What do Poles owe to Jews?

Only that you write about Poles and only pressed you add -some!

I would like to look forward to you quoting from posts in which I do that. But as we both know how truthful you are being with that statement (i.e. not at all truthful), you will never quote from such posts.

Look there is one!

Hey guys, I would honestly say that there are good and bad people among both Poles and Jews. they tend to be a minority, but because their names ring loudest in history it makes it sound like they represent the rest.

I totally agree, the same in all societies, except whilst some of us can acknowledge this, there are some who refuse too see it because that goes against their blinkered agenda.

Quite right, there is another one of your lies. I asked you to quote from a post in which I talked about all Poles (and for some strange reason you fail to quote that) but instead you quote from a post in which I talk about the nation of Poland. Sad, even for you.


As I have said repeated, some gentile Poles were good, some were evil, some Jews were good and some were evil. What Poles owe Jews (and what Jews owe Poles) is to tell the truth about that simple fact and to neither try to white-wash the parts of history which are inconvenient for them or to overstate the negative acts by what they see as the 'other side'.

I expect that from any decent person no matter what his ethnic background is.

At last we're beginning to agree on something.

Not really: I have always said that; you, on the other hand, recommend texts which contain utter bollocks such as "the Jews were like hungry dogs in front of a butcher shop" and "The Jews then played the role of a "fifth column." "

If you are talking about the nation of Poland you are talking about all Poles.

Really? So in your mind the actions of the nation of Poland between 1945 and 1989 were supported by all Poles and thus all Poles are to blame for said actions. Sorry but even you must be able to see the stupidity of that particular position.

One ethno-religious chauvinist claimed early on in this thread without any supporting evidence:


But it didn't take long for this rather neurotic position to be undermined by one of his fellow ethno-religious chauvinists in a subsequent post when replying to someone else:

To be honest harry, you haven't always said that or we wouldn't be where we are now. I also recommend this article in Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skidal_uprising

Is that utter bollocks too?

Wow, a wikipedia article! Those are always completely reliable, aren't they? Why don't we have a look at the single source which that article is based on? It has a summary which reads:

" On 17 September 1939, immediately after the Soviet troops crossed the Polish border, Polish troops in many localities were attacked by Belarusian communist insurgents. Particularly many incidents were recorded in the Grodno region. On 18 September, guerrillas captured the town of Skidel. The town was recaptured by a Polish punitive expedition that was sent from Grodno a day later. Many adherents of the Soviet system were shot."

Not a word about Jews but to you this event says something about Polish-Jewish relations. Such a pity that your hated of Jews blinds you so. But fortunately here in Poland people have got over the bigotry you display.

There you go again Harry, the only defence you have when you get shown up to be wrong is to make unfounded accusations and hurl insults. Just goes to show how weak your arguments are if that is what you have to resort to.

The source as linked in the Wikipedia article is here


kamunikat.fontel.net/www/czasopisy/bzh/07/07art_wierzbicki.htm

There is more than one reference to "Jewish proliteriat" as being actively involved in the insurrection against Polish forces. Try reading the entire article and not just the bit that suits your argument.

Instead of playing the anti-Semitism card, you could simply type "Skidel uprising" or "Skidel revolt" in Google to corroborate. Reference to the revolt and to the participation of Jews in it can be found in: Shared History—Divided Memory: Jews and Others in Soviet-Occupied Poland, 1939–1941, Elazar Barkan, Elizabeth A. Cole, and Kai Struve. Also, you may find sources describing the town of Skidel as a shtetl. Your response, Harry, indicate that you are not interested in facts, just in peddling your anti-Polish bigotry and hatred.

It seems like instead of answering a straight-forward, if somewhat uncomfortable question about Polish/Jewish relationships, you've turned this into an impromptu attack on straw dogs, instead. Namely, Harry. You could have ignored the thread altogether, but instead you seem determined to get your licks in, vis-a-vis Polish dissatisfaction with Jewry, and have chosen the thread's most outspoken interlocutor Harry as your whipping boy. Personally, I find the subsequent piling on Master Harry and the undeserved abuse both disingenuous and distasteful. For those wishing to maintain a modicum of honesty and honor in their PF tete-a-tete's, I'd suggest reviewing your debating methodology.

Sorry, but Harry deserves what he gets. He dishes out half truths an lies to stir trouble while being economical with the truth about his own political agenda. This has gone on for years, he never wastes the opportunity to start an argument about the sins of the past.

Straw man? "outspoken interlocutor ". He calls anyone who contradicts his one sided comments a Liar, liar,liar, Nazi. liar, Jew Hating liar. He uses Ad-hominem attacks all the time.

Do you really think what Harry is doing is good for Polish-Jewish relationships? Peddling half the story about what Poles did to Jews while ignoring the motivation and actions from both(all) sides.

The fact is, what happened was not black and white and endless mulling over and arguing about it will not undo it. The holocaust happened, the communist invaded, a lot of killing went on. Whose fault was it? Hitler and Stalin's. Was it the responsibility of anybody who is alive today? No.

What he is doing, stirring ****, is doing exactly the opposite of what he thinks he going to achieve. Its racist incitement, raking over the past for instances of injustice which cannot be proven, either way. All its going to do is increase hate, not understanding.

