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70th anniversary of 1943 Wołyń/Volhynia and Eastern Galicia Massacre - controvercies


OP pawian 177 | 14,567
5 Aug 2013 #91
Polish victim count was 3,4 times higher. Why?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
6 Aug 2013 #92
That's obvious. Poles were trying to defend themselves against the rampaging Ukrainian terrorists who used the most barbaric of massacre techniques -- forks, axes, iron bars, impaling stakes, drownign people in wells and torching of homesteads. When Poles tried to escape the conflagration, they were bludgeoned to death by bloodthirsty Ukrainian thugs.
OP pawian 177 | 14,567
6 Aug 2013 #93
That's obvious. Poles were trying to defend themselves against the rampaging Ukrainian terrorists who used the most barbaric of massacre techniques

Yes. First, there was self-defence, local Polish villagers tried to repel the attackers with what weapons they had at the time.
Then, Polish partisan units came to help villagers and they took part in repelling Ukrainian terrorists from UPA.
But eventually, there were cases of revenge, too. Poles attacked Ukranian villages and killed inhabitants. Sad but true.

When Poles tried to escape the conflagration, they were bludgeoned to death by bloodthirsty Ukrainian thugs.

Yes, those who tried to leave the area were chased and killed too. Today Ukrainians claim that UPA only wanted to expulse Poles from the disputed territory. But it is not true - they wanted to exterminate all Poles to make sure the land is clean.

Yes. First, there was self-defence, local Polish villagers tried to repel the attackers with what weapons they had at the time.

E.g., here:
Huta Stepańska was an ethnic Polish village, located in prewar Kostopol county, Wołyń Voivodeship, in the Second Polish Republic. In 1943, during the Massacres of Poles in Volhynia, it became an important Polish self-defence centre, captured by the UPA between 16 and 18 July 1943. Some 2,000 UIA soldiers, supported by 3,000 local Ukrainian peasants, killed 300 Poles (other sources put number of victims at 600),[1] as they were trying to break out of the encirclement.[2]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huta_Stepa%C5%84ska

Then, Polish partisan units came to help villagers and they took part in repelling Ukrainian terrorists from UPA.

E.g.,
A second attack took place on July 12, the UPA concentrated its forces on the village of Rafalowka. The Polish side managed to force the enemy to flee, but this was not the end. As Henryk Cybulski wrote in his memoirs, throughout the summer of 1943 the "war for grain" persisted. The number of Poles in Przebraże was too high and its defenders realized that it was impossible to feed so many people. Thus, in April and July 1943, Polish peasants, guarded by patrols, were harvesting crops, transporting it to the settlement. The Ukrainians would attack the peasants, killing several.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Przebra%C5%BCe_Defence

But eventually, there were cases of revenge, too. Poles attacked Ukranian villages and killed inhabitants.

Sahryń was the site of the initial thrust of the AK counter-offensive against UPA, under the command of Lieutenant Zenon Jachymek,[2] due to Ukrainian self-defence stationing there.[4]

At dawn on March 10, 1944 the AK unit from Division Hrubieszow attacked the fortified village. A heavy fighting broke out.[2] The Ukrainians retreated, but both Catholic and Orthodox churches in Sahryń were burned down.[2] Some 700 villagers were killed by the AK in reprisal, and 260 farmhouses set of fire.[3]


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahry%C5%84

revenge, too.

What did Poles take revenge for?

E.g.,

On August 30, 1943, armed members of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UIA) murdered 438 Poles. Among the victims there were 246 children under 14 years of age.[1] On the same day, the insurgents murdered 529 Poles in the neighboring village of Wola Ostrowiecka (see Massacre of Wola Ostrowiecka).[2] After the massacre, Ostrówki was burnt to the ground, and all goods were looted by local peasants. In September 1943, commandant of the local UIA unit Lysiy reported to the UIA's headquarters: "I have carried out the operation in the villages of Wola Ostrowiecka and Ostrovky. I have liquidated all Poles, from the youngest to the oldest ones. I burnt all buildings, and appropriated all goods".[3]

The massacre followed a schem


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Ostr%C3%B3wki

Exhumation and second funeral

Exhumation and second funeral of killed Poles

Exhumation and second funeral of killed Poles

Exhumation and second funeral of killed Poles
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
9 Nov 2015 #94
An estimated 100,000 to 130,000 Poles (the exact number will never be known!) were butchered by bloodthirsty Ukrainian fanatics in Wołyń and Eastern Małopolska. Several thousand Urkrainians also died in the fray when Poles organised self-defence groups to protect their homes and villages from the rampaging ethnic cleansers. That is a huge difference.
Borsukrates
9 Nov 2015 #95
Bereza was no Boy Scout camp to be sure, and harsh methods had to be used there are elsehwere in those troubled, precarious times. Poland was wedged in between two hostile powers -- Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany -- and faced numerous internal threats. These included the Nazi fifth column, an effective Soviet fifth column -- the illegal, subversive, Jewish-dominated Communist Party of Poland, as well as Ukrainian terrorists and saboteurs who had assassinated a senior Polish official. What would you have done under the circumstances -- held a weekly picnic for the mortal enemies of Poland?

