Russian Views On Poland and Vice Versa

@jon357

So... today we will not get an answer from you re: why your countrymen hate Russia with such unique flair, despite the fact it is located at the opposite end of the Continent?

Is there anything to like about Moscow?

Do they?

And what's to like about it?

Perhaps r*SSians should ask why pretty well every stable democracy loathe their behaviour.

Did you see the emaciated Ukrainian PoWs in the show trial today?

Have you seen the footage of the people in Bucha, shot with their hands behind their backs? The photos of whole families shot dead, children included with dried blood on the little girls' crotches?

Has anyone else deliberately blown a huge dam and shooting people (including women) trying to rescue the survivors?

Did you miss the deliberate flattening using thermobaric weapons of the theatre in Mariupol (you know, the one with "children inside" painted on the roof)...

Less of your trolling; trying to make excuses for genocide, child rape and senseless destruction does not reflect well on you.

No doubt at all.

I'm just wondering where does the extra special hatred (to the point of not considering Russians to be human) come from. Germans and Ukrainians commited worse atrocities on Jews and Poles, and you don't seem to question their belonging to the human race.

Or is it only about a particular moment in history when some nationalities/ethnicities lose their right to call themselves humans which they regain later?

Check out t(e difference between hatred and contempt. And then ask yourself if r*SSians as a nation are doing anything 'special' right now...


At the moment?

Not many people like Pol Pot either (and he was far more recent) however he's dead and we aren't talking about them.


There you go again.

Are orcs (the uniformed killers who've descended on a peaceful country to kill and rape) human?

To repeat the question you're trying to dodge: Are you however in any doubt that r*SSia must not only be defeated but also put in a position where they can never invade a neighbouring country again?

In your case - yes, because of your views, among others, it's a possibility. Also, the fact that your parents were in "diplomatic service" in the US makes me go: "hmmm"... 🤔


You wouldn't be so surprised if you lived in RuSSia... That makes me wonder... When did you move to the US?


What Brits? It seems to me that jon357 is the only Brit left on this forum...
As for jon357's "extra hatred"... It's due to his personal connection to Ukraine. Am I the only person on PF that pays attention to what people write on this forum? o_O

I answered the question already but I shall repeat it again: I am in no doubt at all about it. That's exactly what has to happen.


I find this whole "orcs" thing very strange. Yes, soldiers you mention are human. Evil ones - yes, deserving of punishment - certainly, but human nonetheless.

Or do you think Belgians were not human when they commited the atrocities in Africa? Would you have written their nationality as "bel***nSS" back then and denied their belonging to the human race? What about the Armenian genocide - was is commited by people or "Turk*SSh orcs"?

So we agree.


I don't. Ukrainians have a right to describe an armed and murderous horde who've descended on their country as they wish.


As far as I know, they are not waging the most violent and vicious war in Europe since WWII at the moment.

So whataboutery, very popular among r*SSians as if it somehow justifies some of the obscenely inhuman things they are doing right now within driving distance of your home, is an argument that is weak to the point of irrelevance.

Well, yes, RuSSian soldiers are humans, just like the Nazis who were running death camps were humans, unfortunately. Of course, we can call them "monsters" and say that what they did was "inhuman", but it doesn't change the fact that technically they were human beings and RuSSian soldiers are human beings too. F*cked up, but humans.


I don't, because I remember my discussions with RuSSians - how they were comparing (ironically back then) RuSSia to Mordor, the West to Elves, etc. So, I find it pretty fitting that Ukrainians are calling them "orcs" now :) They defenitely deserved that nickname and RuSSia=Mordor too.

As far as our hopes for Russia's defeat are concerned, then I suppose we do agree. I do not, however, feel any hatred or contempt towards soldiers in this war (with the obvious exception of war criminals on the Russian side and bandero-nazis on the Ukrainian side), but rather sympathy towards them and their families - they are merely pawns on the chessboard.


I'm too old for this Tolkienesque sh*t. There are people fighting on both sides and, with the exception of the two groups I mentioned before, they are neither better nor worse than we are.

Well, that's your problem, "grandpa" *shrugs*


What "two groups"?

Russian war criminals and Ukrainian bandero-nazis (both being minorities in their respective armies).

@GefreiterKania, so you think they're not people?


I'm afraid I'll have to disagree here. There's definitely something wrong with RuSSian society in general.

I mean, Kania, come on... RuSSia invaded Ukraine, not Poland... RuSSians deny Ukrainians the right to have an independent country, their own nation, language, etc. There have been calls for genocide on RuSSian state TV, not on TVP... And you seriously think we're the same? Sure, Polish society isn't perfect either, we have our issues, but at this point in history I don't think we're as bad as RuSSians are. No, we're definitely not as f*cked up, sorry.

You don't feel contempt for people who are massacring civilians and raping people?


It's very hard to disagree with that. Extremely virtual repression, purges, mass deportations, man-made famines, oligarchs and many more things do not point to a healthy society.

@jon357

Russia should consider itself lucky. What other country receives so much helpful advice, from careful observers all around the world.

People care about us, and our well being.

@jon357, @Paulina

Read again what I wrote: I don't feel contempt or hatred for soldiers who are neither war criminals nor neo-nazis.

As for all the childish Tolkienesque bullsh*t, it bores me. It was maybe a bit funny for the 1st, 10th or 100th time; now it's just tedious.

I understood that, but I was asking whether you view those war criminals and neo-nazis as humans.


So? It's rarely used on PF and I doubt people are using it to entartain you or care about entartaining you...

Yes, I do. As you said, even nazis were humans, and if we claim otherwise we turn into nazis ourselves.

Since pretty well all of them are in one way or another, it's therefore straightforward to say that you do feel contempt for the.

Don't you feel contempt though for anyone marching into Ukraine in a uniform and with a gun and the intention of obeying war criminals' orders to subjugate people there?


Nothing childish about it and the banal evil of r*SSians in Ukraine should bore you more.

I don't believe it's true.

Let's look at the evidence:
Trained killers - check
Carrying guns - check
Entered Ukraine illegally - check
Will kill on demand - check
Have no reason whatsoever to enter Ukraine- check
Kill anyone who lawfully attempts to protect them - check

Obeying orders is soldiers' job.

As long as they don't commit war crimes, there's nothing extraordinary about it.

As for legality of an invasion, it's not for soldiers to decide.

They'd better find a different job. Obeying orders is not a legal excuse.

They have entered Ukraine illegally, are in possession of weapons illegally and should be treated as the criminal scum that they are.


It isn't legal, isn't provoked and the r*SSian rabble do not have Ukrainian visas or stamped passports.

Yes, they should have applied for visas at the Ukrainian consulate before the invasion, and at the border they should have had their passports stamped by Ukrainian border guards before they shot them. Then everything would be legal. 🤔

Of course, and since they haven't, a few years of hard labour repairing the damage they've done should help mitigate it in a small way.

Never give in to force,

At the Saint Petersburg International Economics Forum russia debuted its new Lada!

In a rare bit of honest advertising.... it didn't start....

twitter.com/layoutdokter/status/1670104830222761987

Ha,ha, it's their style, the old one didn't start often either. Anyway, their latest tank "Armata" died and couldn't start again on a parade in Moscow and had to be towed away few years ago.

In other news, the local government of Rostov decided to keep citizens on their toes by installing quicksand traps on the road....

twitter.com/the_ins_ru/status/1674463529838030854