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Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa


OP Bobko
15 Jun 2023 #181
@jon357

So... today we will not get an answer from you re: why your countrymen hate Russia with such unique flair, despite the fact it is located at the opposite end of the Continent?
Ironside
15 Jun 2023 #182
Is there anything to like about Moscow?
jon357
15 Jun 2023 #183
why your countrymen hate ****** with such unique flair

Do they?

And what's to like about it?
jon357
15 Jun 2023 #184
Perhaps r*SSians should ask why pretty well every stable democracy loathe their behaviour.

Did you see the emaciated Ukrainian PoWs in the show trial today?

Have you seen the footage of the people in Bucha, shot with their hands behind their backs? The photos of whole families shot dead, children included with dried blood on the little girls' crotches?

Has anyone else deliberately blown a huge dam and shooting people (including women) trying to rescue the survivors?

Did you miss the deliberate flattening using thermobaric weapons of the theatre in Mariupol (you know, the one with "children inside" painted on the roof)...

Less of your trolling; trying to make excuses for genocide, child rape and senseless destruction does not reflect well on you.
GefreiterKania
16 Jun 2023 #185
Are you however in any doubt that r*SSia must not only be defeated

No doubt at all.

I'm just wondering where does the extra special hatred (to the point of not considering Russians to be human) come from. Germans and Ukrainians commited worse atrocities on Jews and Poles, and you don't seem to question their belonging to the human race.

Or is it only about a particular moment in history when some nationalities/ethnicities lose their right to call themselves humans which they regain later?
jon357
16 Jun 2023 #186
does the extra special hatred

Check out t(e difference between hatred and contempt. And then ask yourself if r*SSians as a nation are doing anything 'special' right now...

Germans and Ukrainians

At the moment?

Not many people like Pol Pot either (and he was far more recent) however he's dead and we aren't talking about them.

when some nationalities/ethnicities lose their right to call themselves humans

There you go again.

Are orcs (the uniformed killers who've descended on a peaceful country to kill and rape) human?

To repeat the question you're trying to dodge: Are you however in any doubt that r*SSia must not only be defeated but also put in a position where they can never invade a neighbouring country again?
Paulina
16 Jun 2023 #187
Is there any reason to think that I am plotting against the United States?

In your case - yes, because of your views, among others, it's a possibility. Also, the fact that your parents were in "diplomatic service" in the US makes me go: "hmmm"... 🤔

Pretty surprised about the level to which they were informed re: my social circle in New York

You wouldn't be so surprised if you lived in RuSSia... That makes me wonder... When did you move to the US?

I notice on this forum that it's almost always the Brits that are fire-breathing Russophobes.

What Brits? It seems to me that jon357 is the only Brit left on this forum...
As for jon357's "extra hatred"... It's due to his personal connection to Ukraine. Am I the only person on PF that pays attention to what people write on this forum? o_O
GefreiterKania
16 Jun 2023 #188
To repeat the question you're trying to dodge: Are you however in any doubt that r*SSia must not only be defeated but also put in a position where they can never invade a neighbouring country again?

I answered the question already but I shall repeat it again: I am in no doubt at all about it. That's exactly what has to happen.

Are orcs (the uniformed killers who've descended on a peaceful country to kill and rape) human?

I find this whole "orcs" thing very strange. Yes, soldiers you mention are human. Evil ones - yes, deserving of punishment - certainly, but human nonetheless.

Or do you think Belgians were not human when they commited the atrocities in Africa? Would you have written their nationality as "bel***nSS" back then and denied their belonging to the human race? What about the Armenian genocide - was is commited by people or "Turk*SSh orcs"?
jon357
16 Jun 2023 #189
I am in no doubt at all about it. That's exactly what has to happen

So we agree.

I find this whole "orcs" thing very strange

I don't. Ukrainians have a right to describe an armed and murderous horde who've descended on their country as they wish.

Or do you think Belgians were not human

As far as I know, they are not waging the most violent and vicious war in Europe since WWII at the moment.

So whataboutery, very popular among r*SSians as if it somehow justifies some of the obscenely inhuman things they are doing right now within driving distance of your home, is an argument that is weak to the point of irrelevance.
Paulina
16 Jun 2023 #190
Are orcs (the uniformed killers who've descended on a peaceful country to kill and rape) human?

Well, yes, RuSSian soldiers are humans, just like the Nazis who were running death camps were humans, unfortunately. Of course, we can call them "monsters" and say that what they did was "inhuman", but it doesn't change the fact that technically they were human beings and RuSSian soldiers are human beings too. F*cked up, but humans.

I find this whole "orcs" thing very strange.

I don't, because I remember my discussions with RuSSians - how they were comparing (ironically back then) RuSSia to Mordor, the West to Elves, etc. So, I find it pretty fitting that Ukrainians are calling them "orcs" now :) They defenitely deserved that nickname and RuSSia=Mordor too.
GefreiterKania
16 Jun 2023 #191
So we agree.

As far as our hopes for Russia's defeat are concerned, then I suppose we do agree. I do not, however, feel any hatred or contempt towards soldiers in this war (with the obvious exception of war criminals on the Russian side and bandero-nazis on the Ukrainian side), but rather sympathy towards them and their families - they are merely pawns on the chessboard.

