News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


And if they can't find any... they'll make stuff up! It's the PiS way!

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


Hey, they're just as guilty as he is in my book. Stand up and be counted. Which is more important, apolitical expertise or party loyalty?

Poland isn't Hungary or Russia and JK's attempt to follow the Orban/Putin road will not end well.

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


In other words, you can't defend the firing of apolitical world renowned experts in favor of party cronies with no relevant experience.

For someone who claims to care about the Polish brand you're awfully cavalier about this potentially devastating blow to one of the most iconic Polish brands.

Party loyalty uber alles?

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Indeed. Many who did not especially work against the communists felt embarassed and ashamed after the transition and so to soothe their conscience they have to tear down those who were on the front lines.... (I forget if there's a name for this but it's common after a country emerges from some kind of totalitarianism).

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


I tought I taw a Duda-cat



I did! I did taw a Duda-cat!

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


As my good deed of the day, I will answer in Polonius's name so that he can rest for a minute or so. His response is as follows:

PO bad! PiS good! KOD bad! Michnik bad traitor! Michnik non-gentile! 1992 Bolek! Nocna zmniana! Treason! True Poles! Catholics! Bolek! Traitors! Patriots! Jews! PiS! Jarosław Kaczyński! Donald Tusk! shreeekkklsll lshhhehrlrlleelelkwkwlllll (brain meltdown)

I'm sure his eventual response will not be one bit more coherent.

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


Just what are Marek Trela and Jerzy Białobok guilty of that it's necessary to replace them with party loyalists? How exactly does this help build up the Polish brand?


I would claim no such thing. I'm not a zealot. But so far PiS is giving every indication of being worse and have the potential of undoing years of progress and returning Poland to the early 90s economically (they want to do a reset of 1992 but the only way to do that is destroy all the progress made since then).

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


Is this a Brit term for a stud farm? I was kind of confused because in my dialect a stud is an uncastrated male horse (same as stallion though implies breeding usage more) and not a place.


So.... political qualifications are important? Another bit of the PRL making a come back?

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]

With his possible appointments as the president of a marine agricultural station, helicopter squadron or army hospital still up in the air? Be reasonable!

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]

It's worse than that, they can't help themselves from trying to destroy the past and make it as awful as possible (being addicted to perpetual victimhood)

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Except for JK himself....

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


hmmmmm this actually makes my "help engineer a failed attempt at 'decommunization' that can be used to create a political base among the naive" hypothesis seem more likely. The more ridiculous the list the more likely to fail. And with a lot of the details being forgotten - the idea that the komuchy are still pulling all the strings is kept front and center to keep the angry have nots all riled up.

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Thinking out loud..... maybe that was the plan all along? In retrospect, it seems that Kaczyński clearly wanted a cause celebre and helping engineer the collapse of a doomed government would help create a mythology about frustrated decommunization..... that he could ride to new heights.....

Interesting thoughts....

News / Poland to return to Catholic tradition? [177]


He lives in a world where the millions of deaths from WWI were totally okay because .... Serbia! And Serbia has never done anything bad to anyone ever!

He's not really entirely...... healthy, it's best to ignore him and just let him shout his mad Serbia stuff at the Polish forum people*

*special prize for whoever correctly identifies that popculture reference

And it's totally on topic because there's a Poland reference so there! (sticks out tongue at mods)

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


no confidence vote for a minority government =/= coup

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


"Overthrow" is a strong word for talking about the dissolution of a famously inept and lost minority government...

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]

how long were you interred for, mr bigshot?

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Racist garbage. Adam Michnik is ten times the Pole you'll ever be.

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


I'm pretty sure that JK does. He made his career by attacking LW, why change a winning formula?


Now now, I thought the official party line is that he was in cahoots with the party (already planning the events of 1989 in 1980), which is why he was allowed to jump the fence into the factory. Didn't you hear about the meeting on the yacht? Don't you keep up at all?

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


If you think anyone in PiS cares about "historical truth" then you're more brainwashed than I thought.

I'm completely in favor of impartial historical analysis (and don't invest any public figures with superhero moral status). But using things that did or didn't happen over thirty years ago to score cheap political points is .... cheap politics and I don't respect that and never will.

