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What do Poles owe to Czechs?


pawian 153 | 8,450
18 Aug 2012  #1
after a great success of similar threads, I decided to start a new one, but this time not to educate you but to teach myself.

to the best of my knowledge, didn`t chiristianity come to poland through chechia in 10 century AD? i haven`t got any pedias right now to corroborate it, but i vaguely remember the polish prince mieszko married some czech king`s daughter called dobrava and thus adopted christianity from czechs who had done it earlier.

it happened in 966.

or am I wrong?

what else?
boletus 30 | 1,367
18 Aug 2012  #2
What do Poles owe to Chechs?
With all due respect, Pawian: we owe to them the proper spellings of Czechs and Czechia - not Chechs and Chechia :-)
(I know, I know, that's what English does to you)

In the period of Old Poland (10th-15th) there were many church-religious word borrowings from Latin via Czech:
apoštol - apostoł - apostle
cmyter - cmentarz - cemetery
ïábel - dyjabeł (diabeł) - devil
pagan - pogan (poganin) - pagan
kaple - kaplica - chapel
from kaple - kapłan - priest
klášter - klasztor - cloister
prelát - prałat - prelate
opat - opat (przeor) - abbot
biskup - biskup - bishop
mnich - mnich - monk
almužna - jałmużna - alms
kalich - kielich - chalice
oplatek - opłatek - wafer
žalm - psalm - psalm.

Not many of such borrowing survived to modern times:
prosit - prosić - ask
tělesný - cielesny - bodily
hanba - hańba - shame
jediný - jedyny - sole
kulhavý - kulawy - lame
řezník - rzeźnik - butcher
chrám - chram - shrine
tvář - twarz - face
váhat - wahać - hesitate
vězení - więzienie - jail
studu - wstyd - shame
èepici - czepiec - cap

XVI c. borrowings:
Nouns:
bavina - bawełna - cotton
hedvábí - jedwab - silk
kniestwo - księstwo - princedom
kuchyně - kuchnia - kitchen
zamutek - smutek - sadness
radost - radość - joy
srdce - serce - heart

Adjectives:
krutý - okrutny - cruel
smrtelný - śmiertelny - deadly
veselý - wesoły - cheerful

Verbs:
odhadnout - domyślać się (odgadnąć) - guess
připomenout - przypomnieć sobie - recall

Adverbs:
znovu - znowu (znów) - again

Pronouns:
každý - każdy - every
kolik - ile - how much
tu, tady - tu - here

Possessive pronouns:
mého - mego - mine
vašeho - waszego - yours
jeho - jego - his

Conjunctions:
neż - niż - than
OP pawian 153 | 8,450
24 Aug 2012  #3
With all due respect, Pawian: we owe to them the proper spellings of Czechs and Czechia - not Chechs and Chechia :-)
(I know, I know, that's what English does to you)

Cholera jasna, it was my phone and its frigging net connection!

In the period of Old Poland (10th-15th) there were many church-religious word borrowings from Latin via Czech:

Thanks for a very informative post, again. :):):):)

to the best of my knowledge, didn`t chiristianity come to poland through chechia in 10 century AD? i haven`t got any pedias right now to corroborate it, but i vaguely remember the polish prince mieszko married some czech king`s daughter called dobrava and thus adopted christianity from czechs who had done it earlier.
it happened in 966.
or am I wrong?

Dobrawa (Dąbrówka) (Czech: Doubravka, Polish: Dobrawa) (ca. 940/45 – 977) was a Bohemian princess of the Přemyslid dynasty and by marriage Duchess of the Polans.

She was the daughter of Boleslav I the Cruel, Duke of Bohemia, whose wife may have been the mysterious Biagota.[1][2]
According to earlier sources, Dobrawa urged her husband Mieszko I of Poland to accept baptism in 966, the year after their marriage. Modern historians believe, however, that the change of religion by Mieszko was one of the points discussed in the Polish-Bohemian agreement concluded soon before his marriage with Dobrawa. Her role in his conversion is not considered now to be as important as it is often represented in medieval chronicles.


s
sofijufka 2 | 191
25 Aug 2012  #4
Jan Matejko - his father was Czech, who married polish woman and lived with his family near Cracow
OP pawian 153 | 8,450
25 Aug 2012  #5
Wow! I didn`t know about it.
????? WHy? We visit Jan Matejko`s house in Krakow on each Long Night of Museums.

