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Posts by Bobko  

Joined: 13 Mar 2017 / Male ♂
Last Post: 4 hrs ago
Threads: Total: 28 / Live: 24 / Archived: 4
Posts: Total: 2863 / Live: 2787 / Archived: 76
From: New York
Speaks Polish?: A
Interests: reading, camping

Displayed posts: 2811 / page 55 of 94
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Bobko   
29 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

I have been reading up, recently, on the life of Wojciech Jaruzelski, the former head of the Polish People's Republic.

In many ways, it is a tragic history - unfortunately - and one deeply connected with my country. I'm surprised that more Russians do not know the story of this man.

Jaruzelski was born in 1923, in a family of the Polish aristocracy with roots going back to the 15th century. His grandpa was a member of the Polish uprising in 1863-64, and for this was sent by the Tsar to ten years of exile in Siberia. After Poland gained independence, his father served as a volunteer in the Polish army during the Polish-Soviet War. Indeed, his father had many reasons to fight for Poland, as a very large landowner.

A young Jaruzelski attended a Catholic gymanasium, and all indicators probably pointed at a successful career as a lawyer or businessman. However, then Germany invaded, and shortly after - the Soviet Union. The Jaruzelski family fled to Lithuania, which soon also came under Soviet occupation. Him and his family were sent into exile in Siberia, his father assigned to a labor camp.

From an interview with Jaruzelski:

«Глядя уже из ссыльного вагона на советских солдат-охранников в ненавистных мне тогда шинелях чужой армии, с винтовками на плечах, мне и в голову не могло прийти, что вскоре вместе с солдатами в точно таких же, как и у них, гимнастерках и шинелях, одетый, правда, в новенькую польскую форму, я попаду на войну. С такой же винтовкой бить гитлеровцев, освобождать Польшу, Варшаву...».

Translation:

"Looking out of that exile train car, at the Soviet soldiers guarding us, wearing the despised uniforms of a foreign army, with rifles on their shoulders, I could never have imagined, that soon - with soldiers just like these - in Russian style uniform, but remade in Polish fashion, I would be thrown into the war. With a rifle just like that, to fight Hitlerites, to liberate Poland, Warsaw...".

In Siberia, Jaruzelski father died in 1942 - shortly after being released from the GULAG. To support his family, a young Jaruzelski had to work as a mover and a lumberjack in the taiga of the Altay.

Later, Jaruzelski ended up being exiled himself. To a labor camp in Karaganda, in Soviet Kazakhstan. In Kazakhstan, Jaruzelski permanently ruined his back, as well as his eyes. This is why he always wore the sunglasses, which earned him the nickname of "Welder" from the Poles.

Despite all these insults, humiliations, and abuse that the Jaruzelski family experienced in the USSR, despite all the historical trauma that exists between our two countries, his personal attitude towards Russians always remained respectful.

Quote:

«Когда мы жили в Сибири, одна из знакомых россиянок спросила как-то: "А где ваш отец?" Говорю: "В лагере". "Ну, - отвечает, - это товарищ Сталин не знает..." Таков менталитет российского народа, для которого существует хороший царь и плохие бояре. Нужно знать этот народ, чтобы понять его. И я понимаю. Нельзя, чтобы действия каких-нибудь подлецов, которых можно найти в каждой стране, бросали тень на весь народ, который сам стал первой жертвой сталинизма. Одно могу сказать о россиянах - героический, но очень многострадальный народ...»

"When we lived in Siberia, one of our Russian acquaintances once asked us: "And where is your father?". I told her: "He's in a camp." "Well," - she answered - "Comrade Stalin does not know this." Such is the mentality of the Russian people, for whom there exists a kind Tsar and rotten nobility. You need to know this people, to understand it. And I do understand it. We must not allow, the actions of various miscreants, which can be found in every country, to throw shade on an entire people, which became the first victim of Stalinism. I can say one thing about the Russian - they are a heroic and long-suffering people." "When we lived in Siberia, one of our Russian acquaintances once asked us: "And where is your father?". I told her: "He's in a camp." "Well," - she answered - "Comrade Stalin does not know this." Such is the mentality of the Russian people, for whom there exists a kind Tsar and rotten nobility. You need to know this people, to understand it. And I do understand it. We must not allow, the actions of various miscreants, which can be found in every country, to throw shade on an entire people, which became the first victim of Stalinism. I can say one thing about the Russian - they are a heroic and long-suffering people."

I think this is enough for one post about Jaruzelski.


  • 165pxWojciech_Jaruz.jpg
Bobko   
27 Dec 2023
News / Poland - A True Bastion and Defender of Free Speech [250]

I insulted others, too

Kania - you have to give him this. He is the quintessential equal opportunity offender.

Novichok is the Nietzsche of PF.

Name the top three. Make sure they are exclusive to Poland.

And who wrote the rule book that says that such things must be decided on such criteria? Why can this benchmark not be subjective?

