History / Recommended Poland's history books [257]

THE FIRST PARTITION OF POLAND, Herbert H. Kaplan, 1962.

This book claims to be the first book published about the First Partition since a German-language book was published in 1873. The German book DID NOT bother to use Polish or Russian references. That's interesting!!!

Concerning this book you need to realize that it was written in 1962. References to Polish primary sources are still minimal but are referenced.
The book is very readable and the narrative of events are straight forward. See the picture of the page of the table of contents.

For this history 1762 was the pivotal starting date: Catherine (the Great) came to the throne; August III of Poland died; France and Austria lost the Seven Years War, a major war that many historians consider a true world war. It's this war that created the world order up till 1815.

There is a nice summary of Polish Events from 1717-33 (the "Dark Ages") and from 1734-63 which covered the pro-Russian vs other factions in internal politics of Poland.

Since this history takes a deep dive into a small period of time (1762-1772) lots of details are covered that would not be found in general histories of Poland, even scholarly in-depth works (in English).

Since I'm relatively new in studying Polish history, a few things were quite revealing to me. FIRSTLY, how Russia kept meddling into internal affairs to preserve the DISSIDENTS (Orthodox and Protestants) role in internal politics. I have heard of this but never had the opportunity to study it closely like this book covers.

SECONDLY, the confederations that sprang up to combat this Russian meddling. The most famous was the Bar Confederation. I thought this was the only one. It was one of only many, many regional confederations. These confederations were conservative, one might say right-wing, very Catholic to the point of medieval crusaders. The problem was that they were not well organized and came across as a bunch of brigands. They did not impress those who might aid them: France and Turkey.

THIRDLY, and this is the MOST DECISIVE POINT, because the confederates were irregulars they would cross borders to escape the Russians. Crossing over into Austrian territory was nice and easy. So the Austrians decided to take a little chunk of Polish territory to safeguard their border. The civil war in Poland (the confederations vs the king & Russians) created an excuse for the powers to protect their borders. What Austria did (almost casually) by this small action was upset the balance of power and SET INTO MOTION THOUGHTS OF PARTITION.

FOURTHLY the book is basically the ongoing diplomatic wrangling between Russia and Prussia then later Austria over partitions and how it would affect the balance of power in the world. Poland was in such a chaotic state that the neighbors felt they had to do something.

FIFTHLY is the decision to partition. Very casually, almost jokingly, the idea came up to partition. It was in Russian court notes then made its way into diplomatic correspondence between Russia and Prussia. It was Frederick (the Great) who bit down on this idea and would not let go. To dismember Poland would create a smaller, more manageable area. Frederick was the prime mover in Poland's dismemberment. Again, the decisive move was Austria's take on a piece of Poland. This is what spurred Frederick on and what made him involve Catherine (the Great) to take action. The book then covers the actions of who was to get what and how would the world react to the First Partition.

The author makes some points that really jumped out at me. I have to admit they are quite harsh!
1.)LIBERTY. Poles really had no concept of liberty. There was a courageous spirit expressed in speeches and pamphlets but rarely in defense of a nation (patriotism?) but rather a defense, a preservation, of self-interests. The Bar Confederation seems to be a prime example.

2.)CORRUPTION. By the 18th century the Poles were morally and ethically bankrupt. For such a religious people, they rivaled (if not surpassed) today's corrupt Third World countries. "Jingle a bag of coins and they could be bought."

3.)RUSSIA. Believe it or not the author says the Russians were the losers in this partition. After 1717 Russia pretty much had control over the Commonwealth. But Catherine and her ministers were not savvy enough in dealing with Frederick, his ministers and the Austrian diplomats. That's why Prussia for example was able to obtain a valuable share while Russia got lots of empty land. I found that point interesting and enlightening.

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History / Historical look at various civilisational differences between Russia and the West [159]

@Lyzko
f you read my post I do mention that some of the positives of Russia are its cultural contributions. Literature and music come to mind. Very general info. Russian literature and music are an acquired taste. Most people I know don't relish it. Too moronically, repetitively depressing.

