70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies

70 years ago Ukrainian ultra nationalists started killing Polish population in Wołyń and Eastern Galicia region. Massacres were extremely brutal, about 100.000 Polish citizens were murdered in a horrible way, including babies.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

Today, 20.06.2013, Polish Senate proclaimed a tribute to the victims of "ethnic cleansing of genocidal aspect." Most Senators didn`t agree to name it pure "genocide" as PiS Senators desired.

Unable to unanimously adopt a resolution in the Senate on the 70th anniversary of the crime Volyn . Senators from the Law and Justice wanted to July 11th Martyrdom Day of Remembrance establish Kresowian and Volyn massacre same call in the resolution of genocide. Did not obtain it , however, the consent of the majority of the Chamber in Poland.

On the resolution senators debated on Wednesday, but then failed to establish a single version of the text , and it was addressed to further work in the Senate legislation. Some senators emphasized that the resolution should be set July 11th Martyrdom Day of Remembrance Kresowian . On this day in 1943, attacked the UPA approx. 100 Polish village. It was the culmination of crimes in Volyn , resulting in the killing , according to estimates of the IPN , approx. 100 thousand . Poles. The Ukrainian side is estimated their losses at 10-20 thousand victims.

Poles are in a cleft stick nowadays - we need to keep up good relations with Ukraine to encourage her to choose Europe instead of Russia. At the same time, Polish memory of massacres is still vivid but Ukrainians, unlike Germans, refuse to admit the evil they did to Poles. it is enough to compare Polish and Ukrainian Wiki entries on the subject. uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%96%D1%8F

During our last year`s trip to Bieszczady Mountains we came across monuments devoted to the victims of Ukrainian rabid nationalism.

Białogród, a little village in south east Poland:

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The controvercies continue...

Yesterday, the Parliament didn`t proclaim "genocide" (as PiS and smaller parties demanded) but "ethnic cleansing of genocidal character" (PO).

What's sad is that there is little recognition to the Ukrainian victims in Bieszczady. Then again, the relative emptiness of Bieszczady tells its own story.

That`s a bit ambiguous. Like the notorious "Polish death camps" phrase....

Well - let's say "those who weren't ethnically Polish who were cleared out/murdered" ;)

You need to develop the topic - at which time exactly were they cleansed/ murdered??

1947, no?

Although - I know it's not directly on topic, but in your opinion, was it justified in order to bring stability to Poland?

I suppose you refer to Akcja Wistula ?

Yes, that`s it.

First of all, it wasn`t ethnic cleansing in the style that Ukrainians had done before. It was just a transfer of Rus people into another part of Poland (Western lands, formerly controlled by Germany). They were just resettled and allowed to stay in Poland, not cleansed.

And yes, I think, although brutal and inhumane, it was necessary to cut supplies to and eventually get rid of Ukrainian partisans (called bandits) who fought for creating independent Ukraine in the region.

But let`s focus on the main topic - massacre of 100.000 Poles in Polish Eastern territories called Kresy by Ukrainian butchers from UPA in 1943-1947.

As I remember Jaruzelski was involved the Akcja....?

Yes but as I said

I don't think you can talk about one without the other.

Actually, we can, jon. These were two seperate events and the only element that links them is the protagonists - Poles and Ukrainians. But thinking in this way we could start from the times when Ukrainian Cossacks rose against the Commonwealth in 17 century, right?

Not really - they were both events occurring in the same region at the same time and with so many other factors linking them.

Both involved dreadful cruelty by both 'sides' and an unhealthy dose of nationalism all round.

Well, you should read more to know that equaling both events in this way is a bit hmm..... unwise.

Besides, respect my decision to talk about the subject which is in the title of the thread.

If you want to talk about Action Wisła, start another thread or find an old one.

OK?


Unfortunately.