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


Yes. Yes it does. Thank you for asking. You may now put this useful knowledge to use.


I don't think PiS will govern well because they're too obsessed about getting revenge for past slights (real or imagined) and they realize their supporters are largely economic losers who might stop voting for them if they became economic winners.

Reasoned criticism or bashing?

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Cause Lord knows what Poland absolutely needs more than anything else are never ending squabbles about the past.

News / Poland to return to Catholic tradition? [177]


Try talking to a bunch of people in their early 20s and see what they think about it - mandatory religion classes drives them from the RCC

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


Yes. There is no functioning constitution and there is rule of party rather than rule of law.


You realize, for a soi disant Polish patriot you make Poland seem like the most pathetic country in the world and Poles like the biggest dupes - constantly oppressed and deceived and exploited (and PiS does't want it any other way) why would anyone want to be associated with such a huge lot of losers is beyond me.

Fortunately I live in a different place - which has had and continues to have problems but which is mostly developing pretty well.

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


Maybe taking a dump on the constitution and rule of law had something to do with that....

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


The problem is that evaluating the documents needs disinterested analysis but those pushing the issue are far from disinterested.

I know there are paper experts who can tell the provenance of paper and ink so they might be able to accurately guage the age and source of the paper (I don't know how fine tuned their determinations are).

I'm all for disinterested historical analysis but not in favor of using that to hit people over the head.

And.... any responsible political opposition in the PRL (such as the church and solidarity) would need to strategically use moles. I assume the church ordered some priests to "cooperate" with the SB for a vareity of very good reasons (with the understanding that they would receive no support from the church if their cooperation were revealed).

The PRL was crooked timber all the way through - there's no way to reconstruct it into a simple straight thing (to borrow a quote from Herr Kant).

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


Every nation state in the world is built on lies, illicit deal and injustices at some level.


I just don't see it. Sorry. The economic problems of Poland (which are real and serious) cannot be traced to backroom deals. Partly Poland is in an enviable position* where the economy is doing mostly very well (before the socialists were elected at any rate) but there's always a lag time between economic progress and increased income. Other problems are more based on factors like education and life choices (there's no way for cashiers at Biedronka to have the same compensation as doctors for example).

Think of it this way. Every small business started by one or two people reaches a phase where there's more work than the founder(s) can do but they can't afford to actually hire someone new. The business either gets through this stage somehow or it folds. Poland is in that stage now nationally. I don't think that economic policies that had failed by 1980 are going to help it get through that stage.

*compared with countries where there's no hope of income increase


The party was (among other things) the place where people who could do things congregated. Of course they're going to do better than most after communism.


The converse is that 'głodny nie zrozumie sytego' many of those worse off at present are not aware of the economic forces that are actually at play (or how fragile most profit margins are for most businesses).

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]

At this point facts hardly matter, Polish society falls into a few broad camps (I hesitate to assign even rough percentages).

Apathetic - don't much care either way

Future oriented - We got rid of communism, and things are lot better now for most people, let's move forward rather than wallow in a past that cannot be changed.

Martyrologists - Cannot stand the idea of Poland not being oppressed and are determined that every significant event be turned into another item in the catalogue of suffering (these are people who never gave up on the idea of the Christ of Nations - suffering for the sins of the world - since the world is still sinning Poland has to keep suffering).

As a non-Pole who's happy to live in Poland I'm primarily in the second camp. The current government is in the third.

News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]


The bell-weather of the rural vote is support for PSL (ime they mostly won't vote for PO but they'll vote for PSL over PiS when they're unhappy with them).

News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak [306]


There is a certain kind of person who claims to hate the entire PRL system but who absolutely believes in the accuracy and believability of PRL documents.

These are data points, nothing more nothing less.

Of course he had contact with the SB what high profile figure in the PRL could avoid contact with the SB? It's in a lot of people's interest to 'prove' active collaboration of Wałęsa and the SB (ironically this is a case where ex-commies' and Kaczyński's interests dovetail though for different reasons).

Since I have no vested interest in seeing LW as either a blessed saint or a national traitor I don't especially care, he was important in ending the PRL and he deserves a lot of gratitude for that.