I have noticed that many posts on this thread do not show great admiration and love for all things Russian. I am happy to read such posts. Someone mentioned that it was only because of Putin and the invasion that people don't care for Russians.

Unfortunately this is not so. I'm old enough to remember listening to the generation from the 1880s to 1910s. I remember them talking about the Russians. One of them, when he said anything about the Russians, would spit first. As a kid I smiled but I learned that those who came from the Russian empire, who were the furthest away from Petersburg, lived under a more repressive regime. Secret police, Russian governors, Russian troops, repressive bureaucratic administrators, etc.

History / Historical look at various civilisational differences between Russia and the West [159]

I've noticed that there are a few "Russophiles" on this forum.
When I read the OP I wondered how many posters would agree. I must admit I was happy to read that a majority do not hold any admiration for Russia.

So I said to myself "Is it all emotion?" "Is Russia a cancer on Western Civilization and pretty much the world?"
I decided to ask AI (artificial intelligence) via the ChatGPT site.
I formulated a couple of generalized question seeking, in one example, a list of positives and negatives.
Except for some positive general responses in the areas of culture and science, most of the examples were negative.
You can keep asking AI the same question over and over and it will attempt to be more specific, more detailed; to approach it from different angles.

Pretty much any way you "cut it", Russia does not come out as one of the high points of humankind.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [257]

OH MY GOD! HOW EMBARASSING!!!
All this while I've been led to believe that the Deluge was the Commonwealth succumbing to overwhelming odds! The Commonwealth seemed to go out of her way to achieve this wretched status.

For Polish historians the term "Deluge" specifically refers to the Second Northern War, 1655-60, i.e. the Swedish invasion. Most Westerners use the Deluge term to refer to the entire devastation of the 1648-1667 period.

Frost's AFTER THE DELUGE is a history of the diplomacy and especially the internal politics that shaped the Commonwealth's actions and decisions during 1655-60.

It is a boring, repetitious book. That's what happens when chapter after chapter, year after year, covers the perpetual internal political bickering that reared its ugly head during this critical period. The Commonwealth was uable to control its internal politics, the revolts, multiple invasions, disorganized diets and dietines, perpetual shortages of money and constant failed attempts in diplomacy trying to seek allies. The non-stop game-playing amongst the court, the council, the magnates, the diet and the szlachta is repeated over and over, ad nauseum! All the while the Commonwealth was disintegrating.

Can you say "FAILED STATE"? no better political description fits the Commonwealth. It was created and managed to stay abreast as the 17th century came along. Through "dumb luck" it seemed to be able to hold its own versus other states. But once a crisis came along, never mind five or six of them at the same time, the Commonwealth could not handle them. Its foundation was set up as a "failed state" which it fulfilled in textbook fashion. Even at this time there were talks of partitions.

Frost's history shows the divergent diplomatic aims, the divergent interests of all parties in internal politics and especially the mediocrity of all players in the game of "failed state" Commonwealth.

Reading this book is embarrassing to be Polish. How much more stupid can you get! These are my views from reading the history. Frost, like a good historian, lays out the diplomatic-political history in as best a narrative as is possible. Frost does say that other states were experiencing problems like the Commonwealth. But we all know the other states rectified their situations as best as possible. Not the Commonwealth. Twenty-five years later it spiraled even further downwards.

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History / Recommended Poland's history books [257]

Adam Zamoyski, THE LAST KING OF POLAND, 1997.
Once I picked the book up, I was totally engrossed by it. 464 pages. Done! A great book!!
The Partitions of Poland were naturally covered in great detail. For me this was great because I learned what happened. The intricacies and machinations were covered in much greater clarity than you'd find in other Polish histories written in English.

The surprise was at the end at Zamoyski's Epilogue.' The epilogue was actually an historiography of Stanislaw II Augustus. How Polish historians wrote about --- and treated him --- since the mid-19th century. To this very day the judgement of Stanislaw Augustus in Polish history is still a contentious topic!

Yet those historical figures who contributed to Poland's long road to ruin are hardly remembered; some are almost revered!!!

