Why do you visit Poland?

Thank you Atch! Thank you gumishu! Good feedback.

Go to Płock! One of my favorite places in Poland! Great views of the Wisła (Vistula) lots of interesting old PRL architecture (last time I was there) and...

I'm not religious but Płock is the site of a couple of the more uplifting and bizarre manifestations of Polish catholicism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries....

One branch of my favorite heretical strain of Roman Catholicism is in Płock! The Marjawici (Mariavites).

Now there are two branches, the one close to the river has an interesting church built in a very non-Polish style, there's little difference between them and mainstream RC nowadays but still interesting especially if

The more interesting (and radical) branch is neaby in the countryside in Felicjanów. They had female priests, married priests, didn't take collections (the church should support itself and not leech off the population). They were all ex-communicated (possibly after a RC mole wrote a series of sensationalized articles on them).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariavite_Church

Płock is also where Jesus appeared to St. Faustyna

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faustina_Kowalska#P%C5%82ock_and_the_image_of_Divine_Mercy

Thanks mafketis! I am glad to hear that Płock will be a good place to visit with things to do if I need a break from the genealogy search.

Guess I'm naive but, based on my reading, I would not have expected to hear of Polish religious heretics. I would have put them in the same category as Latin American bobsled racers. It will be interesting to read about their beliefs.

Thanks again all! Enlightening information! Much appreciated.

How here's the big question: Was Kopernikus aka Kopernigk, aka Copernicus Polish or German?
After all, his home town is known by two official names, Torun or Thorn:-)

@To All:

Wife and I are planning a long-overdue trip to Europe some time next year. Stop No. 2 will include Poland!
(Famous last words...from our lips to G-d's earLOL)

what I know his mother was German - also there is no record of him writing anything in Polish (but Polish writing system hasn't been established by then if I recall correctly) - the city of Toruń was founded by the Teutonic Order if I recall correctly and the Knights attracted German settlers to their towns and cities (although the land Toruń was founded in was inhabited by Poles - even at the end of the World War 1 the majority of the area of Toruń was Polish from what I can gather) - Copernicus also belonged to the German fraternity when he studied in Italy

as for his Polishness - Polish sources claim that his father was Polish originating in Kraków - Kopernik looks like a Polish surname with roots in the German word for copper though - nik is a Slavic ending

i guess Copernicus understood (and probably spoke) Polish but probably identified as German

In the US we take a national census every 10 years. The records can help with genealogy, even though they aren't public for 72 years. Some members of my family have census records where they list their country of origin differently every 10 years. I was pretty frustrated at first. But as I read the history of the area it is entirely possible they were all telling the truth and all accurate. It depends on how the question was worded. "What country were you born in?" might have a different answer than "What country is your home town in?"

The stuff I see about Copernicus refers to Poland. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

@gumishu
At the same time he never studied at a German university -just Polish and Italian. And he took part in defence against the Teutons. In Frombork probably?

Toruń belonged to Poland despite a large German speaking community.

he commanded the defense of Olsztyn in the 1520 Polish-Teutonic order war - the thing is that the cities (with large German populations)(and not only the cities but also the gentry) of the lands later called Royal Prussia rebelled against the Teutonic Order long before (during the 13 year war that ended in 1453 or so) and chose to join the Polish kingdom with a lot of self-goverment though


not before the end of the 13 year war and the Toruń peace

So when Kopernik was born, Toruń belonged to Poland.
The idea of nationality was kind of vague back then afaik.

I think we are talking about his ethnicity here. It is worth noting that terms like 'nationality' are differently understood today in Poland and in Western Europe. 'Nationality' in the West is what we see as 'citizenship' in Poland. Our 'nationality', in turn, is what they see as 'ethnicity'. So the question is: was Copernicus ethically German as there is no doubt that he was, felt and he acted as a true citizen of Poland.

First, there was no such thing as 'Germany' in his time. Obviously, there was the Holy Roman Empire, but that wasn't exactly the same as 'Germany'. Second, the Teutonic Order was a unit of international nature with, yes, the majority of knights being of German origin. Third, the concept of a national state would look strange in the times of Copernicus (neither Poland nor Germany nor the Teutonic Order were national states at that time) as this concept is only a 19th century invention. You people seem to apply modern concepts to former times whereas the people of those former times did not see things and did not define themselves through these modern terms.

We can only and safely say that Copernicus was born 'Polish citizen' and bore allegiance to the Polish Crown which in modern terms would mean he had a Polish citizenship and held a Polish passport :-).


That's irrelevant. Latin was the language of universites at that time rather than German, Polish or Italian. Universities were in towns, so to speak, rather than in states.


For me, this is something talking in favor for his German ethnicity. Do you know if he had left behind any texts (letters, for example) written in German beside his well-known works in Latin?

Thanks to gumishu and kaprys.