Regardless - I will attempt:

1) Whether in art, literature, or music - amongst the Slavs the only comparison is amongst the Poles. As a Russian, I am conditioned to see in Poles traitorous schemers. However, as an objective human being, I can see that they wrote some good things, composed some good music, and made some good painters. More so, it resonates with me deeply - in my Russian soul. Some piece of Slavicness that my DNA discarded historically, through unuse, presented back to me in the raw.

2) Polish courage - up there with the Spartans. No Russian will say Poles are cowards. Morons, idiots, Western poodles - but not cowards.

3) Polish sense of freedom. There is a reason Kosciusko is such a hero in America. There's a reason Poles played such a role in the Russian Revolution. There's a reason you live in Illinois. Though we try to stamp it out, it's cause of great respect still.
Bobko   
27 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Best posters [886]

@Torq

You are very kind. I am but the padawan.

In Christmas spirit, let me say that every single poster on this board (except Sralec), is a cherished tenant of my brain.

I wish all of you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Let's make a little more kind the life of this world in this coming year.
Bobko   
27 Dec 2023
News / Poland - A True Bastion and Defender of Free Speech [250]

Life is short. I have a right to spend the best way I can.

It is your right...

However, I can't help but agree with Kania. It's hard to watch.

You come from a unique country. I don't mean Poland, but America. So maybe your attitude can be forgiven, because what you are doing is the essence of the American project. That is, you are a good immigrant. An excellent immigrant - maybe....

But love for Patria is sacred. And there is so much in Poland to fall in love with.
Bobko   
27 Dec 2023
History / Pol-Shorpy Photo Thread [950]

This is because those were peasant-worker eagles unlike today's bourgeois-monarchist eagles sporting golden crowns

"Peasant worker eagles" - hehehehe!
Bobko   
23 Dec 2023
Life / What do Poles really think about cats? [470]

I asked ChatGPT to answer why Poles love cats so much, and to put it into a historical context. Here is the result:

**The Unlikely Love Affair: Why Poles Adore Cats Despite a Complicated History**

In a nation that has weathered Russian partitions, the Polish-Soviet War, World War II, and the chilling embrace of the Cold War, one might wonder: What's the deal with Polish people and cats? Surprisingly, this feline affection persists, defying the odds of historical tumult.

Could it be a coping mechanism, a silent rebellion against the upheavals of the past? Poles, known for their resilience in the face of adversity, apparently found solace in the purring companionship of these enigmatic creatures. After all, what better way to thumb your nose at geopolitical chaos than by adopting a nonchalant attitude-much like a cat's indifference to human concerns.

Perhaps, in times of hardship, Poles sought refuge in the feline mystique, secretly believing that a cat's proverbial nine lives could be the ultimate insurance policy against historical calamities. Who wouldn't want an ally that can outlast partitions, wars, and geopolitical intrigues?

In an ironic twist, the very creatures that supposedly have nine lives found favor in a country that, despite historical setbacks, continues to stand resilient. It's almost as if Poles are saying, "If we can survive all that, so can a cat."

So, the next time you witness a Pole lavishing attention on their feline companion, remember that it's not just a cat-it's a living embodiment of historical endurance and a symbol of the unwavering spirit that has carried Poland through the trials of time. After all, nothing says, "We've been through a lot, but we're still here," quite like sharing your home with a whiskered confidant. Meow-sive respect, Poland.

Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

Not to my ear

Ya you told me about the similarities with чваныки.

It doesn't sound very intelligent... but that's because it has an agrarian origination. Maybe Ukrainian is the true depository of "folk speak".
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

accent and the melody

My god...

From my ex and every Ukrainian I ever met I had to listen to how Ukrainian is "the second most melodic language after Italian."

Please do not compare melodicity of the two languages, because you are hurting Ukrainian national ego.

I admit, I sometimes like to listen to it. It's a warm language. Grown men, covered with gunpowder marks and mud, speaking Ukrainian - suddenly sound like teddy bears.

For the same reason it's childish and retarded.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

@Torq

It definitely sounds Ukrainian to us.

I realize this is because Ukrainian borrows so heavily from Polish.

All the шановный, дякуе, мае рацию, размовляти etc type stuff.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

Somewhere, once, I heard that Dutch sounds like a drunk Englishman trying to speak German.

To Russians, Ukrainian sounds like someone is from the farm, and has had much to drink.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

It could help if both try to communicate in high german

Yes, it helps when people speak the Great Russian.

If they use their silly southern or western dialects, like Ukrainian or Belarusian - things become more difficult.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
History / Famous Russian Poles [243]

he must have died there

Well, I certainly hope not.

I hope he finally opened the restaurant business he always spoke about, and is simply too busy to write here.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

Officially! :)

I have a friend from Saxony, that speaks fluent Russian, and he tells me it is probably easier for a Russian to understand a Belarusian, than it is for a person from Dresden to understand someone from the southern mountains.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
History / Famous Russian Poles [243]

Russian Czarina Catherine II was of Sorbian origin, von Anhalt-Zerbst (Serbian)-Dornburg... and, her lover was Polish Stanisław Poniatowski who was real love machine and she gave him Polish throne

I miss Crow.

