Polonia / Elon Musk tells Germans to "move on"! [247]


Yes, there is. The message was internalized as "never forget what was done to the Jews" rather than "we should do everything we can to prevent more genocide"

The holocaust wasn't the last genocide by any means but the western world doesn't much mind if it's not Jews.... (Rwanda, Darfur, Yazidis, Uyghurs to start with and I'm probably missing a few, I don't count Gaza, that's a military conflict where one side has a lot more firepower than the other with predictably awful results and not primarily a government on civilian operation).

Expecting Germans to feel guilty till the end of time is extremely dysfunctional. It's something terrible that happened in the past that should be remembered but not fetishized.

History / Why Poland is not Russia [260]


Not the current country of Litwa (Lietuva) which is a very different thing.

History / Differences between Poland and Russia [78]

Polish people value freedom and human dignity and human life.

russians value none of those.

Law / Polish Citzenship application - Hexon Poland - any experience with this company? [18]


email is a terrible way to try to get things done in Poland (except with entities that already know you, and even then....).

phoning is better (find a Polish speaker to do so on your behalf chances of them having phone staff that can deal with other languages are.... not great).

in person is better, when I had questions about renewing my residence permit the website was not very helpful, I knew better than to try email or phone so I went to the relevant office and within 10 minutes found out the answers to my questions....

depending on finances and plane flights, it might be easier to book a few day vacation to Poland and camp out in their office until you have answers (again... having a Polish speaker with you who'll know when to be nice and when to get tough will help immeasurably).

Po polsku / Dyrdymałki o Niczem 2 [312]


That's very old news. Brain scans have shown that the brain processes a person's first language(s) in one way and languages learned later in a different way.


It's more that people count in the language they learn basic arithmetic in. Several months ago in my local Biedronka a couple of children (8-0-ish) were speaking in russian to each other but higher numbers (like osiemdziesiąt) were in Polish.

Similarly when Maria Callas (bilingual in English and Greek and with near-native Italian) was asked about language she said "I count in English" (the language she learned basic arithmetic in during her NYC childhood).

It's also why speakers of many minority languages (especially indigenous ones) or speakers in post-colonial areas often use higher numbers in a language used in education (IINM Greenlanders mostly count in Danish and not Greenlandic).

Study / Various education and school issues in Poland. Opinions, stories, controversies. [1006]


I used to love French movies that were people sitting around discussing the meaning of life and with minimal plot... those don't seem to exist anymore.... Eric Rohmer is one of my all time favorite directors.

Language / Game - guess Polish idioms/sayings in direct English translation - part 2 [816]


That's obscene everywhere though the degree varies by country (like cnvt in English) and how commonly it's used. Maybe you're thinking of concha? It means (sea)shell in most places and is a diminutive form of Concepcion (a woman's name) but c[pka in Argentina. Rates of use of obscenity also vary by country Mexicans and Argentinians swear a lot while Colombians and Peruvians don't.

Language / Game - guess Polish idioms/sayings in direct English translation - part 2 [816]


and usually one of the meanings is obscene.... when Latinos from different countries talk it's only a matter of time (usually minutes) before one says something completely ordinary in his country that has another, very undesirable meaning in the other's. Think of US/UK differences like fag, cathouse, knock up, fanny, shag etc but X 10 (at least)

For the last 30 or more years regional differentiation (with a framework of mutual comprehension) has been the norm in LAmerica. Up until the 1940s or so the upwardly mobile dream was to speak like Spaniards and local variation was more limited to lower classes, now it's much more about region/country... Mexicans don't want to speak like Spaniards but they don't want to speak like Colombians or Peruvians or Argentinians either (and the feeling is very mutual).

Study / Various education and school issues in Poland. Opinions, stories, controversies. [1006]


But IIRC they had Wednesday off? And they got wine at school?!?!?!?

No one likes them very much but France is definitely at its best when it goes its own way.....

Language / Game - guess Polish idioms/sayings in direct English translation - part 2 [816]


Many, many, many years ago learning Spanish (first foreign language) I found a couple of Selecciones del Reader's Digest and read through them (or tried). I later read that the magazine was a contributing factor to standardization of written "Latin American" Spanish since it was intended for twenty or so countries...

The homogenization though made it kind of boring without any of the regional spark that makes Spanish so interesting...

