students were caught cheating in GCSE and A-level exams last summer, according to figures."
telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/5011756/Thousands-of-students-cheating-in-exams.html

"Some British teachers `helping students cheat'. THE Times newspaper reports that senior examiners have discovered that teachers have been caught helping their students cheat in coursework that contribute towards their final GCSE and A- level grades. This included confirming pupils' coursework in writing as original despite clear indications that the children had either colluded with each other or plagiarised material from the Internet. Reports compiled by chief examiners for GCSE, A-level and vocational GNVQ courses also highlight concerns about over-generous marking and excessive assistance provided to pupils by their teachers. The complaints came from examiners for the Assessment and Qualifications Alliance (AQA) and Edexcel boards, which account for 75 per cent of the examinations taken by pupils. "

redorbit.com/news/science/35874/some_british_teachers_helping_students_cheat

Please, don't be hypocritical and don't tell us about morals. In Poland, students certainly don't cheat more, and you have no real proof that cheating is more accepted here. Przyganiał kocioł garnkowi - we would say ;)

Life / Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?! [155]


Maybe you could comment on the links that I posted, about U.S and U.K? And then we can talk about case of typical denial ;)


Sorry, but this is not what I call a "real proof". As you can see personal experience can be relative and biased. Yours, mine or his... doesn't matter. From now on, only hard proofs like researches, stats or reports should be used as arguments.


As for exams in college, I believe this depends on which college one attends, the same goes with cheating. Situation in the primary and secondary school is slightly different, because you have many little exams during the term, not one big (from every subject) like it is sometimes in college.

Anyway, as I recently posted, survey results from the Educational Testing Service and the Ad Council suggest that 75 percent to 98 percent of students cheat in American high school. I don't think we could beat that ;)

Talking about "cheating culture" in U.K: There is a major conspiracy of silence over this ... a culture has been created which sends the message that cheating is part and parcel of university life. In the 'customer-client culture', degrees are seen as something you pay for rather than something you have to learn. It's the new ethos of university life." Professor Frank Furedi, University of Kent

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/3852869.stm

Life / Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?! [155]


Sometimes experience is filtered through a biased or distorted view, and it makes you perceive and remember certain things in a certain way ;)

Life / Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?! [155]

First, you have to prove that cheating in Polish schools, is indeed accepted. When you prove it, you can try to answer the question. If you can't prove it, you shouldn't answer. As for now, we have only accusations, without any hard proofs.

Life / Why is cheating at schools in Poland accepted?! [155]

True, you have no obligation to be reasonable.

Life / Levi's Jean Size U.S. - Polish [20]

It seems to be 8 in 'Misses' and 11 in 'Junior' size .

usatourist.com/english/tips/Womens-Sizes.html


It depends how low cut ;). If you mean 'biodrówki' like this - yes.


Both are ok, straight leg is more universal, not all women like skinny leg jeans.

Travel / Poland wildlife and similar wild life where you live. [240]

It's green woodpecker.
He stays in Poland whole year. Beautiful bird :)

History / Adam Mickiewicz. What is his motherland: Poland or Lithuania? [93]


Here is a helpful quote from Mickiewicz, Books of the Polish Nation and its Pilgrimage:

Genealogy / Polish-Ukranian roots and genes [72]


'The Legendary Rus cities':


Orest Subtelny, Ukraine: a history, Toronto University Press- the book you recommended ;).


Kievan Rus wassparsely populated in comparison to western countries.


Paul Robert Magosci, A history of Ukraine, Toronto University Press

Another quote from Subtelny:



Ruthenians didn't differ much from other 'barbarians':


Vladimir I of Kiev
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_I_of_Kiev


The Crusades, Helen J. Nicholson, Greenwood

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]

Mickiewicz was 'Lithuanian' in the same way Piłsudski was (Józef also called himself a Lithuanian). It were 'Lithuanians' like them who wanted Wilno to be part of Poland after WW1.

Here is an interesting article written by an American Lithuanian:
lituanus.org/1977/77_1_01.htm


Looks like polish chauvinism ;)
Anyway, Mickiewicz probably had ruthenian/belarussian roots.

UK, Ireland / Britain... What the Poles did for us. [444]


Wrocław/Breslau/Vratislav was founded by Bohemian prince Vratislav I (and named after him), so it's Czech city :)

Genealogy / Polish-Ukranian roots and genes [72]


I'm glad that you've changed your mind. The number of population is irrelevant.