Even more, Dzerzhinskiy was Russian too

Kostya was much more worldly in 2008.
Bobko   
21 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

I can see all the difficulties and impossibilities of it. But still... it is such a lovely idea in itself.

You feel as a German felt in the beginning of the 19th century.

However, Germany managed this process - somehow. Bavarian, Swabian, Rhinelander, and Prussian were joined. Mutant Swiss and Austrians managed to skip out - but the majority managed to unite.

Of course, for the world, the results of German unification were a little bit scary. Maybe, the results of Slavic unification will be scary as well - but they'll get over it.
Bobko   
20 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

Don't you have anything more substantial to support Russian megalomania?

I thought I was trying to find authors who spoke about the condition of the Russian soul.

For this, I have another book - it's closer to Yerofeev than Tyutchev - and you should enjoy it I would think.

It's «Географ Глобус Пропил», or "The Geographer Drank His Globe Away" by Alexei Ivanov.

It's a book that came out in the early 2000s.

----

Returning to your question... I'm not sure I can think of too many books that talk about Russia's special place in the world. I mean - classics. Of course, you could go and read Dugin all day - and it will probably be nothing but Russia's uniqueness - but I suspect it's not very good reading.

Tyutchev came to mind immediately because of his poem about how Russia could not be understood with the mind. But also, because he was a militant pan-Slavist, who along with his buddies fought tooth and nail against Western influences in Russian literature and art. Him, and others like Aksakov and Khomyakov saw Russia as a bulwark against a "rotting Europe", and thought it had a special role in uniting all the Slavic peoples. Read those guys, and you will get megalomania to your heart's content.

However, it's important to note that even then, Russian panslavists were to a great extent receiving their inspiration from Poles. Poland had a diverse panslavist space, which was closely tracked by Russian thinkers. Split between whether or not Russia would act as the unifier, or a resurgent Poland - it was the epicenter of megalomania ;)

On the pro-Russian side you had Stanisław Staszic and August Cieszkowski, and on the pro-Polish side Adam Mickiewicz and Kazimierz Brodziński.

The bottom line, my friend, is that even when Russian megalomania was peaking, it was drawing inspiration from Poland. So you may have us beat there.
Bobko   
19 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

Chekov in the new Star Trek is adorable :)):

Yes, making jokes about how Russian cosmonauts always f*ck **** up, and then responsible Americans have to fix it.

We seen it.

Armageddon was one movie. I think in that movie they discovered a drunk and crazy Russian cosmonaut roaming around alone in the MIR station. Very funny.

As*holes.
Bobko   
19 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

It doesn't matter - they're positive characters

I'd much rather have the Polish stereotype of a friendly neighborhood alcoholic. Maybe occasional wife beater. At least as depicted in American film.

Some guy named Krasinski is much better received in America than a guy named Krasinskov.
Bobko   
19 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

"Red Heat"

The movie is a walking meme. Highly recommend.

Even in your examples, Russians are always military, hacking, or being all suspicious.

How about a movie with chill and funny Russians?

HBO's "Barry" has some of that, but I'm not really a fan of the show in general.
Bobko   
19 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

This sentence is worthless without a recommendation (author, title, year).

I will not be original, and will recommend the Russian poet and diplomat Fyodor Ivanovich Tyutchev. The author of these famous lines:

Who would grasp Russia with the mind?
For her no yardstick was created:
Her soul is of a special kind,
By faith alone appreciated.


Though a contemporary of guys like Lermontov and Pushkin, he doesn't seem to be as well known outside the CIS.

He didn't write "books", unfortunately, but he wrote many poems. The years I would recommend are between 1820 and 1840. Before, he is still too young and romantic, and in the period afterwards he doesn't write anymore about the subject at hand. By that point, he's a big deal - and writes about geopolitics - BORING!

All the poems are worth reading, but I might try "Silentium" first.
Bobko   
19 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

is this unrealistic and exaggerated opinion that they seem to hold about their own significance and importance in the grand scheme of things

Oh my god - spare my ribs!

You are looking at your reflection in the mirror.

And it is not just my opinion

And you think I simply hallucinated the facts about the metaphysical nature of Russians? I almost want to say - "Read a book!"
Bobko   
19 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

Russia has a very suppressive society that leads to greater need for expressing their feelings, opinions in many shapes and forms

I think this is spot on.
Bobko   
19 Dec 2023
Off-Topic / Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa [414]

It is also the peak of what a human being can reach

Haha, you son of a b*tch. You know I cannot agree with this.

To be Russian, means to be connected to the Big Bang and to experience the Tao of the Universe. A Russian exists on two planes simultaneously, as one Russian rock artist who died tragically said - the spiritual and the war on Earth.

...is an acquired taste.

This is my most secret doubt - I suppose. So many years spent in Ukrainian and Polish spaces has not made me hate them more, as I expected, but to gain a certain appreciation.

Sometimes I watch some Ukrainian explain something about the war, and I think - "Man, why don't we have more guys like this on our side." This is a difficult thing to explain to my fellow compatriots....

Let's put the West aside for a second - there is certainly something in Poland and Ukraine that is very interesting.