Matejko born on June 24, 1838 in the Free City of Kraków.[1] His father, Franciszek Ksawery Matejko (Czech: František Xaver Matějka) (born 1789 or 13 January 1793, died 26 October 1860), a Czech from the village of Roudnice, was a graduate of the Hradec Králové school; who later became a tutor and music teacher

Interesting, he went to the same high school as me but dropped out. I didn`t!! :):):):)
sobieski 107 | 2,129
25 Aug 2012  #6
I am waiting for the regular polonia crowd to tell that the Czechs are actually Jews :)
As I remember the top ace in the Battle of Britain was a Czech, flying for 303. I do not know if this qualifies :)
sofijufka 2 | 191
25 Aug 2012  #7
I am waiting for the regular polonia crowd to tell that the Czechs are actually Jews :)

pathetic, even if it was meant to be a joke

as to the other polish Czechs:
Wacław Żywny - teacher of Fryderyk Chopin
Igor Neverly - writer [1/3 Czech]
Leopold Staff - very good poet, son of Frantisek Staff, confectioner from Lvov
Jan Styka - painter, son of Czech-austrian officer
Karol Szajnocha - famous historian, writer, son of germanized Czech, Scheinoha-Vtelenský, and polish woman
Aleksander Augezdecky - XVI century pilish printer and editor
boletus 30 | 1,367
25 Aug 2012  #8
Some of the implements of war came from Czechia. Two or three words come to mind now, but I am sure that there are many more.

The concept of movable wagon forts, comes from the Roman times, but it was reimplemented by Hussites in early 15th c. by their one-eyed commander, Jan Žižka. Their training camp was established at Tabor, southern Bohemia, and since then the word "tabor" entered Polish-Lithuanian military language. The same tactic was later applied by Grand Crown Hetman Jan Amor Tarnowski (1488–1561), a reformer of Polish armies, who used it successfully in his wars against Moldavians and Muscovites. Later on tabor was a basic tactic used by Cossacks.

Houfnice, in Polish hufnica (now haubica), translated in German as Haufnitze or Haubitze, from where came the English word howitzer, are also credited to Hussites. Houfnice shot balls under high elevation angle; consequently the path of the balls was steep, and it was to shoot at enemy hidden behind the walls or in trenches. Hussites used to set one to three houfnices on the wagons, perpendicularly to their axis, to defend their "wagon wall".

Smaller guns were called píš»ala in Czech, meaning that they were shaped like a pipe or a fife (in Polish piszczałka), from which the English word pistol is possibly derived.
OP pawian 153 | 8,450
25 Aug 2012  #9
Smaller guns were called píš»ala in Czech, meaning that they were shaped like a pipe or a fife (in Polish piszczałka), from which the English word pistol is possibly derived.

Wow wow!
Frantisek 1 | 20
29 Aug 2012  #10
As I remember the top ace in the Battle of Britain was a Czech, flying for 303. I do not know if this qualifies :)

Yes. you think about Josef František great soldier of which Czechs and Polish are proud.

Wiki says this:

Sergeant Josef František DFM* (7 October 1914, Otaslavice - 8 October 1940) was a Czech fighter pilot and World War II flying ace who flew for the air forces of Czechoslovakia, Poland and the United Kingdom. He is famous as being the first highest scoring ace in the Battle of Britain.

After Czechoslovakia fell under German occupation (15 March 1939) like many other Czechoslovak airmen he escaped to Poland. Most Czechoslovak airmen then left Poland for France before the start of the Second World War, though František decided to stay and serve with the Polish Air Force.

During the German invasion of Poland in September 1939, František initially evacuated training aircraft from the air base at Dęblin.

He was buried in a Polish military cemetery. He was awarded several decorations, among them the Virtuti Militari 5th class and he was the first foreigner awarded the Distinguished Flying Medal with Bar.

I alwys was interested for this hero. Great man.

"What do Poles owe to Chechs?" it is maybe too strong word - this owe.

I don`t say about owe, but contribution is better to say. What else is know in Česko?

