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What should Russia and Poland do to become if not friends, then at least not enemies?


Slavictor 7 | 195
29 Mar 2018  #151
Poland can defend itself from Russia by not becoming an intentional target, which it is as a NATO member. I've written before in two other threads that Washington has intended for years to conduct a Nuclear first strike against Russia. They needed excuses to ring Russia with ABM's, so they invented them. The West broke promises, unilaterally, of "not expanding one inch further East" and of the Nuclear non-proliferation treaty. Washingtons' treatment of Russia is one of constant insults, taunts and provocations.

Russia's new missile systems are far superior to anything the West has. Unlike the West's massive military expenses, with 900+ bases around the World, Russia concentrated on effective systems where they would do the most good in a defensive posture. The ABM system that Polish taxpayers have just bought will be rendered essentially useless. Poland will be vaporized.

Russia is not the problem for Poland. The entrenched interests of Washington are. The parasites. The dealmakers. Russia is the Worlds' largest country with multiple time zones and already feeds Europe the lifeblood it needs, in peace. It has everything it needs in the modern era to survive on it's own. It does not want a war with anybody but it is being pushed into one on purpose. The war will be nuclear and it will spell the end of existence. I am not Russia, so get that. I've never been there and have nothing to do with it. HOWEVER, I am aware of the West's plans and their motivations. That is why I have come back to this forum after 3 years away.
jon357 63 | 14,110
29 Mar 2018  #152
Russia.

In a way, Russia is its own worst enemy. There have been so many outrages, so much pushing of the boundaries by them that they have lost a lot of friends. The chemical weapons attack on civilians in Europe was evidently the last straw. 29 countries expelling over 120 dodgy 'diplomats' has sent them a message that they're finding it hard to answer.
Crow 137 | 7,517
30 Mar 2018  #153
You think 29 USA and British satellites, protectorates and non-defined territories. That you mean?

Let us speak truth on this forum. Let Anglos like you stop to f*** Poles in the brain.
ShockedInPoland
30 Mar 2018  #154
Poland can defend itself from Russia by not becoming an intentional target, which it is as a NATO member

Typical Russian rubbish.

Russia's military doctrine is to destroy neutral countries by nuclear attack. This is to prevent them siding with the enemy, gaining from Russias post war weakness and simply because weak countries can be eliminated cheaply.

NATO membership wasn't responsible for the Russian invasions in 1919, 1939 and 1945.

Russia practices for invasion of Poland that involves a nuclear attack on Warsaw , any attack on the west would of course go through Poland. NATO member or not.

So please go **** yourself.
ShockedInPoland
30 Mar 2018  #155
Russians first nukes USA and British troop transports and warships and then USA retaliate on

Crow, this isn't how Russia would behave. Britain has nuclear missiles aboard it's submarines. Russia will not attack a nuclear armed nation with nuclear weapons. Neither will Britain and America.

The only countries Russia will nuke are defenseless countries.
Nuclear Sharing makes it unclear who is non nuclear because the agreement allows countries like
Germany and Belgium to use nuclear weapons.

Russia will not take on NATO, even in a conventional war because it would lose and the gains are not worth it. Similarly NATO will never attack because any thing worth having in Russia is for sale and a military invasion is impossible to implement.
Crow 137 | 7,517
30 Mar 2018  #156
Russia will not attack a nuclear armed nation with nuclear weapons. Neither will Britain and America.

don`t tell me. It was simulation by British guardian. I just shared info.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
30 Mar 2018  #157
One day all slavic gopniks will unite and liberate europe from the clutches of brussels forced multiculturalism.
Crow 137 | 7,517
30 Mar 2018  #158
One can die waiting for Slavs to unite.

So, I think that Serbians won`t wait for all Slavs to unite. Actually, they already, step by step, liberates themselves. All are welcome to help. Other Slavs and non-Slavs. Some already helping.
Slavictor 7 | 195
31 Mar 2018  #159
Would you say that arguing and complaining is the Slavic way? My Dad has always said this.