I don't think so called 'colonization' of Ukraine was state sponsored. It was free civilian migration to the sparsely populated areas.
And your magnates needed many hands to work the land. From where do you think they imported workforce? ;) Resettling of Ruthenian peasants would not have been enough.

Kievan Rus conquered a lot of land until 11th/12th century, including territories not inhabited by eastern Slavic tribes:




There are some interesting fragments in it. You wouldn't like it ;)


Subtelny doesn't give this information. It must be the peak of Kievan Rus' achievements.

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


Your 'elite' was similar.


'Polish chauvinism' heard from a Lithuanian mouth ('more primitive partner')? You simply don't want to accept that 'barbarian' Polish culture/identity was attractive enough to be preferred over others ;) EOT

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


I second that. Any source confirming that NKVD members dressed as UPA were responsible for (many) Polish deaths during Volhynian slaughter?


Would you answer these questions:
- Where have you read about children in Bereza?
- How many children and women died there (and according to whom)?
- '387 died' - isn't it taken from infamous Victor Idzio?

I hope you will answer, Nathan, though I suspect it will be hard for you.

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


I wonder what according to you happened in Volhynia. Your explanation 'from Kievan Rus to WW2 slaughter' is a little too vague. Would you say something similar in court, as an advocate of a Ukrainian who brutally murdered thousands of Poles?


Genocide isn't about numbers. You probably read this before:
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.


Who would dare to criticize those Ukrainian Angels? As long as they don't 'lie', they can sleep in peace.

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


You might as well say that Jews and Poles experienced genocide by Ukrainians for centuries.
In that definition 'destruction' should be understood as physical extermination.


Ok, but your explanation was vague and misleading nonetheless :) I hoped that you would try one more time.


Rather Poland: the bad, the worse, and the worst ;) Is the victim status of Ukrainians unchallengeable?


I don't care about their apologies, but they shouldn't complain when Poles criticize UPA.

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


;) Never mind. I just hoped for more 'detailed' explanation that would actually include words like: UPA and Volhynia; years 1943-1945. Thanks anyway.


Of course, I agree with that.

Genealogy / If your ancestors were in the "Wehrmacht"... [217]


He wasn't forced to 'glorify' Polish culture and write in Polish. It was his preference. Why do you want him to be Lithuanian and feel Lithuanian so badly? He had dual identity, just like many people in those times. He was a Lithuanian (his local identity) because of the place of birth, but could be Ruthenian as well. So which culture Mickiewicz family in fact abandoned – Ruthenian or Lithuanian? He didn't even differentiate clearly between Ruthenian and Baltic Lithuanian language, and Lithuanian nationalism was based on linguistic identity (by this criterion, Mickiewicz was Polish). How many generations has to pass before a Ruthenian becomes Lithuanian, and a Lithuanian becomes Polish?

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


Waldemar Lotnik – a young Pole in south-eastern Poland - chronicled with amazing clarity and insight his flight from organized Ukrainian nationalist terror in 1943 and his return for vengeance as a soldier in a Polish partisan unit in 1944/1945.


When it comes to Polish-Ukrainian relations during the war and the critical year 1943, you have only your own words, Nathan, not backed by any sources.

Aren't you interested in answering my questions #29?



You can add this to the list 'source needed'.


So what should have been done with those civilian 'enemies', their families, villages suspected of collaboration with AK? Weren't all Polish civilians potentially dangerous (civilian base), taking into consideration possibility of Polish uprising?

'to prevent fight of Ukrainians for independance' - an appropriate clarification. A bulk of UPA members were former Nazi policemen. In early 1944 UPA forces in several Western regions engaged in cooperation with the German Wehrmacht, Waffen SS, SiPo and SD etc.

Weren't Melnyk and Bulba also fighting for Ukrainian independence?



I don't cry, and don't want to throw peas at you/into the wall any more, just beware what you write.

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


A very good book about Józewski's rule: Timothy Snyder, Sketches from a Secret War: A Polish Artist's Mission to Liberate Soviet Ukraine, Yale University Press, 2005.