History / Life in communist Poland - personal relations [503]

@Novichok
Nope they didn't assimilate. They were Poles. I don't know when they got there. I'm basing the statement that they were a minority on the 1897 Czarist census. The Minsk area had only about 8% Poles at the time (If i remember correctly). Even though they lived near Minsk, their village was at the very eastern end of the Vilna Governorate. A couple kilometers west of their village would have brought them into the Minsk Governorate. Everything they did plus their traditions and customs were Polish.

History / Life in communist Poland - personal relations [503]

@Novicho
No they never identified as Belarussians. The village they came from was a "Polish" village. I think there was a church and it was Catholic not Orthodox. I wish they were alive now because I have so many questions to ask. Isn't that always the case though?

I do know that when this part of the family met my other parent's side of the family, they had a little bit of difficulty talking to each other. The other side said they used a lot of "Russian" words.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [257]

After five months on intense reading of Robert Frost's OXFORD HISTORY OF POLAND-LITHUANIA, I finally finished it. It was a challenge for me because I'm relatively new to studying Polish history. For the English speaker, Frost's book IS NOT a beginner book of earlier Polish history.

The book is a political history firstly. All the politics that went into the 200+ years leading up to the creation of the Commonwealth. Naturally history books are best when they follow a chronological order. This book does so but it is broken up into themes. As you go through time leading up to the Union of Lublin, themes are covered. Ezamples: the types of peoples, the leaders, ideas of union (including all the previous variants), the dynasties, szlachta, peasants, Nihil Novi, sejms, Prussia, Ruthenia, religion, etc., etc.

Jurate Kiaupiene, a Lithuanian historian from Vilnius, states that this scholarly work is the first time the Union of Lublin is presented to an international audience in English.

The best way to understand what this book is about is to read the reviews if you aren't going to read the book. The best review is by Piotr Gorecki, a professor in the University of California system (and also a lawyer). Not only does he review the book but also gives a synopsis of the book, section by section. Great!

Two other great reviews are by Paul Knoll (retired professor from the Univ. of Suthern California) and Jurate Kiaupiene (mentioned above).

I don't provide links because they often disappear. Instead Google the author, the title, the words "book review" and the name of the reviewer and the review will pop up. The reviews are lengthy.

This history is going to become the standard scholarly work for this period in Polish & Lithuanian history for many years to come.

History / Life in communist Poland - personal relations [503]

@mafketis
If I had known then what I know now, I would have yelled at my relatives to continue sending money. But I was a little kid them. Even the adults didn't know what was going on in Poland during the 1950s. I don't know where they lived in Poland but I do know they were probably part of that mass migration from "Old Poland" (Belarus) to modern Poland that happened after 1945. This part of the family originally came from the area now called Belarus. But they were Polish. So they were a minority in their own birth lands.

History / Life in communist Poland - personal relations [503]

@amiga500
Yeah surprisingly the money did make it through the system. They would thank my relatives for the "gifts" and ask for more. I know some of the gifts bought bicycles or a motorbike? I don't remember. Faster to get to work.

The relatives who were dying were born around the late 1880s-early 1890s. They are the group that came to the USA prior to WW I. In the late 1950s, 60s and early 1970s they were all dying off.

History / Life in communist Poland - personal relations [503]

I can only reflect on life in communist Poland as an outsider. Very little info but it left it's mark on me. I remember listening to the adults speaking amongst themselves.

Firstly the conversations were sad and seeped in ignorance. The time was the late 1950s. Poland was one of the victors in WW II but nobody here in the USA knew how badly the Soviets brutally raped the country of literally everything. None of us common folk in the USA knew this.

Since Stalin was gone the news in the USA sometimes pointed to better times in the Soviet bloc. Most of the time the Soviets and their "allies" were the epidemy of evil.

The relatives who wrote to my relatives here were always complaining about money. They were dirt poor but never explained how or why in the letters. My relatives would send salt pork, bacon and dried beef to them. Slit in between were $20 USA currency. Evidently the money made it to them safely through the mail. They would ask for more. Nobly here knew how miserable life was there. Here in the USA in the late 1950s, times were so good that they haven't really been duplicated since. Incredible prosperity!

