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Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture"


espana 17 | 910
31 Oct 2010 #211
Polack

please do not use this term in the forum it is derogatory and not very nice.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
31 Oct 2010 #212
I don't understand your point, could you give an example perhaps?

Hmm - what I mean is that it's surprising that they don't have more of a balanced opinion, because there's no reason for them to be fiercely defensive of Poland.

British media in world press left out the bits about the U.F.F, the red hand command, the U.V.F etc... and that the majority in Ireland are Irish not Unionists.
It didn't agree with them.

Tell me about it. I was reading some old articles - and you can clearly see that there was little to no recognition of what the Loyalists were doing. It's common knowledge now about collusion, but then?

(the more I read, the more I realise how utterly complicated NI is as a question, especially when you realise that successive Irish leaders had no real intention to unify Ireland)

While you stand up for the Star Spangled Banner, the OP jumps up for the Internationale.

Sorry, but I don't - I jump up for Ode to Europe instead.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
31 Oct 2010 #213
what I mean is that it's surprising that they don't have more of a balanced opinion, because there's no reason for them to be fiercely defensive of Poland.

Would that not work the opposite, that they would be fiercely defensive because that is the team they root for?

It's common knowledge now about collusion,

Is it? I have not heard a murmur of anything in the slightest that could be even remotely misinterpreted as giving me the faintest impression that this was even the seed of a concept in world media or even English media,

(see how far away I am trying to put it:)

Being brought up in Irish and British media, I found the bias disgusting.
Paradoxically of course, the world was well aware of how experienced Britain was at overpowering the media and I never experienced any bother outside of England.

I must make a note here and now that I am delighted that the war is over.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
31 Oct 2010 #214
Would that not work the opposite, that they would be fiercely defensive because that is the team they root for?

Well, I can understand it where both parents are Polish - but when they really are just your average American mutt, it's very odd. It's even stranger when they have a very mixed bloodline, yet they identify so strongly with Poland.

Is it? I have not heard a murmur of anything in the slightest that could be even remotely misinterpreted as giving me the faintest impression that this was even the seed of a concept in world media or even English media,

Yep, it's now being reported quite widely - not that anyone is surprised by it ;)

I think there's also an inquiry at the minute into IRA-Garda collusion too? The nicest thing I've read recently though was a proposal by some DUP guy - saying that Gardai should respond to things in border areas where the PSNI can't react quickly. Amazing, really.
Barney 15 | 1,476
31 Oct 2010 #215
Actually, what annoys me most is the way that they have such a poor grasp of history - they seem to believe that Poland always existed and that there's no way that Busha and Jaja could be from Russia - even when they were born in Russia.

Its simple Poland was a multi ethnic place. Being occupied didnt make them less Polish. Perhaps they haven't taken an absolutist view of history.

Actually, one thing that they often do (from what I can see) is ignore the bits of history that doesn't agree with what they want to hear.

Everyone does that as illustrated by your factually incorrect example.

Of course, but in their case, they have no real reason to.

Everyone creates a national narrative.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
31 Oct 2010 #216
Well, I can understand it where both parents are Polish - but when they really are just your average American mutt, it's very odd. It's even stranger when they have a very mixed bloodline, yet they identify so strongly with Poland.

Well, they are going to keep doing it anyway and they are going to have fun doing it regardless of you not understanding it or approving.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
31 Oct 2010 #217
Its simple Poland was a multi ethnic place. Being occupied didnt make them less Polish. Perhaps they haven't taken an absolutist view of history.

How do you know they were actually Polish? Speaking Polish didn't neccessarily mean they were Polish - after all, the Lithuanian elite spoke Polish.

Well, they are going to keep doing it anyway and they are going to have fun doing it regardless of you not understanding it or approving.

And we'll carry on ridiculing them and calling them "Polacks" and other offensive (to their oversensitive hearts) names.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
31 Oct 2010 #218
And we'll carry on ridiculing them and calling them "Polacks" and other offensive (to their oversensitive hearts) names

But why is it such a big deal to you? Who cares if you call them Polacks? What does it matter, anyway.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
31 Oct 2010 #219
but when they really are just your average American mutt, it's very odd.

Mutt? care to define that sir? :)

It's even stranger when they have a very mixed bloodline, yet they identify so strongly with Poland.

But it's not just bloodline, it's upbringing, it's what you are told you are, "never forget where you are from".

Although of course you do have a point where we have some (SOME) Americans on here going on about "blood lines" in such a varied "blood line" country as Poland.

But the same shite can be said about people from our countries...
It is culture or if you really want to water it down, "perceived culture" but is that not what culture is anyway, perception? identifying characteristics that run parallel?

Yep, it's now being reported quite widely - not that anyone is surprised by it ;)

Do I really have to come up with all those adverbs about how I have not heard anything about that? or could you just post any link?

the Lithuanian elite spoke Polish.

They also consider themselves Polish.
I lived there and mingled...
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
31 Oct 2010 #220
Who cares if you call them Polacks?

People like MediaWatch get very upset when you use the term Polack. It's highly amusing.

But why is it such a big deal to you?

I'm sick to death of the way that the American Polonia treat Poles. It's patronising, condescending and insulting in general.
Barney 15 | 1,476
31 Oct 2010 #221
How do you know they were actually Polish?

Because they said they were Polish and told their families that they were Polish.

the Lithuanian elite spoke Polish.

So you see how an absolutist view of history obscures things.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
31 Oct 2010 #222
Because they said they were Polish and told their families that they were Polish.

Doesn't mean a thing - they might have been half Polish, half Lemko.
Barney 15 | 1,476
31 Oct 2010 #224
they might have been half Polish, half Lemko.