@ShockedInPoland
Your arguments or continued attitude make no sense today. Russians fear war. That is why they are counterpunchers. Russia wants a seat at the bargaining table, that's all. If Russia wanted to wipe out Poland it would have done that long ago. Why keep selling Poland gas? If Russia wanted to "invade" the Ukraine and take Kiev, that would take under a week and probably less. Unlike Washington, Russia is interested in trade, not uni-lateral domination.
Crow 137 | 7,517
31 Mar 2018  #160
You said great truth here. Hungary and Serbia are best proof of it. Russian relations with China, Japan, India, Brazil, etc world players are also proof to it. Trade with Russians, talk to them, don`t try to isolate them, don`t try to exterminate and assimilate them, don`t cut their trade routes and you can believe in whatever God you want, chose whatever other trade partners you want, choose even your own politics. Its all fine with them. Only business matters. At least somewhat fair business.

Western Europe and USA? First, they subdue you and then you have feeling to exist only to serve them.
Velund 1 | 376
31 Mar 2018  #161
Russia's military doctrine is to destroy neutral countries by nuclear attack.

You are either stupid, either paid troll.

Russian military doctrine includes use of nuclear weapons in response to nuclear attack or in response to a massive attack with conventional weapons, that endangers existence of state. Nothing more, but no less.

"Perimeter" system, known as "dead hand" on the West is one more thing that make someone ill by their existence. If someone will succeed to vaporize Kremlin and major command centers, missiles will be launched automagically.

So, neutral country that does not try to attack Russia is most likely not in danger. Country that present their territory for a third party weapons turned against Russia - deserves to have their military bases and strategic targets programmed to missile flight plans.

Purchase of "Patriots" by Poland is one of the most stupid things I can imagine (if I would be polish taxpayer). $5bn for not the best anti-missile system, plus yearly maintenance expenses - and there is no russian missiles potentially targeted against Poland that really can be shot down by this "Patriots". Quasi-ballistic missiles like "Iskander" is not the target for current "Patriots". But "Patriots" WILL be targets for "Iskanders", and in case of attack from NATO side, "Patriots" will be destroyed by a first strike, just before start of ICBMs for a response strike to a targets in NA.

In fact, purchase of "Patriots" is a sort of "danegeld", paid to US - because in fact this systems will protect US from older ICBMs that will never be targeted to Poland. And control a polish-owned "Patriots" from NATO is not the much worse than owning of the same "Patriots" by US itself, just $5bn will be taken from Poland to put them on their territory and become a first victims in case of a big war.
jon357 63 | 14,110
31 Mar 2018  #162
Russian military doctrine includes use of nuclear weapons

They know very well that if they tried to use one even once, all their major cities would be ash and rubble. Mutually assured destruction.

Purchase of "Patriots" by Poland is o

Any country close to Russia, one of the most unpleaant and aggressive regimes on earth, needs a robust military.
Crow 137 | 7,517
31 Mar 2018  #163
Islamists making final move against Serbians. This would literally force Poland and Russia to coordinate in order to support us.

Come to us brothers. Old Sarmatian core is calling you. Racowie are in the midst of battle!
Velund 1 | 376
31 Mar 2018  #164
needs a robust military.

$5bn worth of anti-tank missiles with mobile launchers and battlefield anti-air systems would be much better purchase, if you plan to purchase something to protect Poland as well, not solely United States.
jon357 63 | 14,110
1 Apr 2018  #165
would be much better purchase,

The best purchase of all would not be military; it would be investment in technology to eliminate the need for gas imports.
Velund 1 | 376
1 Apr 2018  #166
it would be investment in technology to eliminate the need for gas imports.

AFAIK, there is a de-facto ban for new nuclear power plants in EC? Poland have some plans to change this?

I ask it because there is little chance to buy a perpetuum mobile, and fracking tech used to release shale gas can end up with purchasing bottled drinking water from Russia for the same money that Poland previously spent for siberian natural gas.
jon357 63 | 14,110
1 Apr 2018  #167
AFAIK, there is a de-facto ban for new nuclear power plants in EC? Poland have some plans to change this?

There are several proposals for new nuclear plants as well as development of existing ones in Europe at the moment.

I ask it because there is little chance to buy a perpetuum mobile,

No need for one of those; thre is quite a range of options, and as you know the role of Russia in supplying gas to Central Europe is decreasing, just as their role in supplying minerals to Chinese manufacturers is also decreasing.
Crow 137 | 7,517
1 Apr 2018  #168
Poles and Russians shall all turn to Serbs to learn and incorporate concept of SLAVA in your ways of Christianity. Nothing will change, Catholics would remain Catholics and Orthodox would remain Orthodox. Just, you would all have one icon at the walls of your houses. On icon would be your chosen Christian saint that will be your chosen connection to Svetovid and your oldest ancestors.