Finally my relatives complained that the other relatives only wanted a "free pass". I got the impression that my relatives here felt the relatives in the "old country" didn't work hard enough, smart enough. So they stopped giving money. They stopped answering the letters. By now (early 1960s) some of the older generation were dying off. nd that was it! That was the sad family dealings with communist Poland, Nobody ever heard from anyone again.

News / Russian criticism of Poland - Soviet war memorial removal [332]

Stopping Napoleon and Hitler are convent excuses given to Russia to legitimize her horrendous actions throughout history. Russia deserved everything she got!
Russia is what's called a "Judas Nation". Throughout history Russia has been a traitorous ally whether allied to the "good guys" or the "bad guys". !!!

In stopping Napoleon and Hitler Russia was a "back stabbing" traitor to her ally. This is how she operates through history.

Even before the Napoleonic Era Russia "back stabbed" . During the Seven Years War a new autocrat plops on the Russian throne and switches sides and becomes an ally of Freddy "the Great". Little did Russia know that this would give Frederick breathing space and give him the opportunity to become the German "super hero". And unknowingly help fertilize the growth of Imperial and Nazi Germany.

But wait! Let's go back a hundred years to the Deluge. Poland's problems with the Cossacks allowed Russia to invade the Commonwealth. Poland was holding her own but having a tough time. Then Sweden invaded and threatened Russia so Russia signs an armistice with Poland and becomes an "ally" to combat Sweden. Poland, exhausted, agrees. When the Swedish threat is removed Russia went back to war with Poland. What a great "ally".

Concerning Napoleon, Russia and France were ALLIES ! Parts of Galicia went to the Warsaw Duchy but Napoleon promised Austria that Warsaw would not become a Commonwealth again. But Russia didn't like this and started to make plans (1811) to attack Warsaw and Danzig.

As an ally of France, Russia was to help blockade Great Britain and stop trading with her. Czr Alexander realized he needed to trade because his economy was in shambles.

We all know how the Soviets got "back stabbed" by their buddy Adolf. Stalin didn't care about the Nazis. He just wanted to carve up Poland. Stalin brought down misery upon his own people. In the post-WW I revolutions, Russia moved towards communism. In Germany the revolution butchered the communists. You have to be an idiot to know they couldn't work together.

So now the Soviets are part of the allies. How come they didn't invade Japanese territory as an ally? Are you going to say it's because Japan got an @ss-whipping in a border war? The Soviets still should have attacked. Didn't the Allies land at Normandy to help the Soviet's Eastern offenses? Instead Russia played save. Now Russia claims all the glory for the problems they begged to be brought upon their heads. That what a "Judas Nation" ally does. Just hog the glory.

And since 1945 Russia has been a cancer on the entire world.

News / Russian criticism of Poland - Soviet war memorial removal [332]

I finally got to read the entire thread. I like it: it's pretty intense.

Many posters mention war memorials honoring the common soldier, in this case the Soviet Red Army. That they should be...
"...respected unconditionally..." "...war memorial removal seems wrong...considering the huge sacrifice involved." "...simple war graves are not a problem..." Constant posts mention the Red Army soldier who gave their lives.

I have to admit I'm comparing this situation with the one going on in the USA concerning memorials to the ENEMY --- the Confederates --- the rebels who wanted to destroy the nation.

Cemeteries to the rebel dead are both private and public. Just as poster in this thread say, let the dead soldiers lie. But things are changing in the USA. Monuments, streets, highways, counties, parks, military bases, etc. are disappearing or having their names changed. Monuments are being taken down if they are in public and if someone wants to pay to put it in a rebel cemetery then so be it! Most enemy (Confederate) monument are in public places. These are mostly paid forby taxpayers and many taxpayers are descendants of slaves. (By the tern "paid for" I mean the preservation and maintenance.)