I hope you are not suggesting that bloodlines define people.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
31 Oct 2010 #225
As you know it is upbringing not some fantasy bloodline.

Bingo. Yet many of them claim that they're 100% POLISH - which is utter nonsense when you look at how ridiculously messed up Polish history is.

I hope you are not suggesting that bloodlines define people.

Not me, but the American Polonia is rather fond of saying how much Polish blood they have. The line "100% POLISH BLOOD" seems to be quite common among the more ignorant ones.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
31 Oct 2010 #226
SeanBM As you know it is upbringing not some fantasy bloodline.

Yet many of them claim that they're 100% POLISH

But some were brought up 100% Polish just in America.
Barney 15 | 1,476
31 Oct 2010 #227
Bingo.

You have just tied yourself in a knot.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
31 Oct 2010 #228
But they were brought up 100% Polish.

But were they? Pledging allegiance to a foreign flag every morning doesn't strike me as being 100% Polish, for instance. And not speaking the language fluently - well, they always say that you need to know the language to understand the culture.

(heck, from what I gather, you need to know Irish to understand Hiberno-English!)

Anyway, the whole something-American thing is just snobbery, nothing more.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,386
31 Oct 2010 #229
You have just tied yourself in a knot.

seconded
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
31 Oct 2010 #230
Pledging allegiance to a foreign flag every morning doesn't strike me as being 100% Polish

Paying taxes in Poland makes you less Scottish? what about typing on a polish forums about how Polish people feel about their diaspora?

well, they always say that you need to know the language to understand the culture.

Do you speak Scottish Gaelic?
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
31 Oct 2010 #231
Paying taxes in Poland makes you less Scottish?

Can I use the cop-out that taxes paid in Scotland are given to the English oppressor?

Do you speak Scottish Gaelic?

Nope, there's no history of speaking it in my area. The North-East of Scotland never traditionally spoke it - we spoke Pictish, then moved to Scots - there was never any Gaelic dominance there.

What I mean though, is that often, the native culture of a country often influences the language. I found an absolutely fantastic essay a while ago online about how Irish influenced the English language there - I wish I could find it again :(
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
31 Oct 2010 #232
Can I use the cop-out that taxes paid in Scotland are given to the English oppressor?

Only as a Celt :)

Do you speak Scottish Gaelic?

Nope

You have already answered above :)

I wish I could find it again

Do.

Cultural identity is very interesting, especially how it changes.
People live and die because of it, some serious stuff, I am just trying to figure it out...
There is a very "Plastic" idea of culture in all countries.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
31 Oct 2010 #233
Cultural identity is very interesting, especially how it changes.

The really, really fascinating one for me at the moment is with the Northern Irish Protestants - they identify as being British, but so many Brits are now identifying themselves as Scottish/Welsh/English - so what's going to happen with them if the UK splits up? They don't really identify themselves as being from any one particular place.

This thread is wandering from the opening post.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
31 Oct 2010 #234
The really, really fascinating one for me at the moment is

The one for me is Islam, it means something very different to today's interpretation and perception.
Islamic countries in the past were places of real scientific advancement.
But I can see the PF hate crew with their talons drawn to type "how wrong I am". So I will save it for another time.

Ireland will be fine now we are not at war.

Edit*

This thread is wandering from the opening post.

Fair cop guv, Halloween and alll :)

Americans, bunch of mixed up folk who us Europeans love to hate to love :p
MediaWatch 10 | 945
1 Nov 2010 #235
Of course, but in their case, they have no real reason to. That's what makes it odd - you'd think that an American of Polish descent would be able to have a decent, critical viewpoint, but it seems that they have quite the opposite.

Polish Americans should have a critical viewpoint?

Such as?

What do you mean?
Piast Poland 3 | 182
1 Nov 2010 #236
Those that are people living in such places as North America, speak no polish, know nothing of polish history and at best has some distant polish great uncle is hardly polish. This is comparable to that disgraceful program jersey shore where they talk like americans, cant speak italian, and act like americans but say that they are italian. However if said person learns polish, polish history and at least visits poland than they could be considered polish. Those who are born in poland, to polish family are obviously polish. Even someone born to polish parents in america is polish, but it is vital to have a connection deeper than a name.

If a person moves away from poland it does not make them any less polish unless when faced with the decision of poland or america having chosen america. Even by some definitions they are still polish, but I would say somewhat traitorous.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
1 Nov 2010 #237
unless when faced with the decision of poland or america having chosen america. Even by some definitions they are still polish, but I would say somewhat traitorous.

As I can see, you live in Canada, so "you're still Polish" but somewhat "traitorous"? LOL
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
1 Nov 2010 #238
pinching pete wrote:

Conversely, I find it funny the amount of threads on PFs (started by Non-Americans.. you know people who've NEVER SET FOOT IN THE US) .. about the US. : /

yep.

I don't consider myself to be a patriotic guy, but there are few things more annoying than listening to people go on and on about the USA when they've either never stepped foot in the country or better yet, have been there once on some BS two week tour and now think they got the whole place figured out.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
1 Nov 2010 #239
This being Polish seems to be still very important to many of you, for how many I can't tell as where I live, I've never met anyone with Polish roots.

Ethnicity is most important in the major cities in the northeast and great lakes states, less so in the South and West. So in NC I would imagine ethnicity is non existent. Also the Polish settled in the cities of the Great Lakes: Chicago, Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo. Outside of these cities you'll find a smattering of Polaks but they're probably well assimilated, therefore indistinguishable from other Americans.
1jola 14 | 1,879
1 Nov 2010 #240
I don't consider myself to be a patriotic guy

...and why should you. You guys are lucky and no one is trying to take over your country.

BTW, I love your new money.


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