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Cursed soldiers controvercy - not all Poles respect them


Lyzko 25 | 7,437
12 Mar 2019 #91
Furthermore, the "Enabling Act" of '33 which facilitated Hitler's entry to complete and absolute power in Germany was a direct result of DISabling an already shaky German Constitution:-) All done 'legally' though obviously not 'democratically'!

:-)
OP pawian 163 | 10,370
12 Mar 2019 #92
Back to topic.. When I started the thread, I had no idea the conflict about Bury Rajs would escalate so quickly.

Belarussian authorities are enraged by PiS-controlled Institute of National Rememberance`s declaration that Bury didn`t commit any war crimes. Polish ambassador has been summoned to explain the case.

urdupoint.com/en/world/minsk-summons-polish-ambassador-over-revision-569452.html

"We expect official comments from the Polish authorities on whether this assessment of Bury's actions is [Poland's] official position and how it agrees with the steps to build dialogue, including the historic one, that both sides have recently taken.
Ironside 49 | 10,182
13 Mar 2019 #93
he conflict about Bury Rajs would escalate so quickly.

Conflict which is pollical and has nothing to do with historical truth.

There are always rumor and slander and lies propagated about people. That is true even today so let alone during the war and this kind of war that happened in Poland. Shooting commies spies, willing collaborators and agents that want a good commander should do. Nothing to apologize for.

They say this and they say that. So what?

Do you expect they to say- yes he was ratting on the Polish underground and their families to Soviet NKVD?( for those who are clueless that more oft that not equaled a dead sentence, torture or long incarceration) Yes he was an agent who wanted to infiltrate and betray them but he got caught.

Sure they would say he was an innocent bystander, minded his own business and done nothing wrong. Hell, even a glance on the issue is enough to get what it is all about. Yet you maliciously bring it up as a proper commie that you are and pretend there is some controversy amongst Polish people.

There is only confusion as those who don't know anything about history are being told lies by the likes of you.

Why don't you bring up hurts how Soviet it Poland in mass exception were killing people they suspected of helping or being family of the Polish soldier fighting against them. From 80 years old women to small children.eh?
Polonia101
13 Mar 2019 #94
Read this Ironhead you cretin espcially the last statment what will happen when other nations, such as Belarus, start asking Poland to apologise. This was written 10 yrs ago lol:

krakowpost.com/1673/2009/11/perspectives-on-poland-the-apology-game
Ironside 49 | 10,182
13 Mar 2019 #95
Read this Ironhead you cretin

Listen moron, can you read? Are you able to understand a written word? Seems to me you don't. What that article has to do with anything that is debated in this thread?

I'm not for that apology game or what have you. Its look Japanese to me, some kind of a strange ritual. Unfortunately in the western culture that nonsense ritual of apologizing for this or that has nested. It is OK IF it complete voluntarily. A problem starts when an apology is exhorted by some kind of coercion or pressure. Then fallows demands for money or what have you. Hey why you picking on Poland you anonymous guest account i.e. troll? There is a group of people supported by a state that make a pressure out of it. Hey they are so good that even in powerful independent countries actuation of being an anti-Semite is a pollical dead sentence.

Now, you wanted my attention. You were lucky. It is not a pattern unless you have anything of value or interest to say. I doubt it as you got it all wrong.
Polonia101
13 Mar 2019 #96
Youre the cry baby wanting an apology or your government called pis all the time like children, not me and certainly not most europeans.

Why do people from the west or uk here in Warsaw think that ukraine is russia or think that somone saying I am ukrainian is like someone in their crap uk country who says they are a welshman and not like a north irish,an? These old ass uk people at rhis cafe I am at in Warsaw Old Town literally claimed this and agreed with each other like a bunch of retards. I bet these are the typrs of people Iron is part of. his pople. if they said poland and not ukraine ehd probably start crying like. alittle ***** he is though.
OP pawian 163 | 10,370
13 Mar 2019 #97
Shooting commies spies, willing collaborators and agents that want a good commander should do. Nothing to apologize for.

I have nothing against getting rid of Soviets and their puppets. That was civil war, Soviets and their stooges used dirty methods, too and killed cursed soldiers.That was a fair deal..

But I can`t close an eye to deliberate murder of innocent civilians. Were all inhabitants of the executed/burnt villages spies and agents? Old men and children too? Historians have already proved they weren`t affiliated with Soviets, their only crime was they were Belarussian and Bury decided to use ethnic cleansing on them.