A poster mentioned the point of having to see the hammer & sickle everyday going to work. That would be the same feeling of a slave's descendant viewing a monument to the Confederate dead everyday on their way to work.

So I take it that Red Army monuments are still around in public. My view is that they should be placed in cemeteries, specifically Red Army cemeteries. Not in public at all. A poster also said that memorials in graveyards are OK but everything that glorified the Soviets should be torn down.

But a few posters made some very inciteful comments.

Firstly, and most people forget this, WW II was STARTED by Germany and THE USSR. They were allied thugs!
Getting back to monuments, other posters said the Red Army suffered immensely to liberate Poland. Well all the suffering of Russia were brought upon itself. Don't you think? The Russians as a whole brought misery upon themselves. How come when the Red Army "liberated" Poland they did not leave like the liberators left after freeing Italy, France, Luxemburg, the Netherlands, Belgium, etc. Instead the Red Army stripped Poland of everything and carted it back to help rebuild Russia. They then stayed as "liberators" for almost fifty years.

It's an UNFORUNATE thing that we have to leave Confederate graveyards in the USA and Red Army graveyards in Poland alone.

It's unfortunate because I'm going to express my opinion. Many might be disturbed by my opinion but so be it. All these graves, both in the USA and Poland, should be dug up, ground up, and used for road fill. The same for ALL the monuments. But of course, this won't happen. Why? Because it cost too much money$$$ !!!

Sometimes mention of erasing history comes up. Definitely not so. If you want to know about evil Confederates or the Red Army, that's why we have libraries with history books written by professional historians. You don't need a repressive (mostly ugly) Soviet monument or a slave owning rebel general glaring down at us. That teaches us nothing.

A few posters also mentioned that Poland has no reason to like or respect Russia. It's mentioned that Poland should not be grateful to anything the Russians did. Another poster said "The Russians are our mortal enemy and who should expect nothing less from them."

Well surprise! Surprise! These words are NOT harsh enough. Think about it! Do you realize that Russia has been a cancer on European history FOREVER !!! Whatever iteration it existed in, czarist, Soviet, Federation, IT HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT TROUBLE FOR EUROPE AND EVENTUALLY THE WORLD.

In the USA, for my entire life and the generations before me, RUSSIA HAS BEEN THE SINGLE GEATEST EVIL THAT HAS ANTAGONIZED THE WORLD.

Finally, one poster said that Polish people should not get upset. That it was a long time ago. That it was Stalin's time. Why dwell in the past? That it's so stupid.

I don't know if this poster was joking or not but he is very dangerous. It's people like him that want to forget the past. "Let bygones be bygones" as they say. Don't dwell on the past he babbles.

Well folks the past is history. Whether we like it or not that history shapes us today. That poster wants you to forget it. Russia evidently loves to keep repeating the past and along the way causes misery for many other people. It seems to be the nature of being Russian!

Never forget! That's why Russia is a cancer, SHE HAS NEVER DONE ONE IOTA OF GOOD IN ALL OF HISTORY. PERIOD !!!

News / Russian criticism of Poland - Soviet war memorial removal [332]

I started to read this thread and I think it's an interesting and important one. The concept of "monuments" are a sore topic in the USA lately.

The biggest issue concerns Confederate monuments that exist in the Southern part of the USA in the territory that was once the rebel Confederate States of America. It's interesting and enlightening to see how other countries, e.g. Poland, deal with this topic.

I live in the northern part of the USA. The issue here is not Confederate monuments but monuments and markers to colonial English soldiers who butchered Native Americans. The monuments commemorate mostly the deaths of old men, women and children.

Food / How is this herring product typically served? [74]

So how do we mash up these comments into a tasty, new style sledz dish?

Food / How is this herring product typically served? [74]

@Miloslaw
I'm in the USA, The family's been in the USA for 114 years. So we're relatively new immigrants. My father and seven uncles served in he military-navy during WWII. All but one uncle were in the Pacific fighting the Japanese. Most married into Polish American families so the Polish traditions, customs and cultures continued. But the generations after me have diversed into everything from Lithuanian to Maine Yankees, Hispanic to Irish to Asian and beyond. I guess that's the so called "melting pot" effect.