Life / Poles speaking English - examples [263]


that is not a good thing.....

American Heritage Dictionary:
"characterized by fluency of speech or writing that often suggests insincerity, superficiality, or a lack of concern"

Webster:
"marked by ease and fluency in speaking or writing often to the point of being insincere or deceitful"

Cambridge:
"speaking or spoken in a confident way, but without careful thought or honesty"

Oxofrd:
(behind a pay wall.... scr3w 'em)

Study / Various education and school issues in Poland. Opinions, stories, controversies. [1006]


surely he meant 'bombarding'....


Inevitable unless you want to trendy it up....

Language / Game - guess Polish idioms/sayings in direct English translation - part 2 [816]


to be a minor (but persistent) annoyance


to do something despite being very afraid (sim to English 'with one's heart in one's throat')

Language / Polish pet names [40]


"magnate" in modern English almost exclusively refers to business magnates (aka moguls, tycoons).

I've never heard used in English to refer to nobility. This might have to do with that class of nobility being eliminated by Henries VII and VIII (per wikipedia).

Food / Poles have a more loving attitude to food than here in the UK [169]


Thank you kindly.

Putting it in those terms is a recent idea of mine which I want to pursue more....

I remember a class where I was trying to get Polish students to develop a sense of language.... preferences. They were supposed to find short texts in Polish that they thought were well written or badly written and figure out what they liked or disliked.... it was a failure as only one student could get past "I don't think that sentence is correct"...

If I'd had a _lot_ more time I might have made progress but there were too many other things to cover.....


Short version... not in the Polish sense of 'study' (be enrolled in a degree granting program focused on that subject) but in the American sense... yes. I've had classes in applied linguistics, language policy, bilingual education etc and also have some background in examining comparative culture (in the socio-anthropological sense) and translation (my approach is always context sensitive, not rule based).

Food / Poles have a more loving attitude to food than here in the UK [169]


Poland and Germany are rules-based cultures and their attitudes toward language are rules-based.

English speaking cultures have a more context-based approach to usage. A lack of endings that clarify syntactic structure means that English has a habit of 'drafting' content-words (nouns, verbs, adjectives) in contexts where they lose a lot of the original meaning and serve functions related to discourse or even form-words (pronouns, prepositions, conjunctions, articles).

People has different functions now. The first is a content word that means something like ludzie or naród (among others); another is to create plural nominalized adjectives as in "Polish people" which has largely replaced "Poles", yet another is used in impersonal expressions "People say...." better translated as 'mówi się', że...' or 'mówią, że...'

Understanding that principle is far more important than always having the correct past participle form (which natives often don't much care about which is why so many irregular/non-standard participles can be heard in native speech).

Food / Poles have a more loving attitude to food than here in the UK [169]


polysemy (multiple meanings) is an inherent feature of all human languages but language textbooks are generally not very good at dealing with it...

dish has two meanings: potrawa/danie and talerz (also miska)

meal has two meanings: posiłek and potrawa/danie (especially one that makes up the bulk of the meal without side dishes).

Helping students understand contextual clues for distinguishing which is which in context is better than simple (distorted rules).

breakfast is a meal, pancakes or omelettes can be a meal by themselves (usually breakfast)

Language / Mixed English Grammar Thread [233]


To be clear I've worked with some non-native teachers that are far more effective than some native teachers..... ideally both have roles to play but the roles are separate (with some overlap).

I really enjoyed working in a translation module with a Polish teacher with very realistic views of usage in both languages (so the students had a broader perspective - English from the point of view of a Polish speaker and Polish from the point of view of an English speaker).

I do think that textbooks are overused... at a certain point they need to jettisoned in favor of real world materials (as is done with some other languages that don't have bloated textbook industries).


A (very advanced) student once asked me why past a certain point English teachers (native and non-native) use forms that are supposed to not exist (I think this was about "If you'll....")

I had to think for a moment and then said "in high school they explain things in a way that high school students can understand... at your level you have to be able to understand things in a new way... the way that language professionals understand"

It seemed to work.

Language / Mixed English Grammar Thread [233]


Very few foreign language textbooks think of context.... it's about model sentences and not about realistic usage. That's not a criticism, they kind of have to be that way though it is an argument for limiting textbook usage past a certain point.


