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The EU's 1 Trillion Dollar Rescue Package


bolek 6 | 330
12 May 2010  #61
Under socialism everyone will be equal. That is, equally poor.

wrong, the elite will be rich and the rest will have at least a job and food on the table.
Pinching Pete - | 558
12 May 2010  #62
This is your idea of a life fulfilled.. food on the table? Capitalism is a tough master sometimes but at least he'll give you a dream or two. Socialism is a noose on Europe's neck.
z_darius 14 | 3,969
12 May 2010  #63
Capitalism is a tough master sometimes but at least he'll give you a dream or two.

Yeah, we have seen lots of those dreams.
Foreclosed.

.
Pinching Pete - | 558
12 May 2010  #64
A small percentage are...but hey.. you keep paying taxes on your taxes . I always know a Canadian by that glum half frown on their face. Hopeless and joyless, hating the Yankee.. and envying in the same breath.

Life is chance ultimately.. you cannot legislate that away.. no matter what your Limey master tells you.
z_darius 14 | 3,969
12 May 2010  #65
A small percentage are...but hey.. you keep paying taxes on your taxes

Yup, and we get to keep our homes and we didn't have to pay a penny to bail out thieves a.k.a. banks.

and envying in the same breath.

Why would anyone envy foreclosures?
Are you some kind of a masochist?

Well, keep on living in the past. America is owned by the communist China and terrorist Saudis anyway. The commies out-tricked you big time so the joke is on you.
Pinching Pete - | 558
12 May 2010  #66
Interesting.. how much you champion the "commies". Peace and prosperity they brought to your homeland, right? Nothing like waiting a whole Saturday for toilet paper. Exactly why you stayed? If hypocrisy had a mascot.. you'd be it. You tired old , douche.

We have will 5 years of pain.. you had 5 decades. Kick those tires.
OP FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
12 May 2010  #67
bolek:

wrong, the elite will be rich and the rest will have at least a job and food on the table.

this is essentially the difference between Americans and most Europeans. say this to an American and you'll get this answer

This is your idea of a life fulfilled.. food on the table?

every time.

z darius wrote:

Yup, and we get to keep our homes and we didn't have to pay a penny to bail out thieves a.k.a. banks.

what homes? certainly in Poland, who owns a home? aside from old people living in Eastbumble Pole Wielkie village, I don't know anyone who owns a home personally excluding of course my rich students. the rest grew up crammed into a 50 sq. meter flat with their siblings and parents and still live in a little apt. 25, 30, 35, 40 years old, living in a little apt.

and for what it's worth, this week is a baaaaad week to bring up bailouts darius. hint hint, take a look at the title of this thread. spending money is spending money, sure, but countrymen bailing out their own country is fundamentally different than one country having to bail out another.
bolek 6 | 330
12 May 2010  #68
Capitalism is a tough master sometimes but at least he'll give you a dream or two. Socialism is a noose on Europe's neck.

alas, dream on pete, as most people dream on and it gets them no where, the point of the exercise is that no matter what system you believe in there will always be the small percentage of people who will do well and the majority will have to support the rich or ones better off. Understand that no one system is ideal, it all depends where YOU are coming from. Socialism is fairer than the capitalistic system, lets please agree on this one.
z_darius 14 | 3,969
12 May 2010  #69
@FUZZYWICKETS

Nice post.
But the fool above me wasn't writing about Poland, or even EU.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,648
12 May 2010  #70
certainly in Poland, who owns a home?

Plenty of people do. I'm wondering exactly who you are teaching (though it explains why you complain on Dave's ESL about struggling to live on 3000-4000zl a month - you're obviously not doing well!) - but most of my clients own their own flats or houses quite comfortably. In fact, I can only count one of my clients who doesn't own her own place - and that's because she's a student.

25, 30, 35, 40 years old, living in a little apt.