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zbrodnia_w_Zaleszanach

If we don`t close eyes to other nationalities killing Poles, for example UPA, let`s be fair again, we mustn`t ignore Poles murdering other nationalities.
Ironside 49 | 10,182
14 Mar 2019 #98
That was civil war,

It wasn't a civil war? There were Soviets and traitors on a one side and heroes and Polish soldiers on the other.

Historians have already proved they weren`t affiliated with Soviets, their only crime was

Don't talk BS here. What historians? Soviet ones? Are you for real? Move to Russia if you are so in love with soviet scum.

How about you read your own links eh? Read it all. Its says that is all BS. In you own link. Are you a kid?
OP pawian 163 | 10,370
14 Mar 2019 #99
I read my links and they perfectly corroborate what I have said - historians haven`t found rational proofs that villages burnt by Bury were inhabited mostly by Soviet stooges, spies, supporters. There were a few but not all who died.

Do you understand written Polish at all?
Ironside 49 | 10,182
15 Mar 2019 #100
I read my links

Really? Can you read Polish? Check it again you lazy bones. At the very end from IPN 2019, that very much nullifies text above.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,610
15 Mar 2019 #101
So what? That's what happens in war. If he burned villages or shot some people there was likely a good reason for it. Besides, do you have any clue about how many soviets and Soviet allied Jew UB agents killed Poles? Do you have any idea of how many polish women the red army raped - everything from grannies to kids? And your going to cry about 1 dude that the vast majority of poles love for his devotion to a free Poland just because during the fog of war he maybe shot some people who may have been innocent, but likely weren't? Who don't you start a thread about that backed up by sources.
OP pawian 163 | 10,370
15 Mar 2019 #102
Really? Can you read Polish? Check it again you lazy bones. At the very end from IPN 2019, that very much nullifies text above.

You mean the latest declaration of PiS-controlled IPN, those modern Kremlin stooges? I didn`t take it seriously for obvious reasons. Also, you should be ashamed of pointing to them at all. If you do, you follow Kremlin`s agenda of stirring animosity between Poles and their neighbours.
Spike31 2 | 1,139
15 Mar 2019 #103
A Briton's take on heroic anti-communist Cursed Soldiers [video]:

thefirstnews.com/video/cursed-or-unbreakable-the-anti-communist-resistance-in-poland-special-episode-278
delphiandomine 83 | 17,883
15 Mar 2019 #104
You mean a paid government shill's take on it.

Do try harder when posting government propaganda here, especially propaganda that glorifies banditry.
Ironside 49 | 10,182
16 Mar 2019 #105
You mean the latest declaration of PiS-c

No, the link you posted yourself. What are you whinnying about now? Wee paweean shot himself in the foot? Not my problem mate.
OP pawian 163 | 10,370
16 Mar 2019 #106
Stop making a fool of yourself, my link is perfectly all right.
Those nationalists are really hopeless, hoping that other guys will not check things for themselves.
Ironside 49 | 10,182
16 Mar 2019 #107
Stop making a fool

You really shouldn't put a fool or any pejoratives next to your moniker. It Goes alone well like a horse and carriage.

quote from your link - According to IPN historical research (2019) "Bury" wasn't guilty of genocide. Summaries of the previous investigation into the case has been found to be severely lacking and erroneous. Meaning for simpleminded pawian all above that paragraph in your own link is to be regarded as BS.

So you talking about a proven 'crime' of "Bury" are either brazenly lying or are too stupid to understand a written word.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,883
16 Mar 2019 #108
According to IPN historical research (2019) "Bury" wasn't guilty of genocide.

Why are you making it so easy, Ironside?

Even the IPN prosecutors made it clear that the statement posted on the IPN has no legal validity. More info here - tokfm.pl/Tokfm/7,103085,24554199,komunikat-ipn-o-burym-wywolal-konsternacje-w-ipn-ogloszenie.html -

The content of the press release was not consulted with the investigating unit, and its announcement was made without our knowledge - said Dariusz Olszewski, prosecutor and deputy head of the IPN investigation department in Bialystok.

The rest of the article makes it crystal clear that nothing has changed legally. Bury is still a criminal regardless of what a press release says.
OP pawian 163 | 10,370
16 Mar 2019 #109
quote from your link - According to IPN historical research (2019) "Bury" wasn't guilty of genocide.

Yes, and that`s what I commented with

YI didn`t take it seriously for obvious reasons. Also, you should be ashamed of pointing to them at all.

So, my advice from my previous post is still valid. :)

Why are you making it so easy, Ironside?

