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The EU's 1 Trillion Dollar Rescue Package


Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 May 2010  #31
How about China cashing in on all its bonds and divesting America, now that you are on the topic of fragility? ;) ;) They were even nice enough to ship back the steel you sent over for meltdown, you even got a warship to rub in the faces of New Yorkers. Talk about deals, ROTFL.

Company debentures tend to be on a much smaller scale than those treasury bonds.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
10 May 2010  #32
How much money would they get, Seanus?
OP FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
10 May 2010  #33
if you ask me, the entire EU is doomed to fail and the Greece issue is only the tip of the iceberg. too many countries with too many separate economic, cultural and idealistic views that eventually some countries that are doing well are going to get sick and tired of bailing out the weak. the USA has it's problems, sure, but they're all in it together and everyone is playing for the same team meaning everyone wants every state to succeed. in the EU, being ahead of the next country is simple competition, but when they get too far behind, they are obliged to write up a "bail out".
Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 May 2010  #34
Great point, FUZZY. Germany will grow tired of dipping into its coffers to bail out weaker states. Bulgaria is also doing some funny things with EU funds and Poland apparently didn't devote a sum allocated to sorting out its roads. I think the only thing that unites us is collective drunkeness ;)
OP FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
10 May 2010  #35
the whole world is drunk, man. everyone is feeling the drastic changes that are happening under everyone's noses. it's time for change and everyone's gotta be in on it.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
10 May 2010  #36
I'll drink to that :)
southern 75 | 7,097
10 May 2010  #37
Greece is condemned.It cannot compete.Only Balkan way is destruction.We need to destroy the old forms.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 May 2010  #38
My wife did her part by buying a 6 pack of Mythos beer. It's not bad :) 3 Euro back into Greece :)
southern 75 | 7,097
11 May 2010  #39
It is not very good beer especially compared to polish.Our wine is good.
bolek 6 | 330
11 May 2010  #40
the entire EU is doomed to fail and the Greece issue is only the tip of the iceberg

Have to agree, the eu is socialism at its best, rich countries helping out the poor ones, the German people for one are sick and tired at helping out the lazy countries who don't want to work. It is hoped that Poland refuse to change its currency to the euro, as it is only a matter of time when the EU will fall apart.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
11 May 2010  #41
Everybody buy PIIGGS exports and there will be no recession.
southern 75 | 7,097
11 May 2010  #42
Everybody buy PIIGGS exports

If only we had some women to export.Just joking.But buy greek agricultural products.They are top.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
11 May 2010  #43
It works like this. Some brainiac professor (about 30 years ago) teaching MBA courses thought up the idea that corporations can increase profitability by cutting labor costs. So they focused on importing Chinese stuff and cut domestic labor costs further by employing illegal immigrants.

What this does in the long run is that it destroys the corporation's market. If labor costs are cut across the board, no one has the money to buy the products or services that the corporation is providing. So the only way the corporation can maintain profitability is for the government to lower interest rates and provide "cheap credit". This is why the governments' balance sheets are in such disarray. No one can afford to buy anything. No purchases, no taxes. Germany isn't bailing out Greece, they're bailing out the entire financial system. We're going to have to maintain cheap money until we start manufacturing our own stuff and paying higher wages. We have no other choice.
OP FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
11 May 2010  #44
PlasticPole wrote:

Everybody buy PIIGGS exports and there will be no recession.

it almost feels like an unfair request. a few countries start failing and instead of being held accountable for it, other countries should start buying their products to bring them back? if Pepsi starts failing, should Coca Cola start buying Pepsi stock to "help them out"?

like......reverse capitalism? it's not how mankind works.

Bolek wrote:

as it is only a matter of time when the EU will fall apart.

which is recipe for conflict (trying to avoid the "W" word). history shows that European countries don't play well together. maybe America is on the right track keeping all those troops in Germany :O
Wroclaw Boy
11 May 2010  #45
It seems to me that countries are running to the IMF these days to borrow 100,s of billions in the same fashion as a couple needing a mortage would visit a bank.

Banking on the highest level, the big boys at the top although making the most money with these international bale out packages must be getting nervous that the whole system is flawed. These huge loans are exposing the flaws, the icing on the cake if you will.

The whole system will come crashing down, it just cant survive.
bolek 6 | 330
11 May 2010  #46
These huge loans are exposing the flaws, the icing on the cake if you will.

Its only ink and paper, one day one US dollar will be worth a million euro or the like, remember in Poland not so long ago when a million zlote was worth nothing. Time to buy up gold./ me thinks
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 May 2010  #47
It's almost the hundred year anniversary of the Federal Reserve. These cretins have been involved in dirty deals for most of that time. Obama still kept Bernanke in, surely that says sth.
southern 75 | 7,097
11 May 2010  #48
I see everywhere the most incompetent people in the highest positions.And they expect us to... help them?Dream on.Here is no Germany there is no whip to make us help them.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
11 May 2010  #49
Socialist democracies don't work; in fact, anything with the word socialist in it doesn't work. Portugal is next......after that Italy.......etc

Yet, that's what Obama wants for the U.S.A. When will they ever learn?
OP FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
11 May 2010  #50
Zimmy wrote:

Yet, that's what Obama wants for the U.S.A. When will they ever learn?

regardless whether it will work or not, you still cannot compare the USA to the EU. The EU is comprised of several different countries with different cultures, languages, political views and self interests. This is a network of countries that are competing with each other yet at the same time.....working together.