Perhaps the fact that there isn't actually much housing stock, combined with the fact that it's more desirable in Poland to live in cities than in villages might have something to do with it?
OP FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,884
12 May 2010  #71
Delphiandomine wrote:

Plenty of people do. I'm wondering exactly who you are teaching (though it explains why you complain on Dave's ESL about struggling to live on 3000-4000zl a month - you're obviously not doing well!) - but most of my clients own their own flats or houses quite comfortably. In fact, I can only count one of my clients who doesn't own her own place - and that's because she's a student.

what........in the world.......are you talking about.

I never have, and never will understand the motivation behind your posts. I'd be willing to put money on it that you pleasure yourself to a map of Poland every night. You truly boggle the mind, Mikey.

how's Lindenia doing?
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
12 May 2010  #72
Let the markets run their natural course. Default, default, default.
richasis 1 | 419
12 May 2010  #73
Simple: Money is Debt.

Now, we are all rich :)
MareGaea 29 | 2,752
12 May 2010  #74
Hey, good news: Estonia is entering the Euro zone on 1 January 2011. When is Poland going to enter?

>^..^<

M-G (saddened by the deaths of 103 ppl in the plane crash, but I guess one Polish kid that gets stabbed by coincidence is more important)
Marek11111 9 | 816
12 May 2010  #75
there will not be Euro zone on 1 January 2011, the house of cards will collapse
kondzior 9 | 949
12 May 2010  #76
Socialism is fairer than the capitalistic system, lets please agree on this one.

Are you out of your mind? Socialism is the most evil system ever created. Socialism means hopelessness, hunger and oppression. I was born under socialism, now I live under capitalism. You know what, capitalism is haven.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
12 May 2010  #77
Socialism is a noose on Europe's neck.

Doesnt actually exist in Europe, just because we believe that everyone has a right to free health care, doesnt mean we believe that everyone should be equal, we believe if you work hard you can make something of yourself.

there will not be Euro zone on 1 January 2011, the house of cards will collapse

Please explain why, I'm dying to know?

Socialism is fairer than the capitalistic system, lets please agree on this one.

To whom? Its not fair on someone who asperations and the willingness to change their circumstances.

My brother is a socialist (been a member of the SWP for over 25 years) - he lives in a very nice 4 bedroomed house, both him and his wife drive nice cars and when their daughter couldnt get a place in a school of their choice they were going to send her to private school...we call him a "silk shirt socialist" ...As I have said there is no such thing as a socialist!

the point of the exercise is that no matter what system you believe in there will always be the small percentage of people who will do well and the majority will have to support the rich or ones better off.

Hmmm...let me think,

Year 2010-11

Basic rate: 20% £0-£37,400
Higher rate: 40% £37,401-£150,000
Additional rate: 50% Over £150,000

There are plenty of people earning over £150K in the UK who are supporting those on lower income who get all sorts of tax credits - for you to even suggest that the poor are supporting the rich is laughable!!!

This new goverment are about to abolish tax for those earning £10K and under - its rediculous! Who do you think will be footing that bill? You see the harder you work the more you earn the more you get taxed...
SouthMancPolak - | 104
12 May 2010  #78
Socialism is fairer than the capitalistic system, lets please agree on this one

Depends on how you define "fairer".

If it means that people who worked hard for their qualifications are forced to support the stupid, lazy or useless through high taxes, then yes, that's "fairer".

If someone breaks the law by getting pregnant underage and is rewarded with benefits and free housing for decades, while someone who can't afford to have kids pays high taxes to support the aforementioned benefit-breeder, yet cannot afford a decent place of their own, than that's "fairer".

If someone who works hard and runs a business, but is denied life-saving cancer drugs and dies, while junkies are given methadone and housing free, then that's "fairer".

If you support a Government which believes that if someone won't work, then someone else can support them through taxes, resulting in both having a similar disposable income (despite the fact that the latter had to work all week to get it), then that's "fairer".

If someone who worked hard to get an education and earns a decent salary can only afford to flatshare, while unemployed recent immigrants (or unemployable layabouts) are given a house with a garden by the council, then that's "fairer".

If that's "fairer", then I'd rather live in a system that's "less fair", thank you very much. And those of us who helped vote the socialists out last week obviously agree!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 May 2010  #79
Amathyst, different people believe different things. The New World is moving towards quasi-communism with rampant capitalism, a strange mix.