@Ziemowit
I've know that Latin was used then. Duh. By why choose a Polish university if you don't consider yourself Polish?

*I know

Unless there were no 'German' universities that would equal the one in Kraków.

What do you guys think?

I don't think he would choose the university on that basis. It's more likely he would choose his centre of study based on its reputation, the particular teachers under whom he might have wanted to study, whether it contained a circle of like minded people etc.

Merged:

Visiting Poland/Leaving Poland.

I thought that this might be an interesting thread for people to share experiences from both sides.
Those of us who don't live in Poland to share our experience's of going to Poland and also for Polish residents to share their experiences of visiting other countries.

I have a somewhat lengthy intro.
My Mums parents moved to France from Poland between the two world wars.
So I have a lot of family in France and have visited that country every two or three years since I was a toddler.
My earliest memories of France was of a very different country from England, fascinating,different but quite backward and primitive,
I am talking about the early to mid sixties now.
In 1966, when I was 9 years old, we went to Spain.
The Fascists were still in power then and as a nine year old I hardly noticed.
Except for the policemen with funny hats and batons patrolling the beach to control nut salesmen and topless bathers....
Then in 1968, aged eleven, I went on a school cruise to Norway and The Netherlands and discovered two countries that in many ways were closer to the England that I knew.

After many years,in 1969 my dad at last got a British passport, before that he only had a travel document issued by the British Government, that was only valid in a few countries and not in Poland.....

So now we were going to Poland...... it was 1969, I was 12 years old, but fairly well travelled.......despite the warm reception we had from family in Poland.The shock was immense...... backward France and Fascist Spain just did not compare.......

After that, we visited every three years or so and I have witnessed the huge changes that Poland has experienced and endured.
I have not been to Poland for three years now, but it is no longer the same country I first visited as a child in 1969.

I am proud of Poles and of Poland for how they have changed the country since 1989.
And would be curious about other people's perceptions of Poland and also of Polish perceptions of other countries they have visited or lived in.

In 2017, Poland felt just like the US with the same stores and fast food places in the malls.

On day 2, I stopped asking "do you speak English" to avoid that duh! look.

It is a pity that Poland had become the laughing stock of Europe by the present government.

Who is laughing? The globalist scum like Merkel or the guys like BB and Milo?

Those who know Poland only from newspapers or TV, i.e. most Europeans.

Now tell me why...

What a ridiculous comment.
Nobody is laughing at Poland, all you will get is a few nervous laughs from the EU fanatics and globalists.

...LGBT's and kill 'em before they come out abortion rights scum.

@Miloslaw
My comment is everything but not ridiculous. You and I we know Poland very well, but many other people im Europa know Poland only from TV or newspapers and if you know they produce only negative news about Poland.

That's different from the way I read this comment:


...which typically would suggest that the object of derision deserves it.
I am glad we have it straight now.

@Novichok
I know it at least now and I'm glad that your heart beats for Poland.

I always will regardless of where I was born.
I will support any country Brussels parasites and other globalists have a problem with. And I don't any specifics to know which side is the good guys.

I don't know what your experience of life is outside of Poland but I feel strongly that you have misjudged people's perceptions..
If anything, Poles are regarded in higher esteem for being brave enough to stand up against the mouth that feeds them.....Brussels.....

Exactly. To cover up their own cowardice, globalist bootlickers will try their very best to put Poland down.

Brussel, Brussel... have you ever been there. It is a beautiful town and even more, it is a capital of Europe.

I was there around 10 years ago and it was not.... beautiful. I was staying about a 15 minute walk from mannekin pis and it was a mostly moroccan neighborhood... what I really remember was the trash, I don't know if it's a muslim, arab or moroccan thing but apparently they don't want to keep trash in their apartment (or are too dumb to learn the pickup schedule) so the sidewalks were _always_ lined with garbage bags....

Apart from that the EU section is just kind of anonymous and overly bureaucratic looking.

I was the guest of a Dutch-speaking institution although Dutch speakers have been driven almost entirely outside the city limits - people commuted (pretty long distances) to maintain some kind of presence. I heard more Moroccan, French and English (and everything else in that order) than Dutch on the streets.

There were some.... okay parts but nothing that amazing - kind of generic central western Europe.

The main impression it makes is alienation... a national government alienated from the population, which has balkanized into different groups that ignore or dislike each other* and a supra-national bureaucracy that seems to have no connection to anything around it.

your mileage may vary of course....

*French and Dutch speakers seem like an old unhappy marriage in which the spouses stay together only because working out the finances of a divorce would be too difficult, the Moroccans are doing their own thing and mostly don't care about anything else

@mafketis
And what about the old town square, it is the most beautiful in all of Europe, and you can also get around Brussels without traffic jam, whitch is offen impossible in other capitals. but, to tell you the truth, I would not want to live there either.