America is one country, one passport, one dominant language, 1 government meaning everyone is paying into the same federal tax system so everyone is in the same boat cheering on all 50 states to do well.

If Obama successfully socializes the American health care system, it will be Americans paying for Americans. If I were an Italian, I wouldn't want to be paying for hip surgery for some dude in....oh....i don't know.....Poland.

America doesn't have to....for example....bail out Canada if their economy starts going in the toilet.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 May 2010  #51
FUZZY has a good point again here. There shouldn't be a penalty through a bailout issue for those states which progress well like Germany. Why should they take it on the chin? Why not Austria? That's where Hitler was from ;) ;) ;)
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
11 May 2010  #52
you still cannot compare the USA to the EU.

Of course countries have their own cultures; personalities if you will......

Problem is; socialism doesn't care. It's an equal opportunity poison that'll ruin any country.

If Obama successfully socializes the American health care system, it will be Americans paying for Americans. If I were an Italian, I wouldn't want to be paying for hip surgery for some dude in....oh....i don't know.....Poland.

Some people in Arkansas may not want to pay for someone in California, a state which is in high debt. Some people in Montana may not want to bail out Illinois, another state in financial trouble, etc. America's 10th Amendment gives state's rights a lot of latitude. People like Obama want to take that away.

America doesn't have to....for example....bail out Canada

Yea, but we would, after all, Canadians are American light.

Why not Austria? That's where Hitler was from

Hitler was born in Austria but his ancestry was German (well, possibly 1/4 Jewish).
delphiandomine 83 | 17,658
11 May 2010  #53
If I were an Italian, I wouldn't want to be paying for hip surgery for some dude in....oh....i don't know.....Poland.

Which is the entire point of the EU, so that people don't see themselves as paying for Italians, or Germans, or whatever - they pay for Europeans.

Most people with power realise that Europe cannot afford another war and that the only real solution is ever-closer integration. They're already talking about greater powers over countries to avoid a repeat of the Greek situation - no bad thing in my view.

Right now, my prediction is that we may see some countries dropping out of the Euro, but the countries that remain in will surrender more of their fiscal powers in exchange for stability.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,752
11 May 2010  #54
Which is the entire point of the EU, so that people don't see themselves as paying for Italians, or Germans, or whatever - they pay for Europeans.

Only if the other can and want to reciprocate...if that isn't the fact and the support goes always only one way the whole system is bound to break some time.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
11 May 2010  #55
...if....the support goes always only one way the whole system is bound to break some time.

Under socialism everyone will be equal. That is, equally poor.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
11 May 2010  #56
Which is the entire point of the EU, so that people don't see themselves as paying for Italians, or Germans, or whatever - they pay for Europeans.

It is one of the first times that the average German and French taxpayer realises that they are expected to fund the whole show when things turn sour. When the average French worker starts to get undercut by cheap labour droids from eastern europe and his short working week and long holidays are under threat, we will see just how "good europeans" the French actually are.

Now we must hope for Turkish and Serbian accession. That should bring down the house of cards.
Marek11111 9 | 816
11 May 2010  #57
it's not about helping or bailing out other countries it's about French, German, Switzerland, England stock market

businessinsider.com/who-got-saved-by-the-euro-bailout-2010-5#french-banks-represent-over-25-of-claims-thats-why-the-cac-40-is-up-9-1
Seanus 15 | 19,706
11 May 2010  #58
Well, that's part of it, Marek. It really is more multi-layered than people see. Just think of how senior business people react and behave on a micro scale. I remember babysitting and the CEO of a company coming back drunk and throwing any old note at me. I was a teenager but agreed on a general rate. It was just paper to him. I felt it to be a power thing and told him that I wasn't there to be bought. We don't need a big brother approach, we need people to learn lessons for themselves.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
12 May 2010  #59
So they focused on importing Chinese stuff and cut domestic labor costs further by employing illegal immigrants.

They are able to do this because our currencies are strong. If we devalued our own currency we could easily find markets and export. It would be a boom. We would experience difficulties of another nature. We wouldn't be able to afford many luxury items.
Marek11111 9 | 816
12 May 2010  #60
zimmy
Under socialism everyone will be equal. That is, equally poor.

you are thoroughly a idiot and I am not saying this base on this post but many others you did, you luck of understanding of economical issues and policies.

if you take time and research a companies that are run by democratic vote then you will see happy profitable work place not ruled by C.E.O.

what is good for company is good for a worker, what is good for one person is not good for a company

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