If you are to look at the 'ideal' system of equality, communism, then we can see how the same applies as in capitalism. The nature of humanity makes us strive for more than others. Look at Animal Farm, so much truth there. There were so many greedy bast*ards in communism. Look at how 'socialist' Labour fared. It's all a joke!
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
12 May 2010  #80
Everyone needs a mixed economy. We need rampant capitalism with a cup of socialism.
1jola 14 | 1,879
12 May 2010  #81
Like in China?
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
12 May 2010  #82
Look at how 'socialist' Labour fared

They were never socilasts!!!! - labour councils have sent everything out to tender to private companies - they no longer have the "direct works" - I think they called it streemlining, it certainly isnt socialism..They took up where the Concervatives left off and sold everything off!!

If you are to look at the 'ideal' system of equality,

It doesnt exist, look at China? look at North Korea?

There were so many greedy bast*ards in communism.

Of course they could control the wealth and those beneath were unable to climb, whereas with capitalism a man from a working class background can become a millionair!
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
12 May 2010  #83
What? China is a communist country which happens to be a republic.
Bzibzioh
12 May 2010  #84
I think Europe is about to wake up and realize that we just can't live on borrowed money forever. Those wonderful social programs - we can't afford them anymore. I wonder which party in any country will have the guts to say it first and start scrapping them out and ... survive the next election. Very interesting times.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
12 May 2010  #85
Communist Countries
Country Population

1. China 1,330,040,064
2. Cuba 11,424,000
3. Laos 6,677,530
4. Korea, North 23,479,100
5. Vietnam 86,116,600

Would you live in one of these countries?

aneki.com/communist.html

What? China is a communist country which happens to be a republic.

It would appear so.

I think Europe is about to wake up and realize that we just can't live on borrowed money forever. Those wonderful social programs - we can't afford them anymore. I wonder which party in any country will have the guts to say it first and start scrapping them out and ... survive the next election. Very interesting times.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

When the government spends more than it receives in tax revenue, it borrows the rest by issuing US Treasury Securities. The United States public debt, or the national debt, is the sum of all these outstanding securities.[1] It should not be confused with the trade deficit, which is the difference between net imports and net exports. State and Local Government Series securities, issued by state and local governments, are not part of the United States government debt.[2]

At the end of first quarter of 2010, the gross debt was 87.3% of GDP, of which 56.6% was held by the public, and 44.4% was intra-governmental.[3] Within the remainder of this article the phrase "Public Debt" is employed as a shorthand for "Debt Held by the Public".

Sorry what were you saying? China owns America :D
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
12 May 2010  #86
Would you live in one of these countries?

No.
Marek11111 9 | 816
12 May 2010  #87
we do not have socialism in this world what we have is some communist states and capitalist state
the word socialism in main stream media is referring to a social net that if **** hit the fan the social net catch you
will not let you die on a street or if you get sick and not able to work state provided health care will heal you

and make sure you will not lose everything you work for.
in Europe you have a good social net to keep population healthy and innovative as state provide services to tax payer
in united states you do not have good social net all you have is idiots screaming and repeating fox news lies
in united states 80% bankruptcies are due to healthcare costs and tax payer gets new wars for their money
the big corporations do not pay any taxes in united states the tax burden is only on middle class and poor citizens
but if you watch news especially fox you would think the Obama is a socialist or communist
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649
12 May 2010  #88
When I think of deficit, I think the amount of money the govt borrows to pay for government spending. Of course, the greater your GDP, the more taxes the govt collects which funds it various programs, so a trade deficit can be connected to a govt that's deeply in debt.
Bzibzioh
12 May 2010  #89
Sorry what were you saying?

So Europe is OK because US is in similar trouble? Your denial is the best illustration of the problem.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 May 2010  #90
That's why I said 'socialist' Labour, Amathyst. New Labour was always on the cards.

That's why I said 'ideal' communism, Amy. 'Czy się stoi, czy się leży, dwa tysiące się należy', Amathyst. It worked effectively in that way but the top guys would always wangle the system and go against its ethos.

The self-made person hardly existed. Shafting the system was the way.

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