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Cursed soldiers controvercy - not all Poles respect them


OP pawian 178 | 16,036
3 Aug 2020 #211
It survived because Moscow ruled over Poland - not because Poles supprted it

Yes, ruled with Polish hands. Martial law by Jaruzelski was a pure Polish design and implementation. Was Jaruzelski and his henchmen Jews? No, he came from Polish nobility.

hat's like saying Poland was partitioned because Poles wanted their country divided.

But it was true. Many elites didn`t mind partitions as long as their estates and property in Eastern Poland were protected under Russian rule.
Mr Grunwald 32 | 2,126
5 Aug 2020 #212
@pawian
Considering that communism propaganda (Poles bad pany etc) isn't it strange that Jaruzelski became a general then in a "people's" army?
Almost as if he was fighting for the people and not power hungry communists :)

That is true @pawian
My family is a good example, from Lithuanian side of the family. They worked under Russian Tsarist regime in the administration (Just like the judges family in Pan Tadeusz) but, joined uprisings when called (On Poland's side of course)
OP pawian 178 | 16,036
5 Aug 2020 #213
isn't it strange that Jaruzelski became a general then in a "people's" army?

No, it isn`t. There were more Red Counts in communist ranks. They were watched over with suspicion until they proved themselves worthy of communist trust. He deserved it by working as a secret agent in 1950s and never ever betrayed communism.

but, joined uprisings when called (On Poland's side of course)

Yes, they did but it was later on, when noblemen who had initially agreed to Russian partition saw that it wasn` t so rosy after all.
kaprys 3 | 2,501
5 Aug 2020 #214
There were good and bad ones in all Polish social classes and within ethnicities living in Poland at different times in history.
Not all NOBLEmen were that noble.
Take Targowica or Potocki who refused to cooperate with the Polish underground but was ok with hosting Gorring in Łańcut. There are more and more examples.

As for Jews in the communist/stalinist authorities , there were many but it wasn't only Jews who were responsible for Stalinist atrocities in Poland.

As for cursed soldiers, we can't judge them as a whole but their individual deeds.
OP pawian 178 | 16,036
9 Jun 2021 #215
Wow, it is the second time that Pres Duda surprised me positively. Do you remember his previous time when he spoke beautiful words about the Ghetto Rising and its fighters?

Two days ago he went to Zaleszany, the village in northern Poland where one of cursed soldiers` units carried out a massacre of innocent civilians of Belarussian decent. Duda put a wreath, knelt down and said a prayer for their souls. Really incredible.

Still, he seemed a bit embarassed. The media weren`t notified about the visit and the participants of the ceremony weren`t allowed to take photos.

Some photos were taken, nevertheless.





Alien
9 Jun 2021 #216
President of all Poles or only better public relations. He is for me still not really koscher.
OP pawian 178 | 16,036
9 Jun 2021 #217
You mean not kosher enough???
Alien
9 Jun 2021 #218
Yes not kosher and no enough. In German is something not koscher/kosher when it is not cristall clear.
mafketis 29 | 9,850
9 Jun 2021 #219
n German is something not koscher/kosher when it is not cristall clear

In NAmerican English 'not kosher' carries a strong implication of dishonesty or trickery.
Alien
9 Jun 2021 #220
Thank you for Info. Pretty the same. Only my English is not so fine.
OP pawian 178 | 16,036
9 Jun 2021 #221
something not koscher/kosher when it is not cristall clear.

Aaah, I thought you were talking about Jewish traditions. Coz Duda has no problem with them, either.



Alien
9 Jun 2021 #222
Of course not, his wife is jewish descendant. But he is not kosher for me because he is not idependant and must do what they (PiS) want.
OP pawian 178 | 16,036
9 Jun 2021 #223
Yes, he is like Zelig.
Miloslaw 11 | 3,197
9 Jun 2021 #224
This is an interesting subject that has been "bastardized".
My opinion, for what it is worth, is that most of these guys had their hearts in the right place.
Maybe not their brains...... some were criminals or racsts, but not most of them.
Most of them were patriotic Poles.
OP pawian 178 | 16,036
9 Jun 2021 #225
Yes, I think it is correct.
Miloslaw 11 | 3,197
9 Jun 2021 #226
Blimey Pawian, we agree on something.... :-)
Lenka 3 | 2,714
9 Jun 2021 #227
some were criminals or racsts, but not most of them.
Most of them were patriotic Poles.

