so hving troubles with finding CLEAn rolemodels is quite hard. BUT! For me it is quite important that they glorify UPA and Bandera for their struggle against Soviet Union (maybe even against Poland idk) and for the fight of a free Ukraine. I can't remember any UPA veteran to brag to young Ukrainians how he massacrated Poles and etc. (Correct me Nathan if im wrong)
You are correct, Mr Grunwald. War is a war and different things happened on both sides. UPA fought mostly Soviet NKWD and Germans, not Poles. It is a known fact that NKWD committed many atrocities on Poles in Wolyn' dressing themselves as Ukrainian soldiers to weaken Ukrainian resistance movement. Of course, there were Ukrainians, mostly regular people from countryside who had Poles deep in their livers, taking Pacification, Polonization, Sanation, Bereza Kartuska concentration camp (4500 Ukrainians imprisoned in 1939, 387 died, women and children as well) and strzelcy groups ravaging the villages in 1930s. Poles burnt Ukrainian churches and libraries, forbid usage of native language,... Are you surprised that there were people ready to put someone on a pitchfork when Germans, Russians were ripping apart country and Poles were mentioning the "happy" pre-war paradise coming true as soon as the war is over? Photos some mention here with 3 kids tied with a barbed wire was long ago proved to be done by a gypsy mother on her own kids - nothing to do with Ukrainians. Some try to blow things out of proportion.
They realised that people in their villages held it against them not to speak Ukrainian.
Krysia, nobody held Poles against their language. Look at the policy of your country in pre-war period and what it did with Ukrainian language. Also osadniki - Polish soldiers veterans were settled in Wolyn' in 1930s with their families on lands taken away from Ukrainian landowners. Guess what happened to Ukrainian churches in Wolyn:
Any accusation was strong enough for a particular church to be confiscated and handed over to the Roman Catholic church. The goal of the two so called "revindication campaigns" was to deprive the Orthodox of those churches that had been Greek Catholic before Orthodoxy was imposed by the tsarist Russian government. 190 Orthodox churches were destroyed (some of the destroyed churches were abandoned and 150 more were forcibly transformed into Roman Catholic (not Greek Catholic) churches.
The attitude of Ukrainians of that time is well shown in the statements by Ukrainian historian Mykhailo Hrushevsky, who noted negative influence of Polish policies on the Ukrainian culture: "the four centuries of Polish rule had left particularly destructive effects (...) economic and cultural backwardness in Galicia was the main "legacy of historical Poland, which assiduously skimmed everything that could be considered the cream of the nation, leaving it in a state of oppression and helplessness".
But I have this sand in my eye
It seems like in Poland you have a lot of deserts, many Poles have sand in their eyes. It is time to take it out like Ukrainians did long ago.
I'd like to see something positive. Ideas, Nathan? (POSITIVE)
Krysia, as far as I see there are pretty healthy relations between our countries. There are also some historical feuds, though. Poles are not happy with Stepan Bandera and UPA. I am not happy with Pilsudski, Dmowski, Polish terror in 1920-30s. So? Wouldn't it be better to watch in our own backyards instead. It is difficult to say too much POSITIVE after you Krysia falsely accused Ukrainians in tying children with barbed wires. Reconciliation starts with understanding, if this is what you are looking for. Without frankly looking into the mirror and objectively analyzing oneself, there is nothing that can change this retarded hatred that still is alive. I am all for normal life like, no doubt, you are and many others.
Tell me, Krysia, what you see that has to be done to make it better.
they look to her like a blood-thirsty Ukrainian.
I am one of them. When I see a Pole, I look on his (preferably her;) neck, pulsating artery full of sweet Polish blood and just wait the sunset. Hmm...Delicious..
So, Polish people visiting Ukraine are well received now?
Nope, they are eaten alive as soon as they cross the border.
I suspected Nathan to be one or at last a son of someone from Bandera bunch!
I wish I was. It would be a great honor.
I don't hate him
I knew you love me :)