Yes, Poland WAS in very difficult situation. But the very same justification was used by Ukrainian nationalists. They were also placed between two hostile powers - Poland and Russia. This is where nationalism leads.

You are justifying genocide, disgusting scum. Because of something that allegedly happened centuries earlier... ? Do you also justify so called Holocaust because Jews were persecuting and killing first Christians ? Troll, go get a job.

I'm merely following your logic - and read the full context.

You want some more recent history - OK.

1918-1919r.

- Polish-Ukrainian war for ownership of Lwów and east Galitia. It ended in Polish victory. The legacy is a legend on both sides and two neropolies in Lwów - "Orląt" (Eaglets) and "Siczowych Strilciw".

1920 r.

- Józef Piłsudski's attack on Kijów (Kiev) in alliance with much weaker ukrainian forces of Semen Petura. The war went back from Kiev to Warsaw and back to Niemen river. For Ukraine, the peace treaty in Ryga meant a partition (Rozbiór!!). Western part went to Poland, central and east part went to soviet Russia.

1925 r.

- Primary and secondary schools with Ukrainian language were closed in Poland.

Do you see the connection now ? It was a despicable way to fight Polish occupants to be sure, and it had opposition even in OUN. But Ukrainians had every reason to feel oppressed.

Is anyone still surprised that Polonization never works ?

----------------

The bottom line is that there's a lot of mutual hostility between Poles and Ukrainians. But no reconciliation can ever happen until both sides play fair. Poland should make a good example.

It's in interest of Russia to fan the flames. Russia is deeply scared that Poland will cooperate with Ukraine. Ukraine has very fertile land, and it lies on the East-West crossroads of the continent. Ukraine can develop nuclear weapons within months - it has all the needed technology. Ukraine has access to Black Sea through Dniepr river. River and water transport is extremely profitable - Jacek Bartosiak from Narodowe Centrum Studiów Strategicznych (National Center of Strategic Studies) says 11-20 times cheaper than land transport. "Free City Gdańsk" - "Wolne Miasto Gdańsk" - used to make huge profits on river transport. If Wisła is made navigable again - Poland can make huge profits on transport between Gdańsk and Odessa and Black Sea. And European Union is very eager to finance the restoration of E-40 waterway, it's just polish ministers that don't give a crap. Also, Ukraine has very advanced military industry, in some ways better than Poland. Not to mention natural resources. Ukraine, like Poland, lies on the new Chinese Silk Road. If Russia controls Ukraine, you can be sure they'll find a way to deny Poland profits.
G (undercover)
9 Nov 2015 #96
But the very same justification was used by Ukrainian nationalists

Yeah Poles used it to justify arresting 3 thousand people, they used it to murder 100 thousand. They justified, we guilty :))) Feck off troll.
Harry
9 Nov 2015 #97
the rampaging ethnic cleansers.

You mean the Poles who carried out Operation Wisla? You remember them, the Poles who ethnically cleansed part of Poland, deporting more than a hundred and fourty thousand people, mostly women and children, to the 'recovered territories' where the survivors and their descendants are currently sneered at by you.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
9 Nov 2015 #98
to fight Polish occupants

Maybe you should start up a new thread called Pole-bashing Corner or maybe set up an entirely separate forum called Polanophobes United. Surely quite a few PF-ers who always support the "other side" that Poland is in conflict with. There they could spread their wings and bash away to their heart's content. The Brit Bullies will probably be the first to sign up.
Borsukrates
9 Nov 2015 #99
I knew about Operacja Wisła ("Operation Vistula"), but it had to come from someone else or they wouldn't believe.

Ukrainians feel betrayed by Piłsudski, with whom Petliura signed a deal. The Poles changed their mind. A good analogy is Napoleon Bonaparte + Henryk Dąbrowski.

So don't act surprised.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
9 Nov 2015 #100
I have to wonder what post 92 has to do with the threads title? That is clearly off-topic.

Yes, Pol3, for most part you are boring and dry like a three years old hardtack but when you hit the nail on the head you do right.
rudolfo
25 Apr 2017 #101
Y0U OUGHT TO READ : HIRKA PRAWDA = BITTER TRUTH by POLISZCZUK ----learn the facts.


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