Food / How is this herring product typically served? [74]

@pawian
Yes i remember as a child there was absolutely no meat. Perch fish was usually served. I love it but most of the family prefers meat, specifically pork shoulder. It still is a great custom. Everybody in the family, and I do mean everybody, likes the tradition of opening presents on Christmas Eve rather than Christmas morning.

Food / How is this herring product typically served? [74]

We eat sledz traditionally at Wigilia. It's purchased in chunks bottled in wine sauce. We serve it with sour cream, onions and black pepper.

I like the way it's described served with potatoes. It's like potato salad with sledz. That sounds great. I'm going to suggest that for a summer dish as a test.

The extended family still gets together for Wigilia. Fifteen people this year.

With other ethnicities marrying into the family, Wigilia has changed. For example meat is served.

Almost 50% like sledz. The rest won't touch it. They'll eat cold octopus salad instead! LOL !!

History / Recommended Poland's history books [257]

@jon357
I'm so glad you mentioned that.I'm fascinated by the topic but it's so confusing to me. How a bunch of rich people actually ran the country. Wow!

History / 70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies [454]

What is amazing about these massacres is that they are relatively still unknown to the world. I never knew anything about them until about three years ago.

My new hobby is studying Polish history. I started reading the histories about a year ago. That's all I read now. Naturally you start at the beginning and I've been making my way up till 1795 as a start.

There are a lot of topics covering periods of Polish history. The 1863 insurrection for example. This event affected my families. You can't help studying Poland and WW II. The topic is everywhere.

The more I studied Poland and WW II the more complicated it became. Two points stand out:
1.I found out that there were "wars with wars" in Poland.
2.Also WW II did not end in Poland in 1945.
These points were also shocking to me.

According to the 2013 original post the term "genocide" came into question. If you read what historians say in the ten years since the original post, the "genocide" term is still disputed.. Even articles appearing in the English language SLAVIC REVIEW still debate it.

Since this is pretty new info for me, I believe my view is pretty objective. "Ethnic cleansing" versus "genocide" ??? Most Ukrainian, some Polish, and many English speaking Eastern European historians continually play "word games" and say, in effect, that the massacres were "ethnic cleansing that looks like genocide". Word play!

Give me a break! It's genocide and the UN definition of genocide best fits the terminology.
"...to destroy, IN WHOLE OR IN PART, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group..."

Also, this is an historical topic that needs to be constantly brought to the public's attention. That's the job of Polish historians and English speaking Polish people, societies, groups, associations, etc. throughout the world. The way the Final Solution is taught. The way Native American massacres are taught. The way Pol Pot's Killing Fields are taught. The way the Armenian genocide is taught. And yes, the way Stalin's Ukrainian Holodomor is taught.

BUT THE TIMING IS NO GOOD! Ukraine is the "Western World's" hero and could do no wrong. The country is literally combatting EVIL. That's pretty much the American view.

In the "dice roll "of history, it's typical Polish luck. The choice is between the historically evil Ukrainians and the perpetually evil Russian. You make a choice of the lesser of two evils.

Poland"s done the right thing currently but Poland has to "never forget" the massacres and continually remind the world always.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [257]

@Laxask
RE: Poland's last king.
Bought the book years ago. Have it on bookshelf. I'm going to tackle it as soon as I finish Robert Frost's book listed above. That book is INTENSE!!!

History / Cursed soldiers controvercy - not all Poles respect them [320]

@Kashub1410
Your statement really caught my interest. You're saying that many of the Stalinists were Polish but not from Poland. That's interesting. That's something I'm going to look into.

History / Cursed soldiers controvercy - not all Poles respect them [320]

I am slowly learning about the "cursed soldiers." Sad story indeed !!! My question is: what happened to the Polish "Stalinists" who operated the UB (Ministry of Public Security) and the lawyers and judges who prosecuted & persecuted the cursed soldiers? Did any of them survive and pay for their criminal activities during the post-war period? Did these criminals retire on government pensions and spend their days in bliss or did they face justice?

