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What should Russia and Poland do to become if not friends, then at least not enemies?


trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #1
Hello, just would like to hear the opinion of the Poles (ordinary people, not politicians), how can Russia and Poland develop good-neighborly relations, what should Russia and Poland do?

Thank you



gumishu 11 | 5,012
20 Aug 2017  #2
Russia should stop pushing around aka being imperialistic, Poland has no beef with Russia when it doesn't push around
G (undercover)
20 Aug 2017  #3
Russia should withdraw behind the Urals.
gumishu 11 | 5,012
20 Aug 2017  #4
let's be realistic G
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #5
@G (undercover)

If russia withdraw behind the Urals, who will live in this territory?
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #6
I think media plays a big role in shaping the image, for the sake of political motives
gumishu 11 | 5,012
20 Aug 2017  #7
do you mean Polish or Russian media trzy kola?
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #8
gumishu

Both, on the one hand, Russia has not forgotten the loss of the Soviet Union, on the other, unfortunately the Polish is not free to take independent movements
gumishu 11 | 5,012
20 Aug 2017  #9
unfortunately the Polish is not free to take independent movements

what do you actually mean by that
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #10
Now there is a struggle for the European trading market between Russia and the U S, where gas from Russia is much cheaper than liquefied from the U S...

Poland refused to transit Russian gas several years ago, having lost millions of euros in the budget. I'm not a politician, but if you have a reasonable explanation why pay more for gas?
gumishu 11 | 5,012
20 Aug 2017  #11
Poland refused to transit Russian gas several years ago

where did you get it from? Russian media?
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #12
Yes, it was a version of Russian media, I could not find it in the European news, do you have any information on this?
gumishu 11 | 5,012
20 Aug 2017  #13
I could not find it in the European news, do you have any information on this?

you couldn't find it in European media because it is simply not true - Poland is happy to be a transit country for Russian gas - it's Russia who is trying to circumvent Poland and this is why it has built NordStream, Opal and is set on building NordStream2

Poland wants to diversify it's gas sources not to be prone to Russian gas blackmail

when Yamal pipeline was the only one Russian gas could reach Germany Poland was safe to receive it's own bought share - now we are vulnerable - (well not so vulnerable after building of the LNG sea terminal in Świnoujście)
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #14
@gumishu

I absolutely agree with you that Russia uses gas supplies for political reasons, but if gas can come to Poland from Germany, which is the leading country in the European Union, then what is the danger for the Polish? And what do you think Russia pursues after building gas pipelines to Germany?
gumishu 11 | 5,012
20 Aug 2017  #15
but if gas can come to Poland from Germany,

we are currently not on very friendly terms with Germany and I wouldn't rely on them at all - that's first - secondly there is no infrastructure (at the moment) in place to pump gas FROM Germany to Poland even if they would be willing to act as a transit country for Poland

one of the possible scenarios for Poland if it doesn't diversify gas supplies would be hiking of the gas prices by Russia (which are already very high - Germany pays substantially less for their gas from Russia) - Poland doesn't need to buy all it's gas in America, it only needs it as a reserve supply to keep the pressure on Russian gas prices
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #16
@gumishu

What do you think is better for Poland: to stay in the European Union, be independent or something else?

The European Commission can impose sanctions against Poland because of judicial reform, is it true?

If it correct : Last year, Poland launched the LNG terminal, and gas supplies from Russia increased by almost a quarter?
The break-even price for American LNG in Poland is $ 266, while Russian gas costs Poles at $ 195-213
For gas from the Middle East, Poland has to pay $ 319-350.
Ironside 48 | 9,748
20 Aug 2017  #17
how can Russia and Poland develop good-neighborly relations

I'm afraid the onus is on Russia. I think there is no much they can do being from 1850 onwards a bureaucratic empire. They use to say that Prussia doesn't has military but the Prussian Army has a country.

Paraphrasing: Russian bureaucracy has a country and act in the short sided interest of it and damn the rest.

