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Cursed soldiers controvercy - not all Poles respect them


pawian 143 | 7,217    
24 Feb 2019  #1
The so called cursed soldiers were a taboo topic during communism - they were stigmatised as bandits, robbers, murderers. After the system collapsed in 1989, Polish historians were allowed to present a more objective picture of cursed soldiers as patriotic anticommunists and freedom fighters.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursed_soldiers

However, the topic still raises emotions and controvercy today because many people believe some cursed soldiers were indeed bandits, robbers and murderers.

Read an article about two types of attitude to cursed soldiers in Polish media.
uptranslators.wixsite.com/polishmedia/single-post/2016/04/11/Two-sides-of-the-Cursed-Soldiers

Every year when nationalists hold their memory march in Hajnówka to celebrate one of cursed soldiers, Bury, local residents and activists from all over Poland come to protest because they consider him a murderer of innocent civilians.

Read about Bury
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romuald_Rajs

and the pacification of villages
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946_pacification_of_villages_by_PAS_NZW

See pics of the march
gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/polish-nationalists-seen-marching-to-commemorate-the-cursed-news-photo/1126958564

The march is also condemned by Belarussian authourities who consider Bury a war criminal.
interfax.com/newsinf.asp?pg=3&id=888582

And is talked about in Ukrainian media
euromaidanpress.com/2016/07/30/poland-starts-honoring-war-criminals-of-1940s/

Another controvercial cursed soldier was Józef Kuraś, who fought against communists in Podhale region. However, he was also responsiible for the death of innocent people, including local Jews and Slovaks, Today he is praised as a hero.
asdasd    
24 Feb 2019  #2
They are cursed for a reason, murderers and rapists...

Have you ever read about Ogien or Fire, there is a documentary on youtube I dont feel like looking up right now where some elderly people will tell you how they acted. how your wonderful heroes raped, killed, burned villages down, stole food from farmers and more.
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
24 Feb 2019  #3
Yes. hence the controvercy which we are talking about. Many people object to honouring the soldiers who acted like that.
assas    
24 Feb 2019  #4
They are basically the Polish verison of the Waffen SS and the Red Horde, the Red Army.
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
24 Feb 2019  #5
Of course, not all of them. In most cases, they just eliminated Soviet occupants and their Polish helpers like newly created political police. .
Slavictor 10 | 266    
  2 Mar 2019  #6
Merged:

March 1 - Remembering the Cursed Soldiers who fought the commies



And they continue to have to be fought.

thefirstnews.com/article/poland-marks-cursed-soldiers-national-remembrance-day-4924

youtu.be/b0tCTSKD6yI







OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
2 Mar 2019  #7
Remembering the Cursed Soldiers who fought the commies

It seems the controvercy is an inseperable part of the subject matter.

300 nationalists marched to honour the cursed soldiers, while a few dozen protesters tried to block them. They shouted "Stop to fascism." among others.

warszawa.wyborcza.pl/warszawa/7,54420,24508434,obywatele-rp-probowali-zatrzymac-marsz-zolnierzy-wykletych.html
Ironside 47 | 9,328    
2 Mar 2019  #8
There is no controversy. Those who are talking about controversy are simply leftovers from soviets and should be kicked out back to their country Russia.
mafketis 17 | 6,510    
2 Mar 2019  #9
Come to Poland and do it, mr big mouth....
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
  2 Mar 2019  #10
That`s funny, in other threads Iron openly supports communism and Russia, so what got into him now? Are there two Irons in the PF?
Ironside 47 | 9,328    
2 Mar 2019  #11
Come to Poland and do it, mr big mouth....

To do that I would need a consensus. I cannot just grip people by the collar and kick them out, genius. I'm simply saying what should be done with people like that and I can repeat it in their face.

If there is anything I can't stand is an American deafening Soviets. Listen Jerry lee mind your own business, play a banjo or whatnot.

That`s funny, i

Not as funny as you. You say you're patriotic but you're more Soviet then Soviets or you are a moron. Take your pick.
mafketis 17 | 6,510    
2 Mar 2019  #12
f there is anything I can't stand is an American deafening Soviets

who's defending soviets.... how? you can be very irrational at times.
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
2 Mar 2019  #13
Those who are talking about controversy are simply leftovers from soviets and should be kicked out back to their country Russia.