RuSSia to Mordor, the West to Elves (...) Ukrainians are calling them "orcs" now :) RuSSia=Mordor too.

I'm too old for this Tolkienesque sh*t. There are people fighting on both sides and, with the exception of the two groups I mentioned before, they are neither better nor worse than we are.
Paulina
16 Jun 2023 #192
I'm too old for this Tolkienesque sh*t.

Well, that's your problem, "grandpa" *shrugs*

with the exception of the two groups I mentioned before

What "two groups"?
GefreiterKania
16 Jun 2023 #193
What "two groups"?

Russian war criminals and Ukrainian bandero-nazis (both being minorities in their respective armies).
Paulina
16 Jun 2023 #194
@GefreiterKania, so you think they're not people?

they are neither better nor worse than we are.

I'm afraid I'll have to disagree here. There's definitely something wrong with RuSSian society in general.
Paulina
16 Jun 2023 #195
I mean, Kania, come on... RuSSia invaded Ukraine, not Poland... RuSSians deny Ukrainians the right to have an independent country, their own nation, language, etc. There have been calls for genocide on RuSSian state TV, not on TVP... And you seriously think we're the same? Sure, Polish society isn't perfect either, we have our issues, but at this point in history I don't think we're as bad as RuSSians are. No, we're definitely not as f*cked up, sorry.
jon357
16 Jun 2023 #196
contempt towards

You don't feel contempt for people who are massacring civilians and raping people?

There's definitely something wrong with RuSSian society in general.

It's very hard to disagree with that. Extremely virtual repression, purges, mass deportations, man-made famines, oligarchs and many more things do not point to a healthy society.
OP Bobko
16 Jun 2023 #197
@jon357

Russia should consider itself lucky. What other country receives so much helpful advice, from careful observers all around the world.

People care about us, and our well being.
GefreiterKania
16 Jun 2023 #198
@jon357, @Paulina

Read again what I wrote: I don't feel contempt or hatred for soldiers who are neither war criminals nor neo-nazis.

As for all the childish Tolkienesque bullsh*t, it bores me. It was maybe a bit funny for the 1st, 10th or 100th time; now it's just tedious.
Paulina
16 Jun 2023 #199
Read again what I wrote: I don't feel contempt or hatred for soldiers who are neither war criminals nor neo-nazis.

I understood that, but I was asking whether you view those war criminals and neo-nazis as humans.

As for all the childish Tolkienesque bullsh*t, it bores me.

So? It's rarely used on PF and I doubt people are using it to entartain you or care about entartaining you...

whocares
GefreiterKania
16 Jun 2023 #200
whether you view those war criminals and neo-nazis as humans.

Yes, I do. As you said, even nazis were humans, and if we claim otherwise we turn into nazis ourselves.
jon357
16 Jun 2023 #201
Read again what I wrote: I don't feel contempt or hatred for soldiers who are neither war criminals

Since pretty well all of them are in one way or another, it's therefore straightforward to say that you do feel contempt for the.

Don't you feel contempt though for anyone marching into Ukraine in a uniform and with a gun and the intention of obeying war criminals' orders to subjugate people there?

childish Tolkienesque bullsh*t, it bores me

Nothing childish about it and the banal evil of r*SSians in Ukraine should bore you more.
GefreiterKania
16 Jun 2023 #202
pretty well all of them are in one way or another

I don't believe it's true.
jon357
16 Jun 2023 #203
Let's look at the evidence:
Trained killers - check
Carrying guns - check
Entered Ukraine illegally - check
Will kill on demand - check
Have no reason whatsoever to enter Ukraine- check
Kill anyone who lawfully attempts to protect them - check
GefreiterKania
16 Jun 2023 #204
Obeying orders is soldiers' job.

As long as they don't commit war crimes, there's nothing extraordinary about it.

As for legality of an invasion, it's not for soldiers to decide.
jon357
16 Jun 2023 #205
soldiers' job.

They'd better find a different job. Obeying orders is not a legal excuse.

They have entered Ukraine illegally, are in possession of weapons illegally and should be treated as the criminal scum that they are.

As for legality of an invasion

It isn't legal, isn't provoked and the r*SSian rabble do not have Ukrainian visas or stamped passports.
Alien
17 Jun 2023 #206
Yes, they should have applied for visas at the Ukrainian consulate before the invasion, and at the border they should have had their passports stamped by Ukrainian border guards before they shot them. Then everything would be legal. 🤔
jon357
17 Jun 2023 #207
Yes, they should have applied for visas at the Ukrainian consulate

Of course, and since they haven't, a few years of hard labour repairing the damage they've done should help mitigate it in a small way.

Never give in to force,
mafketis
17 Jun 2023 #208
At the Saint Petersburg International Economics Forum russia debuted its new Lada!

In a rare bit of honest advertising.... it didn't start....

twitter.com/layoutdokter/status/1670104830222761987
Alien
17 Jun 2023 #209
it didn't start....

Ha,ha, it's their style, the old one didn't start often either. Anyway, their latest tank "Armata" died and couldn't start again on a parade in Moscow and had to be towed away few years ago.
mafketis
29 Jun 2023 #210
In other news, the local government of Rostov decided to keep citizens on their toes by installing quicksand traps on the road....

twitter.com/the_ins_ru/status/1674463529838030854


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