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What do Poles owe to Czechs?


Magdalena 3 | 1,837    
29 Aug 2012  #31
but don't forget with or without Soviet help the USA would have developed the atom bomb anyway!

Can you prove that? The USA had valuable resources freed up in 1944 - 1945 precisely because the Soviets were doing a lot of the fighting for them. What if the Soviets just stayed put - or even attacked the Allies?
Funky Samoan 2 | 181    
29 Aug 2012  #32
This wouldn't have slowed down the Manhattan Project (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project). If the Americans had feared to lose the war they probably would have spent even more money and resources for their atom bomb program and it could have been ready earlier.

And with only three or four dropped atom bombs the war would have been over. The impact on moral would have been so devestating even the unscrupulous Nazis leaders couldn't have continued the war for much longer. No Nazi propaganda would have taken away the fear of such a deadly weapon.

It only took two atom bombs until the Japanese government surrended to the USA unconditionally, and there was not one American ground force soldier on Japanese soil.

Of course it would have been a terrible slaughter of German civillians but what is better? Up to 500.000 dead German civillians in a couple of German medium-cized cities? Or millions of tortured, mistreated, raped and starved to death civillians that fell into the hand of the Soviets as happened in the German east in 1945? I know this is a cynical question but I confess I am not sure myself what would have been the better alternative.

Fact is under American patronage West Germany in 1955, only ten years after the war, was a progressing and optimistic country, while in East Germany people still lived on food stamps.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837    
29 Aug 2012  #33
I know that in a twisted way what you just said is "right" but to me it is extremely unpalatable.
Frantisek 1 | 20    
29 Aug 2012  #34
Liberated! Liberated?! Could you please learn a bit more of the Polish History in the Twentieth century

Free Poland from death by Nazis. Polish suffered a lot in World War Two, how many millions died? Ceskoslovensko lost a few hundred thousand, most of Jewish race. Poland was planned to vanish by Nazis. But it was reborn again in 1945. Of course dominated by Soviet Union, so Poland was not free country, but a country in which Polish peoples could live and not die like slaves.

I used word liberation and I will keep it.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,035    
29 Aug 2012  #35
Personally I think we owe little to the Czechs. They do not care about Poland and would sell it 1000 times if it meant they are better off. The only similarity is the language. They tend not to have faith [not religious] and are generally known as a cowardly nation [I did say generally].
Ironside 47 | 9,381    
29 Aug 2012  #36
It makes a difference?

Yes, a lot of difference if you willingly sacrifice your live or not.

It actually makes it much worse for them if they didn't have a choice. The dead have no voice and they cannot defend themselves. It is up to us to behave like human beings.

Yes but everybody can judge what they brought on other people. Also if we are talking the Red Army the fact that they behavior towards civilians was particularly bad.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837    
29 Aug 2012  #37
what they brought on other people

Who are "They"? Can you point fingers when you haven't been there? The Red Army was a motley crew of battle-hardened desperadoes, many of them taken straight from the Gulag... But they ploughed onwards and did their job. It "helped" that very often, they had guns pointed at their backs as well. I'm not idealising them. But I think it is only fair that we don't spit on their graves. How would you behave in their place, I wonder?
Frantisek 1 | 20    
29 Aug 2012  #38
Mister goofy, I respect your opinion but I cannot shair it because I think different. No, I am not communist, quite differently, I think I am more Polish about my desire for freedom than average Czechs. I love freedom and respect all heroes who fight for it.

But history is history and you cannot change it. Destroying historical monuments is rather improper act because it falsifies history, even if this monuments are contravershal.
Harry    
29 Aug 2012  #39
all Warsaw Pact members, with the exception of Romania, joined the Red Army in this action.

Oh dear, you appear to be lying about the participation of Albania in the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia. Never mind, it's as if we have never seen a Pole lie about invasions of Czechoslovakia.

The truth is that of the seven members of the Warsaw pact other than the Soviet union, only four told their armed forces to take part in the 1968 invasion. Sadly Poland was one of those four nations.
Ironside 47 | 9,381    
  29 Aug 2012  #40
But they ploughed onwards and did their job

I'm not even sure what do you mean.
There few level we can debate the Red Army:
- as a tool of their masters - bent to enslave other nations.
- as a fighting machine - I have no beef with that
- as a individuals which were obviously different from one person to other - individuals whose out of combat situation could behave the way they would act towards civilians - majority of them were behaving very badly towards civilians!

You may like or not but you must at least acknowledge facts.
As for gratitude towards the Red Army, its your thingee and few others I'm not bound by your sentiments, neither I need to be.

Destroying historical monuments is rather improper act because it falsifies history, even if this monuments are contravershal.

What of those monuments are in itself a part of falsifying history.

Sadly Poland was one of those four nations.

You know Harry where you can stick your laughable suggestions?Polish nation didn't take a part in no invasion nobody in 1968!
Unless you are using commies propaganda to utilize your pseudo philosophy but in that case you mustn't stop a half way and talk about invasion! It was a friendly intervention!
delphiandomine 85 | 17,470    
29 Aug 2012  #41
and are generally known as a cowardly nation

Not really - they gave Poland a bit of a beating in the first war between them, and certainly more than stood up for themselves in 1968.

They have never really been tested in war - what chance did they have in 1938 and 1968?

Polish nation didn't take a part in no invasion nobody in 1968!

History, even Polish history accepts that it was an invasion.

What of those monuments are in itself a part of falsifying history.

It doesn't matter. They're monuments to the dead.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,035    
29 Aug 2012  #42
So all your comments here are related to war. How a country copes with a war does not define its people. Other than that, do you have any idea what type of people they are?
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535    
29 Aug 2012  #43
We owe nothing more to Chechs than what we owe to any other nation. Chechs owe many things from Poland too.... infact we all are in equal terms.
jon357 65 | 14,389    
29 Aug 2012  #44
argumentum ad personam is no argumentum at all

And ignoring the main point of the argument but replying only to an afterword is indisputable proof that you acknowledge that your argument was just plain wrong. Stupid and disrespectful even :-(

But Hej, Poles and Czechs as cultures owe quite a bit to each other, for what it's worth.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,470    
29 Aug 2012  #45
How a country copes with a war does not define its people.

Really? I thought much of the British stereotype came from WWI/II, no?

Other than that, do you have any idea what type of people they are?

They're not bad people. I've never experienced anything malicious from them. It's not the most exciting of countries, but neither is Poland really. Their pub culture is far more developed than in Poland, too - but their standards of customer service are even worse than in Poland.

There's not much difference between the two countries, really. I've been there quite a lot, and there's not much difference - except, weirdly, they adhere to Sundays being sacred far more than the Poles do.
Harry    
29 Aug 2012  #46
their standards of customer service are even worse than in Poland.

That certainly is something Poles could give Czechs (whether they owe it or not): lessons in customer service!
Ziemowit 12 | 3,254    
30 Aug 2012  #47
Oh dear, I have just forgotten to mention about Albania not taking part in the invasion of Czechoslovakia. So it is you who appear to be lying about me that I appear to be lying wheras I've completely forgotten about Albania just as if I would have forgotten to mention Belize having once been an important British colony.

Never mind, it's as if we have never seen a Pole lie about invasions of Czechoslovakia.

As far as Czechoslovakia is concerned, it is as we have have never heard you yet telling a satisfatory (or any at all) explanation to an interesting question raised in the other thread:


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