So, in your opinion, cursed soldiers were OK even when they killed innocent people, not by accident but deliberately?
Ironside 47 | 9,328    
2 Mar 2019  #14
who's defending soviets.... how?

You, by barging in into something you have no clue about.

So, in your opinion, cursed soldiers were OK even when they killed innocent people, not by accident but deliberately?@ pawian

If they were given an order - yes!
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
  2 Mar 2019  #15
Are you sure?

Hey, in the same way we can absolve Soviets who executed Polish officers in Katyn Massacre and Nazi Germans who executed Polish elite and underground members and razed Warsaw to the ground! They all got orders, and Germans even tried to use it as their main defence in Nuremburg trials - It wasn`t my initiative, I received orders from my superior.
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
  2 Mar 2019  #16
If they were given an order - yes!

Nuremburg established beyond all doubt that following orders is not a defence when it comes to war crimes and acts of genocide.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,658    
2 Mar 2019  #17
...and how quickly that was forgotten!
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
2 Mar 2019  #18
Indeed. Even the ICTY trials made it crystal clear that following orders was no defence, so nothing has changed in international law in this respect.

Surely Ironside can't be advocating that following orders is a defence?
Ironside 47 | 9,328    
2 Mar 2019  #19
Nuremburg established beyond all doubt that following orders is not a defence when it comes to war crimes and acts of genocide.

Who cares? Do you want to debate a law and legalities?

Hey, in the same way we can absolve Soviets

Not really.
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
2 Mar 2019  #20
Do you want to debate a law and legalities?

Actually, yes. In other threads you adamantly stick to the rule of law (EU "interference" into Polish affairs) while here you treat it flippantly,. Can you decide what you want at last?
dolnoslask 5 | 2,272    
2 Mar 2019  #21
eliminated Soviet occupants and their Polish helpers

And what is wrong with this ?
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
2 Mar 2019  #22
Who said so?
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
2 Mar 2019  #23
And what is wrong with this ?

We tend to frown upon extra-judicial assassinations, you know.
Ironside 47 | 9,328    
  2 Mar 2019  #24
Actually, yes.

Well Nuremberg from a legal point of view is questionable. Ignoring lex prospicit non respicit. Putting on trial only Germans not all who committed atrocities. Making exceptions and so on....

In fact victors put on trial those who lost the war. In this case they were guilty of deeds that were appsoluty reprehensible morally. Theoretical preceding in this way they could have put on trial anyone as well as let criminals off the hook. So Nuremberg can take a hike as a precedence.

what law they were breaking? They were legally a Polish Army true to the Polish gov and Polish law - not some Soviet Poland and its laws.
OP pawian 143 | 7,217    
2 Mar 2019  #25
We tend to frown upon extra-judicial assassinations, you know.

Yes, but cursed soldiers considered Soviets as occupants and their Polish helpers as renegades who should be eliminated so that Poland could be free. Their reasons were the same as Polish AK underground which assassinated German occupants during WW2.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,272    
2 Mar 2019  #26
We tend to frown upon extra-judicial assassinations, you know.

There was no peace treaty with the soviets nor any legitimate polish government during the occupation , Poland was at war until 1989, but you would not understand that you are not a pole.
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
  2 Mar 2019  #27
That's my problem with them. If they had been killing Soviets in ranking positions, it's understandable, but killing Polish citizens could never be acceptable in such circumstances, even if they were turncoats.

There was no peace treaty with the soviets nor any legitimate polish government during the occupation , Poland was at war until 1989

Pawian, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Poland was never formally at war with the USSR, hence there could be no peace treaty.

As for the Polish government, the one in charge then was recognised as the Polish government by the international community. There's a reason why the III RP takes its legal continuity from the PRL and not from the II RP.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,272    
2 Mar 2019  #28
never be acceptable in such circumstances, even if they were turncoats.

Traitors would always be shot and rightly so.
delphiandomine 86 | 17,376    
2 Mar 2019  #29
Define a traitor. Is someone a traitor because they were working to rebuild Poland?
Ironside 47 | 9,328    
2 Mar 2019  #30
but killing Polish citizens could never be acceptable in such circumstances, even if they were turncoats.

Hmm... so those Polish citizens who where selling Jews in hiding to Germans in the occupied Poland and had been sentenced to dead and killed by the Polish underground are just unfortunate victims of unacceptable action? Waiting for your answer Delph.


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