Lots of teachers mistake heuristic devices for reality..... some Poles are stunned that concepts like 'second conditional' are just not part of English education for English speakers.

Language / "Hilarious" Mistakes? (Esp. Across Polish and other Slavic Languages) [83]


What a weird lie.....

Language / Mixed English Grammar Thread [233]


I'm so used to awkward sentences in English books I barely notice anymore.... I did notice it but it's awkward, not 'casual'...

I'm also wondering about 3. and what kind of answer they're expecting.... "What did you play in the park?" I wouldn't expect a sport as an answer, I'd expect answers like 'We played the trombone.' or 'We played scrabble.'

Also 4. is different from the rest (which require "did (verb)" while that question is supposed to be something like "Where was she last night?"

For all we know pawian's really upset that the exercise used the word 'friend' and not 'friendess' or something like that....

Language / "Hilarious" Mistakes? (Esp. Across Polish and other Slavic Languages) [83]


Instead of the intended rządziciel (bossy person), the student wrote żądziciel (desirous person? passionate person?)

confusion about when to write 'rz' and when to write 'ż' is common among Polish students... (and sometimes adults).

Food / Panga Fish (available in Polish stores); I'll never eat it again. Alternative? [68]


What's wrong with it? That's very weird..... where I'm from some people still said "I reckon" maybe that's better?

Now that I'm here.... is 'crack on' originally British or an import from Australian? I've never heard it from an American but I've heard it in British media and also recently in the Australian comedy "Fisk" (recommended, very dry character driven humor, which is not something I'd normally associate with Australia).

Life / Racism in Poland - the future [558]


The pictures I've seen dont' really suggest black... most seem to have mixed black/non-black features and skin that's usually not that dark, they seem like an intermediate group of the type you'd expect from the idea that races are very fuzzy rather than rigid categories.


I've looked for it (muslims moral criticism of slavery as an institution) and cant' find it. the metaphor they use for themselves is 'slaves of god' so.... and I've repeatedly read (from muslim sources) that behavior sanctioned by muhammed can't be criticised on moral grounds, you can, fex be a vegetarian/vegan if you don't like the taste of animal products but not for moral grounds since muhammed ate meat.


I have no doubt.... but the majority of the worst offenders are citizens of the countries in question.

Life / Racism in Poland - the future [558]


Arabs, Berbers or Tauregs to be specific.....

Islam has a slavery problem. Mohammed had slaves so the practice can't be criticized on moral grounds which means it can happen where modern civil protections are not in place.

And, it's clear that residents of the Arabian peninsula think of foreign workers from Asia/Africa as slaves when you read about how they are treated.

The biggest irony is that NGOs that facilitate migration from SSAfrica to Europe have managed to revive slavery in places like Libya (saw a story just the other day of a woman sold in a market there).

Roads. Good Intentions.....

UK, Ireland / What English food would you serve a Pole? [172]


I like beans just fine.... just.... not for breakfast....

UK, Ireland / What English food would you serve a Pole? [172]


I've never understood the appeal of beans or fried mushrooms for breakfast.... (or fried tomatoes.... period).

I've never been a real breakfast person anyway (since I grew up in a very warm climate where a piece of fruit or at most a bowl of cereal was all that was needed).

In Poland I do eat more breakfast at times but if I wake up very early the last thing on earth I want to do is have a bunch of heavy food....

Life / What do Polish people talk about? [56]


This is one reason for the US "Where are you from?" opener followed by "Wow! A cousin of a person I used to work with drove through there!" follow up.

We dont' have many safe topics to start with.

Poles usually avoid this by avoiding each other while abroad.

Food / Which foods are generally disliked/unpopular in Poland? Which non-Polish foods are slowly gaining popularity? [180]


I though the sardine heads were vents for the steam coming out which seems defeated by wrapping them in aluminum foil....


I had it in Malta (a hotel more aimed mostly at Brits) and liked it, very close to baked ham (with the bone in) which I love and which is impossible to do in Poland...


sounds like the PRL! (snare drum and cymbal).

Food / Which foods are generally disliked/unpopular in Poland? Which non-Polish foods are slowly gaining popularity? [180]


Not sure if you saw this which I linked to on another thread (since chucked into random...)

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