I see what you're saying. Interesting though about the motivation for the perpetrators of both crimes. Wolyn is clearly the first thing to discuss. What do you think was the motivation for Wolyn? Not just the ringleaders, but all those caught up. Also. how was it different for Akja Wisla?

Ukrainian butchers from UPA and OUN decided to clear the area of all Poles to make sure the territory was granted to Ukraine, which they hoped would be independent soon. Clearing was done by means of axes, pitched forks, knives, bayonettes, saws and other utensils of that kind. In result, thousands of Polish citizens were slaughtered in the most brutal way. Not killed, jon. SLAUGHTERED.

Simply speaking, it was ethnic cleansing of genocidal character.


Resettling of Rus people to another area in Poland wasn`t genocide, jon.

It wasn't. However was there an element of revenge?


Same difference.

What is the Ukrainian point of view on Wolyn?

i don't agree

a bullet to the head is quick and comes with war

hacked to death comes with hate..... and that is why there is a problem now.

Both are as bad for the victim. Hard to ever justify either - though some certainly do.

Interestingly there's still a small Polish community left in Wolyn and some villages with RC parishes - also in the area east of Wolyn, closer to Chernobyl.

Wolyn extended that far?


Or it comes with a lack of anything else to use.

I've said all along that the Ukrainians were acting out of sheer desperation - if they didn't clear Wolyn, then there was absolutely no chance that they would get their dreamed-of country.

No. Remember, it took place in 1947. The eastern region of today`s Poland was liberated in 1944. Do you really think that it took 3 years to prepare the revenge?

No, I already mentioned it :


The newest monuments to honour the victims

Warsaw





Gromnik

How many more monuments does the country really need?

Well, that`s not all. There are old ones too:

Wrocław:
Huta Pieniacka:
Kraków
Gdańsk:



Street in Legnica




Hmm, because once Poles saw how Germans tried to eradicate the Polish culture by blowing up Polish monuments? The inscription on Krakow monument reads: Nations which lose memory die out.

The problem with all these monuments is that they get maintained or abandoned depending on the political climate.

The Communists were just as bad at putting monuments everywhere - must be a general Polish thing.

Hmm...... Delph, you should also do some deeper research. :):):)

The abandoned (pulled down) monuments erected in communist times honoured such butchers as Feliks Dzierźyński or Vladimir Lenin. Yes, they were abandoned, as you say:

Lenin

Dzierżyński

Do you really think it is problem?

However, other monuments have been preserved.


You seem not to read all posts here:
Again:

Oh no, it's not those I'm talking about - those were rightfully pulled down as soon as it was possible. It's more the ones from the PRL era that were dedicated to victims of Fascism, or to others.


It is true, but you must admit, all these monuments to Polish suffering also help to reinforce the general "Christ of Nations" complex that some people have.

Do you know if these monuments are dedicated to all victims in Wolyn, or just Polish ones?

Impossible!! I cannot believe it.


Yes, it is true, but that is our tradition and you cannot help it. At least for a generation or two. Besides, why should Poles be worse than Jews in commemorating their victims???


Only Polish ones.

The process of reconciliation has started only recently: in June, Polish and Ukrainian bishops signed the declaration of mutual forgiveness: polskieradio.pl/5/3/Artykul/875996,Deklaracja-biskupow-tylko-prawda-moze-nas-wyzwolic



But inhabitants of Eastern lands and their ancestors refuse to reconcile: polskieradio.pl/5/3/Artykul/876302,Nie-mozna-pojednac-sie-z-mordercami

Yes, but why is it always something sad that is commemorated? Isn't there anything positive that would be worth erecting a monument for?


That's what crossed my mind, too.

I agree with pawian.
Theother and delph probably think that poles are unworthy of commempration their own genocide... Sad.
Christ of nations "complex" lol Oo
this the polish cultural and historical tradition if you dontclike then you where the door is ? ;-)
I never moan on the 11.11 remembrance day or on the British "heroes winning the war with help of yanks" complexes...