Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry?

What are the" historical "facts.? Your facts are almost identical to Nazi propaganda. To justify the invasion, rape and pillage is convenient to find a neighboring nation, brand them as half-human, Mongol- barbarian, then extermination, taking territory is a natural part. Don't remember, probably Mein Kompf or words of wisdom from Nazi lunatic, Goebbels is stating that Poles were once on Aryan race , then, according to their insane logic, we the Poles by some magic turned into half Mongol barbarians. Insanity based on zero science. Lyzko's spewing Nazi's trash is difficult to comprehend, especially coming from a Jew.


If you are looking for some traces, you are looking in the wrong place, Start with Germanic Austria, that's where Jan Sobieski destroyed Turkish forces besieging Vienna.

Turks did not get the chance of degrading our genes, not so sure about Austrians, and by proximity, Germans.
Those are historical facts. One more time in history, we spilled our blood, protecting the superhuman race, just to be repaid, with erasing Poland from the face of the map.


We the Poles, borne and raised in Poland, understanding of who and what we are, instinctively. Foreigners commenting on our DNA have got no clue.

Ranting without the facts is like blind arguing with a person of 20/20 vision about a color of the rainbow,
From the bottom of my heart accept my thanks for eloquent, scientific explanation.

@Lyzko
For goodness sake, the Ottoman Empire only reached Podolia (if we're talking about the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth) at a certain point which is now Ukraine. And what do the Turkish have to do with Mongols?

They were only backed by the Crimean Tatars at the Battle of Vienna who left soon after Sobieski's arrival in Vienna if I remember well.

So what now, are you going to claim Turkish DNA in Austrians - after the Ottoman Empire held Vienna under siege twice.
What about Polish Jews -do they also have Mongol or Turkish DNA? If certain invasions affected DNA of ethnic Poles, did they affect the Jewish population as well? If not, how come?

You are talking BS again. The troops that fought at the Battle of Vienna were not exclusively Polish.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna


Conveniently forgetting the Swedish, Scottish, Dutch, French, German, Austrian, Russian, ..., influence, of course...

There is no "Mongolian ancestry in Poland"... awesome election slogan!!! ha ha ha!!

I make no "claims", I merely quote from all available historical sources, available that is, to all who know how to read, moreoever, who understand what they read:-)

My comments aren't racist, and so quit projecting!

Your sources sound suspiciously like a quote from Mein Kompf or a speech from Gobbles; I would not expect it from a Jew. Are you Jewish?


But of course, they are, according to my historical sources, actually, mostly current sources.

Examples, please? See, now the shoe's on the other foot!

If you are Polish, you know it by heart, no examples needed. But a friendly person that I am I will give you an example in the form of a question.

If you are so hellbent on proving Mongols contribution to Polish DNA, I am asking you why don't you care to consider a Scandinavian donation?

I can assure you Deluge was of much greater importance than Turks at the gates of Germanic Vienna. By your definition, are we now half Scandinavians?

Need I remind an obviously intelligent person such as you that the "first" Slav, Rurik, was also the progenitor of the Swedes?
Case closed!

Well, in that case, I will find a different place to display a statue of Swiatowid to make room for Odin, Frigg, and Thor !!

My next task is to persuade my brothers in DNA to stop muddying their pure Nordic blood with some nomads of questionable origins.

He was simply the progenitor of the Rurik dynasty in Ruthenia. But the percentage of Swedish genes in today's Ukrainians would be extremely small or none because of this. Due to the genetic phenomenon called "crossing-over", "going back fifteen generations, the probability that any one ancestor contributed directly to your DNA becomes exceedingly small" (David Reich; Who We Are and How We Got Here).

There should be much more people than a 300-people strong squad of foreign descent in a given population to leave a significant or perhaps even detectable genetic trace in that population some 1000 years later. Likewise, "Queen Elisabeth II of England almost certainly inherited no DNA from William of Normandy, who conquered England in 1066 and who is believed to be her ancestor twenty-four generations back in time" (David Reich; Who We Are and How We Got Here). The same applies to the impact of the quickly passing warrior if the Golden Horde in Poland.

That's genetics, Watson. Check for the "crossing-over" phenomenon in the genes, please.

No argument there, Ziem..
So much for my specious information, eh gang?
:-)

Exactly.Why would someone even come up with such a stupid idea.
But Hungary probably has some Mongolian ancestry.

