Did you notice that Poles usually felt inferior to every ethnic group of Western Europe but now they act like they are superior to Greeks, Portuguese, Spaniards etc.? They often say things like "these lazy PIIGS from Southern Europe should learn from Poles discipline and work ethics". In fact, Poles start to act like they were Nort-western Europeans of some kind... Shame that this is only their point of view because everywhere in Western Europe Poland is seen as Eastern Europe and even worse than Southern European countries. Do you find it pathetic?
"these lazy PIIGS from Southern Europe should learn from Poles discipline and work ethics".
Is that what bothers you? Well the state of your Greek economy as it stands is a reflection on the Greek society as a whole and of your work ethics. Simply try to do better in the future.
Poles are very mixed in how they perceive themselves. That's why they look to foreigners sometimes. Some feel pessimistic and inferior whilst others feel distinctly superior. It can run along the lines of colour, work ethics or GDP etc etc. The OP likely came into contact with the latter but I don't imagine that most Poles feel superior to southern Europeans.
No, I've never heard anyone in Poland saying that others should learn discipline and work ethics from them. I myself would never call Southern Europeans lazy p(i)igs. Italy is a country of good style, for example. Well, I might have been extremely surprised to learn that the state authorities of Greece falsified their statistics in reporting Greek economy to the European Commission, something that I don't expect to happen in Poland after all, but that doesn't make me look down at the people of Greece.
On the other hand, I've found several Southern Europeans on this forum to frequently ask questions during the more earlier stages of this Greek crisis of this kind: "When is Poland going to collapse on the financial front?" without even having been looking at the economic data on which they could have based their assumptions. That was rather a clear sign of their feeling superior to Poland, in the same way as the repeated insistance of a certain King Athelstan that Poland is in Eastern Europe might be a sign of a similar hidden inferiority complex of that person.
No, I don't find either those Southern Europeans or King Athelstan pathetic. I find them amusing.
Well, rama, in Polish PIIGS would go like that: PIWGH. This abbreviation means nothing in Polish and don't resemble any word (except piwo maybe...), so as you see there is no reason to panic ;-)
On more serious note though, Poles maybe are a little shocked when they learn about some mismanagement cases in Greece, which are unimaginable even in Poland ;-)
I am Latvian and I must admit I DO SOMETIMES feel superior to other nationalities but it is not restricted to southern Europeans. I actually think that as a Latvian I am better then any other race and nationality in UK including Poles, Portugese, English etc. Sorry guys I cannot help myself and I DO THINK that lots of other immigrants and locals are nothing more then scumbags.
I cannot help myself and I DO THINK that lots of other immigrants and locals are nothing more then scumbags.
you might have a self esteem problem or be at that normal transitive stage that immigrants go through where they perceive themselves as superior to those around them.
Every now and then it seems that someone makes a ridiculous titled assumption which is then commented on by regular posters. Possibly, it's the same immature person who posts most of these inane titles. The posted propositions are not worth commenting on. The person making them is childlike and probably has a low IQ.
Seanus, women of all nationalities are becoming hotter and hotter for you :))
Poles cannot be arrogant. Vanity is not Slavic illness. Envy is.
Kolakowski wrote in one of his essays, I forgot which one, a story about Russian peasant, that can be generalized to Serbs and Croats surely and I suspect it could be perhaps applied to other Slavs as well.
paraphrasing Kolakowski's story:
God said to a Russian peasant :" I will make one of your wishes come true, but be aware, whatever you wish for yourself, i will double that for your neighbor", the peasant's answer was " God take then one of my eyes" :) (folks wisdom, you have to love it)
Envy. Westerners have a different approach to it. "Good for you", positive envy, making you move forward, become competitive in let's say less destructive ways.
Poles usually felt inferior to every ethnic group of Western Europe but now they act like they are superior to Greeks, Portuguese, Spaniards etc.?
My mom (here in States) and aunt (in Poland) say that Greeks ans Italians are lazy asses and womanizers nothing more. As for superior, I think it's that Poland a "new" Europe nation doesn't even come close to having the problem Greece has that's been free for much longer.
God said to a Russian peasant :" I will make one of your wishes come true, but be aware, whatever you wish for yourself, i will double that for your neighbor", the peasant's answer was " God take then one of my eyes" :) (folks wisdom, you have to love it)
Ironically the story well pictures Polish attitude towards the Russians, whether it's vanity, envy or perhaps jaundice. There are loads of alike stories from the other end though.
I am Latvian and I must admit I DO SOMETIMES feel superior to other nationalities but it is not restricted to southern Europeans. I actually think that as a Latvian I am better then any other race and nationality in UK including Poles, Portugese, English etc. Sorry guys I cannot help myself and I DO THINK that lots of other immigrants and locals are nothing more then scumbags.
Too bad very few of the Teutonics would have a gut to tell that to face. The humankind could have avoided lots of wars.
Did you notice that Poles usually felt inferior to every ethnic group of Western Europe but now they act like they are superior to Greeks, Portuguese, Spaniards etc.? They often say things like "these lazy PIIGS from Southern Europe should learn from Poles discipline and work ethics".
another case of inferiority complex in a different form IMO. Just an observation.
Why would any person feel superior to someone because of an irrelevance like nationality? Maybe that person has nothing else to offer.