Probably it is legend but Wrocław, beautiful city in south Poland started by Czech prince Vratislav 1.
Frantisek 1 | 20
29 Aug 2012  #11
it is also know in Česko about Czech army which liberated with Red army south Poland. Near Czech Polish border I can visit Polish town with historical cemetery. it is for Red army and Czech army soldiers who died from Nazi in 1945.









goofy_the_dog
29 Aug 2012  #12
it is also know in Česko about Czech army which liberated with Red army south Poland.

Liberated! Liberated?! Could you please learn a bit more of the Polish History in the Twentieth century! Soviets did not, in capital letters: DID NOT free any country in the Eatern Block...

You could write: "Reds and Czechs killed some Germans in the Southern Poland".
My both grannies lived under the Occupation, and both said they liked the Germans more, if can call that feeling "likeness", than the reds. One of my grannys remebers when the "Liberation" happened in her village.

Firstly they've raped a lot of women in the village and all the men that wanted to defend their wifs were killed as they became the trators (SIC!).

And after that incident the Russians started to hunt down the AK soldiers...

Obviously you do not know a lot about the 1945-1948 time in the new "liberated???" Poland, could please read something and then comment??, on your place I would start with Norman Davies' "God's Playground"

You'll probably write that if there's a monument then the Russians and those Czechs were good, somewhat the Positive Heeroes? Then no, you see, a lot of monuments you should be taken down all across the country, for once, why should the Polish citizens pay their tax money to keep clean the monument of the Soviet Soldiers? Soviets were always the enemies of the Polish State.

I'll give an example, in Warsaw on the Powazki cementary there is a massive monument to all Soviets that fought and died on the Polish soil... is that somekind of a misunderstanding or what? Every year on the 1 of August, young Patriots take red paint and throw it on the monument, to represent that the Russians have Polish blood on their hands. This act of patriotysm is called in Gazeta Wuborcza and TVN as hooligan's act, vandalism etc...
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
29 Aug 2012  #13
all Soviets that fought and died on the Polish soil.

They deserve the utmost respect. They gave up their lives, end of story. Stop trolling.
jon357 64 | 14,382
29 Aug 2012  #14
They deserve the utmost respect. They gave up their lives

I second that. They were not politicians, they were ordinary men and women who were drafted into the army.
sofijufka 2 | 191
29 Aug 2012  #15
and what about these rapes by Red Army soldiers? My mother's friend was concentration camp prisoner of Majdanek - she told me, that "molodcy' raped even these starved and filthy, half-dead women....
Ironside 47 | 9,574
29 Aug 2012  #16
They deserve the utmost respect. They gave up their lives, end of story.

I Sorry but what are you even talking about? Give up their lives? As if they had a choice.
As if a fact of being killed make somebody respectful or good or decent! I'm sure there were some decent people who deserved respect regardless being part of the evil empire and the fact that come to enslave not to liberate Poland but so can be said about some German soldiers killed on the Polish soil.

They were not politicians, they were ordinary men and women who were drafted into the army.

Ordinary locust.
You are only saying this because of your lefty philosophy.
jon357 64 | 14,382
29 Aug 2012  #17
and what about these rapes by Red Army soldiers

What about them? Did every single soldier (including the female ones) do that? Did all of them (or even most of them) stay alive long enough to do that.

Put your brain in gear before you open your mouth.

Give up their lives? As if they had a choice.

It makes a difference?
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
29 Aug 2012  #18
It actually makes it much worse for them if they didn't have a choice. The dead have no voice and they cannot defend themselves. It is up to us to behave like human beings.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,390
29 Aug 2012  #19
Liberated by the Red Army - is an expression that may be understood differently in Western and Eastern Europe. If the Red Army liberated, say, Poland or Czechoslovakia or Hungary in 1945, this was not the same as the Allies having liberated France, Holland or Belgium.

If it was the same, why should the Red Army come again to liberate the Hungarians in 1956 or come to liberate the Czechs in1968, and against which occypying power the Red Army came with fraternal help?

For all the (particularly British and Australian) prospective trolls who would come here to say that Poland joined the Red Army in the task of liberating Czechosloviakia of the dangers of the Prague Spring, I shall remind them that all Warsaw Pact members, with the exception of Romania, joined the Red Army in this action. In the eyes of those trolls, the countries of Eastern and Central Europe would certainly have enjoyed the same level of soverignity as the countries of Western Europe not having the chance to be liberated by the Red Army as the result of the Second World War.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
29 Aug 2012  #20
If you mean liberate as "get ready of the Germans" than yes, it was exactly the same thing. Remember that at the time, the USSR belonged to the Allies. And the Allies would not have made it without the USSR. Try to be realistic. What happened next is a completely different story. And if you want to talk about what happened next, why not spare a thought for all those Russian soldiers who made it to Berlin and then were herded back to Russia and fed into the Gulag system?
delphiandomine 85 | 17,823
29 Aug 2012  #21
When you think about it, Poland has quite the terrible history with the Czechs - two invasions within 30 years!