IF they change their paradigm, especially in their foreign policy, that would help immensely to improve relation with Poland.
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #18
@Ironside

About the bureaucratic empire-that's for sure, there are still too many bureaucrat-corrupt officials in Russia since the times of the Soviet Union, apparently the generation must change, so that something will change in this.
In Russia, once they tried to change everything quickly, which led to the civil war of 1917, millions of dead and dead in the camps, as a result of which the Russian empire disintegrated and the Soviet Union appeared, which of them was better for the Polish, I think the second, since the Polish became independent.
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #19
I'm not a communist, but somebody explain to me why in a civilized country like Poland, they are demolishing monuments to Russian soldiers?
What is the threat to Poland?
G (undercover)
20 Aug 2017  #20
they are demolishing monuments to Russian soldiers?

Do you have, in Russia, monuments to the German soldiers ?
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #21
Do you think the Russians are enemies of the Polish people?
mafketis 20 | 7,245
20 Aug 2017  #22
the Soviet Union, apparently the generation must change, so that something will change in this.

Nothing will change. Russia has had the same system for hundreds of years, absolute rule by a big man (whether tsar, party chairman or whatever title Putin has at present), supported by a coterie of ogligarchs, a suffocating bureaucracy and no concern for the masses (who cannot envision any system beyond supporting whatever big man is in power at the moment). There are brief periods of unrest between different big-man-in-charge systems but the overall pattern remains the same....
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #23
@mafketis-Nothing will change

There was once the great First Rzeczpospolita from the Latin "res publica" (republic) - this is the name of the territories of the Polish Crown and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. This huge republic included central-eastern Poland, three-quarters of Ukraine, all Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, part of Estonia, Russia, Moldova and Slovakia.

As when Poland was divided between Prussia, Austria and Russia your people believed in the independence and prosperity of the Polish, and the Russians believe that they will live better

Times change, no one knows, maybe Poland will be a country example for the rest in development.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
20 Aug 2017  #24
Do you think the Russians are enemies of the Polish people?

Invaded Poland three times in the last hundred years. Occupied Poland for decades. Committed genocide when they invaded in 1939.

Very recently practised a nuclear attack on Warsaw. Stationed nuclear missiles close to Warsaw

So, yes.
mafketis 20 | 7,245
20 Aug 2017  #25
There was once the great First Rzeczpospolita fr

When Poles control their own affairs, the model is (flawed) democracy. When Russians control their own affairs the model is a big man absolute leader.

The surface changes, the water underneat remains the same.
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #26
@peterweg
Invaded Poland three times in the last hundred years

A very good example of the relationship between Germany and Russia, despite the fact that because of the war with Germany, Russia has lost 20 million people they have a good relationship and they do not constantly talk about the occupation and do not demand any compensation, because there is no more Hitler and Stalin, you need to look to the future, once to sit down and agree, otherwise they will hate each other, but what's the point?

You propose to wait another 100 years, why the Polish does not want to be smarter, let them offer their own version of the solution of all the issues and state officially - "these are our conditions"
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #27
@peterweg
Very recently practised a nuclear attack on Warsaw. Stationed nuclear missiles close to Warsaw

As far as i know:
The deployment of US missile defense systems in Romania and Poland grossly violates the Treaty on medium and shorter-range missiles.

If you have any other information?
OP trzy kola 1 | 39
20 Aug 2017  #28
@mafketis
When Poles control their own affairs

Do you believe that the Poles control their own affairs?

P.S. But the meaning of your words is clear to me and here I agree with this
Crow 137 | 7,632
20 Aug 2017  #29
What? I don`t know and I think that Anglos, Germanics and Franks won`t allow development of any kind of normal relationship between Poland and Russia. And they have instruments to affect that relationship
peterweg 36 | 2,316
20 Aug 2017  #30
If you have any other information?

Yeah.

Thats bullshit.

A very good example of the relationship between Germany and Russia, despite the fact that because of the war with Germany, Russia has lost 20 million people they have a good relationship and they do not constantly

Germany has admitted its guilt and would never do the same thing again. Russia on the other hand is deluded about its past and is even today attempting to rebuild its Empire by re-invading and occupying its neighbours and throwing our direct threats of nuclear annihilation to anyone who dares to cross it. Also neither of the former allies were innocent, both started the war with the 1939 invasion of Poland

because there is no more Hitler and Stalin,

Really, there looks like a Stalin in the Kremlin today, with the full support of its rabid population.


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