Ukrainian life in the inter-war Poland is often portrayed in one-sided way. As Snyder explains it: 'Soviet historians justified the Soviet annexation of Volhynia by portraying inter-war Polish policy as the exploitation of the honest Ukrainian peasant. Much of Ukrainian historiography has followed this line'.

- In the first decade of Polish rule, Polish authorities built 114 elementary schools and a high school, as well as three hospitals and ten public buildings. All important towns were electrified, and telephone service was introduced. The proportion of children in school increased from perhaps fifteen percent to more than seventy percent.

- The state subsidised local Ukrainian reading societies, which by 1937 had some five thousand chapters. The state also provided the capital for a Ukrainian cooperative network. The state-sponsored Ukrainian theatre presented national classics and national themes, and was on the road every weak a year.

- Józefski built a Ukrainian high-school and a Polish-Ukrainian technical school. Most Volhynian children, regardless of nationality, had some Ukrainian language in their schools. In 1933, there were 546 Polish schools with Ukrainian as a subject, and 530 bilingual schools. By 1936, more than two-thirds of Volhynian elementary schools had some Ukrainian component : either Ukrainian was taught as a mandatory subject in Polish schools (775 schools), or certain subjects were taught in Ukrainian in bilingual schools...

From encyclopediaofukraine.com:

The main centre of Shevchenko studies in the 1930s was the Ukrainian Scientific Institute in Warsaw, which published 13 volumes of a 16 volume set of the complete works of Shevchenko. The Soviet occupation of Poland put an end to the edition.

Doesn't seem like Ukrainian language and culture were forbidden.
As far as I know there was no 'pacification' in Volhynia.

Life / Polish Cartoons/ Legends [15]


Kubuś Puchatek

Chojrak
...

bajki-dla-dzieci.eu

100% Polish:

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


Why, according to you, UPA started murdering Poles in February/March 1943?


I know this wikipedia article. There is no need to quote it. You should just use appropriate/wiser words, otherwise one day we will learn from you that Bereza was a death camp for Ukrainian women and children, Poles forbade Ukrainians to speak in Ukrainian, and burnt Orthodox priests during 'pacification'. Mykhailo Hrushevsky, an early Ukrainian nationalists leader, is hardly objective source. Ukrainian life in the Interwar Poland was in shades of gray, not as black as some want to paint it.


The OUN terrorized Galicia too.


I wish you remember it.


That you should change your definition of 'enemy'.


There was no pacification in 'Volhynia'. You confuse 'pacification' with 're-vindication', which goal was to deprive the Orthodox of those churches that had been Greek Catholic before Orthodoxy was imposed by the tsarist Russian government.

About pacification:




UPA didn't murder Osadniks - almost all of them were deported to Syberia. They murdered Poles who lived in Volhynia for generations/hundreds of years, innocent civilians who didn't take part in 'wrong-doings' against Ukrainians. You simply apply collective responsibility.


Nathan, you offend Poles very often, even in this thread, so you shouldn't complain. Everyone has right to his/her opinion.


What are your mistakes?

History / just before the war the Polish/Ukrainian szlachta learned Ukrainian [243]


There is possibility that UPA planned to murder all the Poles in Volhynia, and in case of Galicia - wanted Poles 'only' to flee.
I think it can be treated as 'preemptive strike' in form of ethnic cleansing of civilians - in the OUN-B leaders' minds, Eastern Poland/Western Ukraine could have been contested again like in 1918-1919, with civilians being part of the conflict.

Nazis showed Banderists how to 'ethnic cleanse' when they murdered Jews in Volhynia with the help of future UPA members. OUN-B's admiration for Nazi ideology obviously made the decision easier.


The lists of professors were prepared for Nazis by Ukrainian students. Western Ukrainians had numerous chances to exact their revenge before...


Read the article you quote so many times once again, you interpret it freely. And still haven't answered my questions (about kids in Bereza, and NKVD members dressed as UPA during Volhynian massacres)

Real or imagined wrongs by Poles could have played a role in mobilizing/agitating local population. As to Banderists, if they were able to kill thousands of their fellow Ukrainians fighting for interdependence of Ukraine, why should they have had any scruples when it comes to murdering Poles.

History / Chance of Lwów once again became coming part of Poland [344]

Ukrainians don't want to be part of Poland, and it won't change in the future. I understand you want to acquire Lwów in peaceful way - it won't happen.