I'm certainly not sure what Poland gained by the invasion - though if I recall rightly, Jaruzelski was already in charge of the army at that point, which goes a long way to explain things.

Worth pointing out though - Poland may have assisted in the 1968 invasion, but to her credit, took little to no part in the subsequent occupation as far as I know.
jwojcie 2 | 763
29 Aug 2012  #22
The rumour is that Wroclaw was founded by Bohemian prince Vratislav I somewhere in the begining of 900, but it is unconfirmed...
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
29 Aug 2012  #23
The dead have no voice and they cannot defend themselves. It is up to us to behave like human beings.

Exactly, 27 million dead...not going to be crass and compare it to 3 million dead......oh,wait,I just did.

Every year on the 1 of August, young Patriots take red paint and throw it on the monument, to represent that the Russians have Polish blood on their hands. This act of patriotysm is called in Gazeta Wuborcza and TVN as hooligan's act, vandalism etc...

Thats not patriotism,thats nothing more than scum sucking animals acting like trash.

Smaller guns were called píš»ala in Czech, meaning that they were shaped like a pipe or a fife (in Polish piszczałka), from which the English word pistol is possibly derived.

Possible.
Hussites rocked :)
delphiandomine 85 | 17,823
29 Aug 2012  #24
Thats not patriotism,thats nothing more than scum sucking animals acting like trash.

Quite so. Real patriots would work for their country, rather than vandalising monuments to the dead.
sofijufka 2 | 191
29 Aug 2012  #25
.Put your brain in gear before you open your mouth.

jon357
argumentum ad personam is no argumentum at all
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
29 Aug 2012  #26
argumentum ad personam is no argumentum at all

And using random bits of Latin does not impress anyone over the age of 21....
Instead try answering the accusation.
Would that be to hard?
Would it just show you are not half as clever as you like to think you are?

Quite so. Real patriots would work for their country, rather than vandalising monuments to the dead.

We have the graves of Luftwaffe bomber crews in the UK, they are all treated with respect.
The Dead have paid the ultimate sacrifice or ultimate penalty depending on your point of view,for that,leave them alone.

I wonder if these pathetic *polish patriots* are the same type who attack russian football fans and blame them for katyn....pathetic.
Besides, Poland invaded Russia plenty of times...thery have just as much *right* to hate Poles as vice versa,but maybe they just dont have the same chip on the shoulder/inferiority complex as the average *polish patriot*?
sofijufka 2 | 191
29 Aug 2012  #27
more insults? It's no use to write more...
isthatu2 4 | 2,708
29 Aug 2012  #28
Still no answers to the questions put to you?
If not then maybe you are right for once,there is no point in you continued input if you dont actually have anything to say.
Funky Samoan 2 | 181
29 Aug 2012  #29
Remember that at the time, the USSR belonged to the Allies. And the Allies would not have made it without the USSR.

Are you sure about that?

The Soviets payed the highest death toll in WW2, that's for sure, but don't forget with or without Soviet help the USA would have developed the atom bomb anyway!

The bomb was ready in August 1945 and hadn't the war with Germany be over for three months already, the Americans would have dropped the bomb over Mannheim. And then they could have dropped another bomb over Dresden, then over Wiesbaden and other still undestroyed German cities and the war would have been over soon!
delphiandomine 85 | 17,823
29 Aug 2012  #30
We have the graves of Luftwaffe bomber crews in the UK, they are all treated with respect.

Exactly. Criticise the living as much as you want, but leave graveyards alone.

I wonder if these pathetic *polish patriots* are the same type who attack russian football fans and blame them for katyn....pathetic.

Exactly the same ones. They're also so patriotic that they do lots of community service, such as sitting outside the shop and drinking beer.

Wouldn't it be better to do a day of volunteering on August 1st? Nah...doesn't draw attention to themselves.


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