That, or you shell all perish and become Semites.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
1 Apr 2018  #169
$5bn worth of anti-tank missiles with mobile launchers and battlefield anti-air systems would be much better purchase

You obviously don't understand what Patriot is or is capable of. Its a long and medium range anti-aircraft misssile defense sytem with some capablities of destroying incoming ballistic missiles.

Long range is around 300km. As such its useless at defending any other country than Poland. Its may be able to shootdown Russian missiles during launch phase from Kaliningrad but Iskander has a range of 500km and will be aimed squarely at Poland not America.

Patriot is therefore very much a battlefield defense system as it would protect Poland's army and more importantly its cites and airfileds against EXISTING nuclear missiles aimed at Poland today.

As for antitank missiles, Poland has Rosomak IFV's many equiped with Spike LR anti-tank missiles, plus a planned purchase of large amounts of anti-tank weapons of various sorts to add to the thousands of Spike ATM's they already possess.
Velund 1 | 376
1 Apr 2018  #170
You obviously don't understand what Patriot is or is capable of.

Somewhat understand. While I did not seen that ERINT missiles planned to be shipped under a current contract, it can be provided by NATO channels at any time, as well as interoperating THAAD launchers to complement the system (it was promised to complete integration of THAAD in 2 years). Located close to Belarussian border, it will become a threat to almost anything, launched from western part of Russia.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
1 Apr 2018  #171
The patriot system couldnt even catch a salvo of homemade volcano missles launched by houthis at Saudi Arabia's capital and Poles think this system is going to protect us from Russian missles? Please..... not only is this a total waste of money but it angers Putin. If russia and nato go to war its poland that will.be destroyed yet again not russia not germany not us etc.
Slavictor 7 | 195
1 Apr 2018  #172
Here's what the Polish taxpayer just bought, or rather what the arms merchants just sold them via Polands' Washington obeying leadership:

qz.com/1240887/the-patriot-missile-interceptor-doesnt-work-but-raytheon-still-makes-billions

This situation is reminiscent of a scene from the original film Robocop: "I had a guaranteed military sale with ED 209 - renovation program, spare parts for twenty-five years... Who cares if it worked or not?"

Poland should attempt to adopt a position closer to that of Switzerland; neutrality. It's never done that before(?). Concentrate on defending it's borders and equip with hardware biased for ground defense only. Arm all Polish citizens. Behind every blade of grass let there be a rifle.

Poland out of NATO. Return the junk they just bought and ditch any other ABM's lying around. Get the Americans out of there.
Velund 1 | 376
1 Apr 2018  #173
The patriot system couldnt even catch a salvo of homemade volcano missles launched by houthis at Saudi Arabia's capital

Russian military command will always count on worst case - that saudis got crippled version and system software will be corrected right before attack to Russia. ;) So, these systems will be in a short list of priority targets anyway. Especially if they will be later augmented by THAADs "to protect Poland from north-korean missiles". ;)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
1 Apr 2018  #174
Crippled version? The fact is PiS doesn't really care if the system works or not - they just wanted to make the Zionists and US happy. The system won't even be fully operational for 2 more years - best case scenario.

Slavictor is right - we need to ditch NATO, ditch the EU, and adopt a position closer to Switzerland. Why should our country get ruined when we can be neutral and make billions storing both sides' money in our banks then offer high interest loans for redevelopment after a war - just like the US is now doing in the Middle East? First come the soldiers and tanks, then come the CIA and affiliates, then come the bankers/IMF who are so generous and kind hearted to offer to rebuild Syria, Iraq, etc.

Or even Austria - who wisely didn't expel Russian diplomats
peterweg 36 | 2,316
1 Apr 2018  #175
The patriot system couldnt even catch a salvo of homemade volcano missles l

Its called Patriot, but the missiles, radar and command and control system is generations ahead from the Saudi system, which is quite old now. Sky Cepter could be a game changer from the cost point of view.

Poland out of NATO. Return the junk they just bought and ditch any other ABM's lying around. Get the Americans out of there.

Right, the Russians have nuclear milles on Polands borders, aimed at Warsaw. So **** Off.