I want this sort of thread banned, life goes forwards not backwards.

Remind me which of us is saying that some gentile Poles were good, some were evil, some Jews were good and some were evil and which of us is claiming that all Jews were a fifth column and all Jews were like hungry dogs, then we'll talk about who has a weak argument.


And? So what? I have repeatedly said that some Jews were good and some were evil (although frankly the Jews involved in things like the Gang of 13 were far far far more evil). You are the one who wishes to take the events in small town and use that to support the lie that all Jews were a fifth column in Poland.


Card? The anti-semitism of Hipis' posts is clear for all to see (as it is with many of your posts).


Yawn. Better luck next time with that tired old lie.


No, I point out your lies when you tell them, just as I will do with everybody who posts lies here. It's a shame that you can't simply learn not to post lies but instead you just whine and whine and whine about me.


My posts above show how truthful that statement of yours is. But then what can we expect from a man who claims that the communists (read: 'Jews') carried out the holocaust against Poles?

I await your rebuttal that the Soviets committed genocide against the Poles.

That would be me and subsequently you decided to copy me when your lies and half truths are then challenged and backed up with evidence.


Neither of us. Those terms were used by people writing their memoirs of their lives in Eastern Poland after the Red Army invaded on September 17th 1939.


Again, something I haven't said. I do believe it was you who actually "cherry picked" that line, firstly accusing the compiler of statements an anti Semite and subsequently me.


Really? My Jewish friends don't have any problems with anything I post on here. The only person who sees anti Semitism and bigotry in anything I post is you.


I'm afraid you don't help yourself Harry. You have posted many things in an attempt to discredit Poland yet will only back peddle when challenged and you have been proved to be wrong or you have found to be economical with the truth. I posted a small sample of quotes from the archives, there are many, many more I could have used but you carry on Harry, at least I can back my posts up with evidence, links, peer reviewed studies etc etc I eagerly await the next round of discourse.

PS I forgot to post this classic backtrack from Harry. First he claims no mention of Jews but in his very next post when it is pointed out to him that there are several references to Jewish proliteriat in the body of the referenced work his classic response is

Here have a read here about the 1.7million deported in 1939-1941

derekcrowe.com/post.aspx?id=31


stephendanko.com/blog/313

Historia magazine for June, page 74, some article about Jews raiding Polish villages and taking things at will. (This is the issue with Hitler in a communist uniform on the cover.)

What is the article about and why do Historia publish it? Fact or propaganda?

Nice to see you back on form. Those quotes were actually by John Morrison. He is not from Eastern Poland and did not live there when the Red Army invaded in September 1939. But do feel free to claim that they were from other people, I'll be happy to point out the truth of the matter. Although, is there really any point in attempting to discuss anything with you, given your approach to truthful posting?


Could you perhaps post where I claim that the referenced work makes no mention of Jews? Oh, no, you can't. because yet again you are being hugely economical with the truth. Even better, you selectively quote from my post, deliberately leaving out my statement as to where in the work there is no mention of Jews. Why would you do that? Other, of course, than to hide a lie.


Still waiting for you to support your claim that the holocaust was committed by communists (read: 'Jews') against Poles.

Those quotes are not from John Morrison, like I have said time and time again, he compiled a dossier of work from several sources and posted them on that Facebook page. He may not have been from Eastern Poland but his grandfather was.


1) I didn't leave out the statement, it was and still is there for all to see, apart form you of course. Selective vision?
2) Considering the length of some of your posts I don't think it is necessary to quote a whole post when it is very easy for people to scroll back and see your entire post from which I am quoting.

I have no need to misrepresent you Harry, you do a good job of doing that on your own

And that is why he does not use quote marks for them. Sorry but you have been rumbled, as usual.


You seem to have missed some rather relevant words: "It has a summary which reads". The summary has not a word about Jews. I wonder why you missed the bit where I said what I was talking about and tried to claim that other words were relevant. Could it be that the reality does not suit your requirements and so you choose to try and change it?


Yes you did. Your post here misses out the first part of my sentence which you quote from, the part where I say " It has a summary which reads:" So not only do you edit my posts in order to make them seem to say what they do not say, but you also lie about it when your editing is exposed!

You don't think a million dead Poles is worthy of the word holocaust? A Jewish friend of mine describe it as such.

Now try give an answer instead of a insult, Communist.

I think that Poles owe it to Jews not to lie about the Holocaust. I know that using the word 'Pole' to describe you is a bit of a stretch, but I'm not using it to describe you: I'm simply addressing the topic of this thread.

Although, if a million dead Poles is worthy of the word holocaust, that would mean that the death toll resulting from the expulsion of Germans from what is now Poland would also be worthy of the word 'holocaust', which would mean that Poles committed a holocaust against Germans (and continue to benefit from it). Sure even you can see the utter stupidity of making a statement such as that one.


Got to love that, calling for answers instead of insults and then throwing in an insult. Hypocritical much?

I knew it he couldnt:)

Here you go again.

Do you agree that the Communist committed genocide against the Poles in 1939-1941?