History / Recommended Poland's history books [257]

THE OXFORD HISTORY OF POLAND-LITHUANIA, Vol I: The Making of the Polish-Lithuanian Union, 1385-1569, Robert Frost, 2018.

I am making my way through this history book. INTENSE !!! Two major themes keep rising to the forefront. These themes are issues that arise ALL THE TIME - EVERY TIME.

In today's world, in 2023, one can say that these issues I list below are normal. They are part of what a country does for its people today.But I'm at the year 1500. The first issue is that Poland and Lithuania NEVER really seemed to agree on what the "union" should be. The "union" was always a problem. In retrospect Lithuania should have sought some sort of ALLIANCE with Poland --- not a union. From the late 14th c. to 1500 the idea of a "union" was always causing problems. The concept of "incorporation" was always in contention.

To keep the union alive there was always deals and oftentimes there were concessions that further weakened the authority of the government a century or more later on. Yet Lithuania needed Poland. Muscovy always pushed Lithuania into Polish arms.

Secondly is religions. In Western European history by 1500 the countries were usually one religion PERIOD. Examples: France was Catholic, Muscovy was Orthodox, etc. Poland-Lithuania were EVERYTHING. I'm just waiting until I get to 1530, 1550. They'll be Protestantism, Islam, heresies of all types, etc., etc. And this caused problems that NEVER seemed to be rectified.

So these seem to be the problems that I keep reading page after page: 1.) what exactly does the union mean to both and 2.) religions and religions and religions..........

The Polish political system seems to have developed at a very sophisticated, very early level in world history. From a modern viewpoint many countries in today's world don't have the rights, the privileges, the freedoms, the legal mechanisms that Poland had in 1500. One hears how "enlightened" Poland was in 1500. Compared to the rest of Europe, maybe so, but you can see that she never managed to solve these problems and they contributed to her downfall. The author states that, overall, "It's (Poland's) failure to confront the problem of statehood was a weakness."

Genealogy / Easy way to find out which Polish coat of arm/Clan you belong to. [105]

@jon357
Thanks for the info on this post. It was very helpful.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [257]

THE OXFORD HISTORY OF POLAND-LITHUANIA, Vol I: The Making of the Polish-Lithuanian Union, 1385-1569, Robert Frost, 2018.
I am finally reading this history book. Warning! It is highly detailed to the highest degree. The book is 494 pages long. Plus TWENTY-NINE pages of bibliography alone; plus 41 pages of a glossary and index. The footnotes are within the body of the book.

Anyone who knows anything about Polish history knows about the marriage of Jagiello and Jadwiga and the beginning of the Commonwealth. This book covers the union, how it happened, why, the backgrounds of peoples and individuals, the repercussions of the union both vertically and horizontally. Vertically through the various estates or classes which were also undergoing changes. Horizontally it covers the lands of Poland moving eastwards and south-eastwards across the map to other peoples. In depth it covers how this union was viewed, reviewed, modified, challenged over the period Jagiello was alive. ONE HUNDRED EIGHTY-ONE PAGES just dealing with his life during this union!!! Wow!

This is definitely not a book for the casual reader. You had better have a good outline understanding of the period from Jagiello to the Union of Lublin. Go back to Norman Davies, GOD'S PLAYGROUND, Vol I. That's easy reading compared to this.

A critic for the TIMES LITERARY SUPPLEMENT said this work "...will define the contours of this field (history of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) for the next generation...a comprehensive history, but is, in fact, much more than that: a fiercely argued and superbly developed study of what is meant for Poland and Lithuania to join their political fortunes in the late Middle Ages."

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History / Ghetto Uprising better known than Warsaw Uprising? [111]

This thread has brought up an interesting point.
This is an observation I've made. For about a year I've been intently reading Polish history. A lot of books about Polish history are now available in English.

I've noticed that when I search for Polish history on-line oftentimes Jewish history comes up. Jewish history in Poland, Jewish history in general, modern Jewish history, etc., etc.