Slavictor is right - we need to ditch NATO, ditch the EU,

You spout Russian propaganda, obviously you are a hostile . **** Off Russian.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
1 Apr 2018  #176
**** Off Russian.

***** I'm Polish born and raised, are you even a Polish citizen? I'm guessing no since your profile says you can't even speak Polish. Therefore you, by law, have less say than Polish citizens in such matters. **** off to Londonistan.

Right, the Russians have nuclear milles on Polands borders, aimed at Warsaw. So **** Off.

Which Patriot will do nothing to intercept. Even if it intercepts 99% of nukes all it takes is one to slip through and kill millions. Judging by the fact that the Sarmat-2 can wipe out all of France in one go, how do you think Poland will survive? It makes no sense for Poles to poke the bear. The sooner Poles realize that it's the IMF, Brussels, US military lobby that are the real enemy the sooner we can move on. And in fact many Poles know this - that's why even PL politicians state that Poland is merely a US lapdop, a vassal, that regularly gives the US lobby 'a blowjob' - in their own words.... Yet, Poland is stuck between a rock and a hard place and the era of communism is still fresh in many people's minds.

On February 15, 1991, President George H. W. Bush traveled to Raytheon's Patriot manufacturing plant in Andover, Massachusetts, during the Gulf War, he declared, the "Patriot is 41 for 42: 42 Scuds engaged, 41 intercepted!"[49] The President's claimed success rate was thus over 97% to that point in the war. The U.S. Army claimed an initial success rate of 80% in Saudi Arabia and 50% in Israel. Those claims were eventually scaled back to 70% and 40%.

Success rates of 40% to 70%.... Poland is ****** with this system... If it wasn't my country and my tax zloty going towards it i'd be rofl'ing...

And you impressionable types think this is some military deal where the US and Polish politicians actually care about the safety of NATO's Eastern flank... NO it's all about money... this could've even been an 'im sorry' to the Zionist Occupied US Government for the whole Holocaust spat...

Utter garbage... that $5 billion could've given every Polish citizen an immediate payment of $167 instead - most average Pole's disposable income for a month.
mafketis 19 | 7,002
1 Apr 2018  #177
I'm Polish born and raised,

Meh... you don't live here and keep making excuses to not do so.... you're a plastic pole (as they used to say) who uses unearned and undeserved citizenship to make up for your lack of real commitment to the country (you mainly view as a vehicle for you weird ideological rants)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,335
1 Apr 2018  #178
Oh that's rich coming from another non Polish speaker, non citizen lol.....

you mainly view as a vehicle for you weird ideological rants)

I merely applaud Poland's conservative stance, refusal to accept ME/African migrants, refusal to kowtow to the EU's multikulti dictates, and could not be happier that my own motherland has not gone the way of Germany, Sweden, France, etc. and been totally cucked. Polish people love their country, their religion, and their culture and want to keep it alive and are willing to fight for it - that couldn't make me happier. Call me a 'plastic Pole' but I'm more than willing to lay my life down for Poland. Are you? In fact, once I do finally make the move to Poland and am able to exist in a state of semi-retirement, I plan to spend most of my time with Polish cultural groups, patriotic groups, etc. without expecting compensation.

you don't live here

I know this is a difficult concept for most people, but a person can have more than one home...
peterweg 36 | 2,316
2 Apr 2018  #179
I'm Polish born and raised,

Traitor or a Kremlin Troll, same thing.

It makes no sense for Poles to poke the bear.

Nope, you are not Polish.

"On February 15, 1991, President George H. W. Bush "
27 years of development makes a lot of difference.

Patriot will be part of a three layer air defense, primaryly against aircraft. This is why you Russians hate it so much your 1960's tech aircraft will be fecked, it IS a major step forward for Poland. Poles, Poles who live here, will happly pay $167 for improving security.

BTW, another follow on order for more Patriots is incoming. And a F-35 order will probably happen.
Crow 137 | 7,517
2 Apr 2018  #180
Polish investments in defense have sense in case of attack from Germany, in situation when Russia decide to respect Poland`s sovereignty. Only in that case Poland`s investments in air defense and in arming in general are investments in Poland. In any other case, these kind of investments for Poland are investments in security of other NATO members while is in case of conflict considered that Poland sacrifice itself.


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