Common sense at last!! No human being is superior because of their race! Depends on you as a person! There are good and bad things about all countries and cultures.
Let me set things clear. I am Greek, living with a Polish gf in Athens, thinking maybe moving to Poland in the close future. I ll try to be 100% objective.
The attitude of Polish people towards Greeks at least has changed and that's obvious by newspapers and I can refer you to 2 electronic sources, that by Polish parts I would like to comment on:
1) Facebook group : Nie Chce Grecji w Polsce 2) Blog: greekcoffee.blox.pl
Concerning who is lazy and who is not, checking some Eurostat numbers will illuminate you: 1) Greek private employees work in papers 40hrs per week as in Poland, but according to statistics an average Greek works 2.118 hrs per year, while a German 1.500 and a Spaniard 1.800. The public sector in Poland works 9-16 and in Greece 8-15 so just the same. Otherwise your bureaucracy is much more unflexible while registering (not starting) a bussiness in Poland takes 36 days while in Greece takes 4. Taking a work permit in Poland (pobity card takes 2-3 months) here IKA registration for EU citizens takes 1 day.
2) Economy-Development. Its true Poland last 4 years runs with an average 4-4,5% while Greece downgrades to - 5,5%. Still with these rates the average Greek GDP is 22.000 Euro ( 2010) while the average Polish 14.000 Euro. So still to counterbalance the income, with simplistic mathematic calculations and with todays data it need 9-10 years. The Greek income taxation is escalating from 0 -40% while in Poland starts from 30% and the max is 40%. In practice somebody that earns gross 1.500euro in Greece net pays 2.500 euro income and insurance tax while in Poland 6.000 on a year basis. Let me remind you that in Poland you have 13 salaries yearly and Greece has 14.
Its true that Poland has a high rate of foreign investment. Greece doesnt so much. But Internationalisation always works both ways. I mean its good to have foreign investment but also to have international presence. In rich Poland, poor Greece runs at the moment 2.500 enterprises in very very strategic sectors
FMCG: Coca Cola ( 3 epsilon in mother company), Frigoglass, Vivartia, Pyramis, Chipita. IT-Telecom: Velti, Mellon group, Germanos (playmobile) Banking: Postbank Gaming: just a game, Intralot (totolotek) Maritime: over 100 companies of Greek interest operate in Polish ports.
Tell me how many Polish companies operate in Greece ( not skleps and bakeries)? In Italy? In Spain?
About Greeks in Poland: The Greeks that live in Poland belong to 3 categories
1) The ancestors of the fugitives of the Greek civil war that fled there in 40's 2) Professionals that their company transmitted them there 3) Students, erasmus or people who migrate for other personal reasons (friends, gf's).
There are not more than 3-4 thousands of greeks in poland while in Greece the last research shows that 60.000-70.000 Poles live.
As an economist I will give you my explanation. The countries acceded the EU in 2004, entered with hard conditionality so they had really to be attentive to their fiscal and financial policy. That's why Poland presents a low deficit and a low external debt. Countries of S. Europe are human-centered, they dont care so much on fiscal policy than social policy. The question is in what kind of country you want to live?
Because lets face one globally accepted fact about economics: There are 3 factors of development: Earth, capital, labor. I would add technology as well. Poland is based in labor. The foreign investment comes because of low working labor and flexible working environment (low rents, low taxation). At the same time, the states strict fiscal policy applies high taxes. That's how development and fiscal stability is achieved.
And how is this reflected to average Polish person's life? Did you see yr level of living improving? Yr buying force growing? Are the prices growing higher that yr salaries? You ll see what will happen if you enter Eurozone...
So guys, everybody is proud or not proud on his country about some things. You are proud of you development and compliance to mother - EU. Being arrogant to the bad children of her, wont make you "more Royal than the King himself".
Ironically the story well pictures Polish attitude towards the Russians, whether it's vanity, envy or perhaps jaundice. There are loads of alike stories from the other end though.
Yes I do math so: 11 millions / 65.000 avg middle makes 1 Pole for 170 Greeks, while 38 millions / 4 thousands make 1 Greek every 9.500 Poles. So it seems that Poles are migrating to Greece and not the contrary.
In Germany, there are 1.000.000 Greeks and around 2.500.000 Poles, so according to the country population, Greeks tend to migrate to Germany more than the Poles.
If you believe that social policy is the reason of debt crisis let me elaborate with numbers.
Greece has 800.000 public employees, by averagely 1.200 euro/monthly makes 11,5 bn euro yearly. Compared to GDP is 5% of it. Its still high but not the root of the problem.
Imagine that our defense expenditure accounts up to 7% of it, while our payback interests account up to 22%.
Greece indeed has screwed up badly but let me remind you that the biggest responsibility accounts for the wise-heads of the EU, who indeed set the policy last 2 years. I just dont understand how in 3 different countries with different symptoms they apply the same catastrophic recession recipe and they get out proudly to talk about stability and development. To all of Ireland, Portugal and Ireland the recipe has the following results
Recession Raise of Unemployment Public cuts Absence of makret liquidity Social anger
while: The Debt is raising higher since its reduced in lower rates than the GDP. The math type is Debt = expenditure - state income. Greece in the next few days will elect a new government, I hope we will follow the example of Hungary and Turkey
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