When I look up Czarist or Soviet Russian, Ottoman Turkish history, Ukrainian history, Lithuanians history, only their histories come up. It's only when I type in Polish history that Jewish history comes up.

To find out what I'm looking for in Poland's history timeline I need to be very specific, e.g. Polish Commonwealth, Casmir the Great, Piasts, etc., etc.

I do know that Jewish history is intricately tied to Polish history over the centuries. But aren't there way far more Jews in Russia ( back then and today) then there ever was in Poland? Why is it when I "google" Russian History I don't get diverted to pages of Jewish history?

Just curious about that.

History / Recommended Poland's history books [257]

HISTORY OF POLAND, A CAPTIVATING GUIDE TO POLISH HISTORY, 2022. This book is what you would consider a summarized history. It summarizes 1000+ years into 150 pages. This book is part of the "Captivating History" series. No author is listed. A table of contents and a reference bibliography are listed. There is no index.

For those who want to study the gamut of Polish history but don't have the time,I recommend this book. It's a "bare bones" outline type of book. To me I find the section on the beginnings of Poland, the Piasts and Jagiellonians pretty good. It has a nice explanation of the szlachta. It has a decent summary of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth up to the partitions. After that it becomes very summarized. There's just too much to cover. But this is not a bad thing. I think it does a good job. It "captivates" your attention.

The world wars, the birth of the 2nd Republic and communism are good summaries. Like I said this is good for those who have no real overview of Polish history at all. It's short. You can take it from there.

For anyone who wants to get involved with genealogy, I think an overview of Polish history should be a requirement. Many questions I read on other threads show me that many have no idea about Polish history. This would definitely help when dealing with regions, cities, towns, villages that Polish people came from but no longer even contain Polish culture, oftentimes being in other countries.

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History / Recommended Poland's history books [257]

POLAND, AN HISTORICAL SKETCH, Helmuth von Moltke, 2020. This book was originally published in Berlin in 1832, fifty-seven years after the last partition of Poland. It was written by a young Prussian officer who would become the architect of German military strategy over the next century. His plans came to fruition in the wars against Denmark, Austria and France. In the end Prussia became an empire.

I read this book to see how bigoted Moltke would be in his summation of Polish history. Surprise, he wasn't!!! He just states historical facts. It's a chronicle laid out in a nice readable narrative. He points out the positives and negatives of the Commonwealth. You need to realize that he's writing during the rise of the great nation-states (empires) after Napoleon, e.g. United Kingdom, Russia, Austria. I have to admit that his explanations of some of the Commonwealth's faults were better explained than in some of the histories I've been reading. A simpler explanation. The taxation system for example.

I think his viewpoint could be summed up in a speech he gave to the German "parliament" in 1874.
"EXISTENCE is the first necessity of a state, but in order to exist it must secure itself externally. THE GREATEST CRIME A GOVERNMENT CAN COMMIT IS TO LEAVE A COUNTRY DEFENSELESS." (my capitalizations for emphasis)

Get it! Read it!!

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History / Recommended Poland's history books [257]

POLAND, A BRIEG OUTLINE OF ITS HISTORY, Ladislas Konopczynski, 2017. This is an interesting book because it was originally published in Warsaw in 1919 as A BRIEF OUTLINE OF POLISH HISTORY. For those who don't know, 1919 was the beginning times of the Second Republic. You would think that this history would be an ultra-nationalistic narrative but it's not. It's a level-headed outline of Poland's history up to the start of the 20th century. A nice quick narrative read. Clear, concise and to the point. Maybe that's why a 100+ year old book is still published. It has historical worth.

Poland's history is super-complicated. There are a lot of "outline histories" of Poland. I recommend this one for starters, especially those who are Polish but English speaking and know little or nothing about Poland's one thousand fifty-six years of history. Wow!!! That's a lot!

Like I mentioned in another thread, you can get books through your library most of the time. This is for USA readers. If you belong to a library, go there and ask them how to use the lending-library system. If another library in your region has these books then you can get them for free usage.

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  Another Polish history outline book.