Yes, that`s amazing. My second quote also holds true: Those nationalists are really hopeless, hoping that other guys will not check things for themselves.
Ironside 49 | 10,182
16 Mar 2019 #110
nothing has changed legally

I don't know. I'm not following some paper wars that are influenced by partisan BS. Neither I'm interested what is legal whatnot in that case. IPN doesn't have any proper standing in legal issues or in investigations. I go with historical research which is more reliable to some degree in establishing the truth.

You mean the latest declaration of PiS-controlled IPN, those modern Kremlin stooges?

Well so it a BS debate, a fake debate right? You just showing off with a logical fallacy and when it backfires in your face because you are a dumbass and your own link contains a refutation of your claims. You just dig yourself even a deeper hole by attempting to pick one of the available two interpretations. A one that fit your opinion but not the one anyone would have picked up as a valid option.

I didn`t take it seriously for obvious reasons

Yes, you didn't. Those reasons are obvious - you're Soviet and Soviet narrative fits your worldview like a glove. Its OK with me. Will you just stop pretending that you have some facts or a truth on your side. It is such a brazen insolence that makes me deprecate you.
OP pawian 163 | 10,370
16 Mar 2019 #111
You are just another propagandist who exploits Lenin`s motto: repeat the lie thousand of times and it will become the truth .

I go with historical research which is more reliable to some degree in establishing the truth.

Historical research is a notion unknown to you, so stop pretending. :)
Spike31 2 | 1,139
16 Mar 2019 #112
You are just another propagandist who exploits Lenin`s motto: repeat the lie thousand of times and it will become the truth .

That's not Lenin's motto.

Maybe you should do your own historical research before you start criticising the others :-)
OP pawian 163 | 10,370
16 Mar 2019 #113
That's not Lenin's motto.

No, if you mean Goebbels, he copied it from Lenin. This or that, Ironside`s attitude is reprehensible.
Spike31 2 | 1,139
17 Mar 2019 #114
The truth is, that it is a variation of a big lie idea developed by A. Hitler in his book Mein Kampf. The book itself is very boring yet necessary to understand XX century European politics.
OP pawian 163 | 10,370
19 Oct 2019 #115
A few weeks ago there was again controvercy about Świętokrzyska Brygada. They were honoured as Polish heroes during a 75th anniversary ceremony held by PiS, yet a lot of combatants critisized PiS for elevating those traitors who collaborated with Gestapo, received weapons and ammo from Germans, saluted Germans while meeting in streets etc.

apnews.com/9eb9502f00724a50aeb33082ff7ce692

Polish officials joined war veterans on Sunday to pay tribute to a World War II-era underground force that collaborated with Nazi German forces toward the end of the war in their battle against the Communists, who were imposing control on the nation. ....... Opponents of the commemorations held a protest where people held banners that said "No! to collaboration" and "Collaborating with the enemy is treason."
Ironside 49 | 10,182
19 Oct 2019 #116
a lot of combatants

What combatants? Those Soviets ? They should have used this opportunity to keep they gobs shut. As for those protesting they are some scum, mostly red. The worst kind.
OP pawian 163 | 10,370
20 Oct 2019 #117
Not all of them. Check out one of most known historians - Friszke. He is strongly against honouring NSZ as collaborators.
Frizke accuses PiS
wpolityce.pl/historia/459533-prof-friszke-oskarza-pis-czczac-brygade-jest-przeciw-ak

As for combatants, those from AK still remember their problems with NZS during WW2.
oko.press/walczylo-nsz-wspolpraca-niemcami-rabunki-ataki-ak-publikujemy-dokumenty/
Ironside 49 | 10,182
20 Oct 2019 #118
Check out one of most known historians - Friszk

He is not the most know but most political one. Anyway if he has a different point of view on t he issue so what ?

The question remains is he saying what he says because he has some facts to back it up or he is using his position to take part in a politically motivated attack on PiS.

If I had family in BS or NSZ I would sue that German.
OP pawian 163 | 10,370
20 Oct 2019 #119
Anyway if he has a different point of view on t he issue so what ?

If a serious guy, educated, a member of important institutions, including the director of National Memory Institute, propagates his opinion on certain issue, it means he has certain historic grounds to do it. Isn`t it obvious?

So what? It means that agreeing with Friszke`s judgement that NSZ were collaborators isn`t an act of madness or anti PiS political fury but well founded view.

He is not the most know but most political one.

Can you read more carefully next time? I didn`t say: the most known, I said one of the most known. Do you know the difference????? He is one and you can`t deny it.

If I had family in BS or NSZ I would sue that German.

In Poland or your emigre country of residence? hahaha


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