One doesn't exclude the other
OP pawian 178 | 16,036
9 Jun 2021 #228
we agree on something.

I always agree with true statements.

One doesn't exclude the other

Yes, thank you for adding it. Still, what Milo said, is true.
Miloslaw 11 | 3,197
9 Jun 2021 #229
It is nice to be in agreement for a change.
Ironside 50 | 11,475
10 Jun 2021 #230
he went to Zaleszany,

What the hell that dimwit is doing? What for? Somebody paid him or what?
OP pawian 178 | 16,036
10 Jun 2021 #231
What for?

I thought it was clear: to honour the innocent victims, including women and children, of the massacre carried out by one of cursed soldiers. We know that fascists like you see nothing bad in such actions;. But decent people do care and oppose them. Duda is sometimes able to behave decently - I must admit it.
Miloslaw 11 | 3,197
10 Jun 2021 #232
One doesn't exclude the other

Good point.But I think you know what I meant.
Intimidation
10 Jun 2021 #233
Why would anyone respect thugs and criminals and such? Might as well respect the men currently in polish prisons just for being polish in that case.
Ironside 50 | 11,475
10 Jun 2021 #234
I thought it was clear: to honour the innocent victims,

He shouldn't, it send a bad message out there. What is his job anyways? What a joke!

Why

Why this scum still post here?
OP pawian 178 | 16,036
11 Jun 2021 #235
What is his job anyways?

His job at that monument is playing a role that every Polish President should do in their terms- namely, uniting Poles of different views. So, previously, we could see and hear Duda honouring cursed soldiers on various occasions. In Zaleszany, he honoured their victims at last.

Are you against uniting Poles? Then you are a fascist with roots in ancient Rome: not only "fasces" but primarily "divide et empera."
Ironside 50 | 11,475
12 Jun 2021 #236
His job at that monument is playing a role

He should just stick to doing what he supposed to do. I don't get why he makes such unliteral decisions like a fool..
Like Kwasniewski that certified Soviet dared to apologize for Jedwabne in the name of the Polish nation. What a joke? He could do it only in his own name and his Soviet comrades...

Are you against uniting Poles?

poles and soviets cannot unite ...
Paulina 12 | 2,002
12 Jun 2021 #237
He shouldn't, it send a bad message out there. What is his job anyways?

Why shouldn't he? And what kind of bad message?
As for his job - he's the President of Poland and making such gestures is one of the things that presidents do.

dared to apologize for Jedwabne in the name of the Polish nation. (...) He could do it only in his own name

Not really, Polish presidents are being voted in into the office in democratic elections and have the right to represent the Polish nation... Just like Yeltsin did when he apologised for the Katyń massacre:

tygodnikprzeglad.pl/jelcyn-przeprosil-za-katyn/

I suspect you don't have a problem with such a gesture in that case?

And, anyway, I don't get it what's your problem - Duda didn't apologise for anything in the name of anyone. He just put a wreath and said a prayer for the victims - it's the most basic, humane gesture...
Ironside 50 | 11,475
12 Jun 2021 #238
I suspect you don't have a problem with such a gesture in that case?

I don't care much about it!

Why shouldn't he?

Because that is not his job. Also because there is no consensus as to what is what. Also there is no need for it. Why the hell he is overactive in filds and subject that are not urgent and could be left alone. Whilst he have nothing to offer in those areas that are of a vital importance. It his last term, is he wants to play any political role in the future? What a dimwit!

Polish presidents are being voted in into the office in democratic elections

yada yada it doesn't give them a carte blanch to do willy nilly whatever they want...

I don't get it what's your problem -

My problem is that he done it to further his own personal agenda not Poland's agenda and by doing so he made an impression that can and will be interpreted in a way that will harm Poland in one way or the other. Because Poland doesn't have elite that would solve problems but have( integncikow z PRLu, ktorzy ise bawia w polityke a prowinni kury macac.) some useless people who don't know what they are doing.
OP pawian 178 | 16,036
12 Jun 2021 #239
He just put a wreath and said a prayer for the victims - it's the most basic, humane gesture...

Exactly.

My problem is that he done it to further his own personal agenda not Poland's agenda

Of course it is Poland`s agenda. It is high time to get rid of those nationalist demons which have haunted us since Dmowski times.

poles and soviets cannot unite ...

Similarly, Poles and fascists can`t unite. How do you like it??? :):):)


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