Never rule out DNA findings, even if the evidence might be a cover for something not specifically related!
There surely is a distinct Asiatic cast to many Polish faces. This is a fact, not a fantasy:-)

They are nearly useless..... IGNORE.


Pure fantasy.
There is no asiatic cast to ANY Polish faces...... mate, you need an optician and fast......

I suggest you get a pair of specs, dude, 'cuz you ain't seein' straight!

HeHe.... I look at my face in the mirror every morning and can't see anything "asiatic".....BTW, I don't wear or need glasses.....

I bet you look more "asiatic" or at least "Middle Eastern" than I do :-)

The Poles have a considerable element of admixture from the neighboring Germanic along with the Eastern Slavic, much of which shows a degree of Asiatic influence.

There you go again, trying to put a square peg into a round hole forcefully. Check with your ophthalmologist, must be something unusual with your eyes

.You see slanted, and I see circular, you see olive, and I see white only. I know my vision is 20/20 not a trace of daltonizm, excellent night vision, so it must be you


Totally agree less than a degree, is zero even possible?

Not only I share this observation, folks!
Just open your eyes.

Oh good, your eyes are open, you can see now? My expectations are hitting the stratosphere, fully expect positive posts, concerning Ronaldus Magnus
and the USA, at the same time, about Poland without any Mongol characteristic .BTW many thanks to your ophthalmologist for the miraculous gift of sight

@Lyzko
Read Ziemowit's post and try to understand it.

Surely there is, there is no doubt about it. A good friend of mine (Warsaw), for example, does have it, though he is Polish to the core and has no memory of non-Polish ancestors. Likewise, his sister and father do as well. Occasionally, but not very often, I see faces in Warsaw that have subtle, but clearly visible, Mongolian-type featues on them.

But these traits are certainly not a result of some Golden Horde admixture. The influence of an "Asian" factor is more recent than that. Notice that there still exists the Cremean Karaites' cemetery as well as the Tatars' cemeteriy in Warsaw.

Years ago I knew a Polish woman studying Japanese, when she went to Japan.. people assumed she was Japanese because of her looks. Apparently there was a Turkic woman on her father's side, none of those features came out in her father or her sister but were concentrated in her.

There are some Mongolian Polish celebrities like Bilguun or that child actress from Rodzina zastępcza, Misheel (?). They do stand out in the crowd, I'm afraid.

There are Poles with Asian origins like that girl from Donatan's videos -one of her grandmothers was Chinese, I think.
Or that Polish -Japanese fashion designer who passed away several years ago. And you can see some Asian features in their faces but their Asian roots are pretty recent.

I'm sorry but I just can't believe a claim that Asian features are prevalent in Poles due to an invasion several hundred years ago.

I already have, kaprys, and I will admit too that the influence (if negligible) has to be sure been quite watered down over the centuries.

Nonetheless, even experts, more learned than either of us, will doubtless agree that certain traces may be seen among any number of Poles.
While I can't name percentages off the top of my head, that is, z pamiec, we've all known/seen Polish faces which clearly bare the reminents of some Asiatic, at least "Eastern", background. If we say we haven't, we're flat out lying!

@Lyzko
I don't expect you to know them z pamięci but the Internet is full of sources so you can link them here :)
BTW, I just googled that designer and it turns out he wasn't half Polish. Only his step father was. His mother was of German-Italian origin and his father was Japanese.

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"Z pamieci"
Ever heard of a typo?? Thanks for keepin' me honest, kaprysLOL

Perhaps the not so disguised (erstwhile) epicanthic fold might reveal one time Asian background. No two people though look alike.
If anything, the "typical" Polish look is certainly as much a mixture of Slavic, Germanic, and Celtic as it is of Mongolian:-)

@Lyzko
I often read about your typos :) very often.

So any links to articles and experts?

How about this lady?

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Ad nauseam, same tiered argument. Get a bigger hammer to get a big square peg into a small round hole. Why don't we discuss Eastern influence in western European countries, where you don't need a perfect 20/20 vision. Take Germany; for example, even if you are blind, follow the garlic aroma, and in the end, you will find Turkish or Arabic type for sure. In France, a more difficult task is to find the Nordic model than Arabic. You are more successful in your endeavor if you do try to determine which country is less contaminated by outside interference. My lists as follows: Island, Poland, Scandinavia, Baltic states, Slavic lands, rest of Europe does not qualified

BTW your eyes are going South again?