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15 years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons


Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
11 Oct 2020 #361
I don't get it, one of the most glorious moments in history of Poland was her time as a Union partner with Lithuania and becoming a republic (as much as one could in the past)

Now Poland is in a Union with almost whole of Europe! While having strong ties with U.S.A

There is really nothing profitable for Poland to leave the EU
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
11 Oct 2020 #362
Yes, but there have always been guys in Polish history who prefered to go with Russia against Western Europe, despite anything. Like Iron today. They are the ones who contributed to partitions and Russian domination of Poland since 1795 to 1989.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
11 Oct 2020 #363
@pawian
There is just a simple Wish to be 100% independant and be the decision maker. That policy would push us only in to Russian arms and conflict, cause they aren't able to tolerate independant countries in the long run
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
11 Oct 2020 #364
There is just a simple Wish to be 100% independant and be the decision maker.

To be so one needs to be a superpower. Poland isn`t and our place is in a group of allies. In 18th century during partitions and later on during Risings Poland was alone without allies. Now we are anchored among allies but still some traitors don`t like it and want Poland to leave the EU. The next step is NATO etc. And the last one is The Polish Republic of Russia.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
11 Oct 2020 #365
Excactly
which is why Poland needs to build her up economically as much as possible.

First move should be to reduce taxes as low as possible or reduce tax pressure/control on small businesses and make it really easy to create a workplace of your own. Which then will create more profit making workplaces instead of tax dependent ones. It would also be a big incentive for great minds and productive ones to immigrate to Poland.

This plan was done right before the partitions of Poland and lead to the partitions itself, mainly pushed by Prussia as it was concerned that many Germans migrated to Poland for a better life (later they emigrated to the U.S)

Now that Poland is firmly within the EU and NATO
Poland has the chance to enact these reforms without fear of invasion. It has to be done tactfully of course, like "Economical response to the pandemic: "30% reduced income tax for developers of cellphone applications and digital devices to improve the workload in a safer environment" or something
Ironside 50 | 10,940
11 Oct 2020 #366
No,

What do you mean - no! You say no but your whole post say - yes. You are stupid enough to keep Poland in the EU. That is a fact.

Ah, you saying you are no stupid bevosue keeping Poland in the EU is an actually a good idea.
Well, where is your arguments your pros and cons where is your main point to support your stance? Not in your post where you rambling some nonsense and insults like a proper tool that you are. Confirming my diagnosing of your case - a fool.

Ah you mentioned Russia. Is that suppose to be an argument?
Geez, you IQ is really low, are you saying that if Poland will leave EU Russia will jump in and take over? hmm ...why not batman?

the most glorious moments in history

Its debatable as well as all history. However we are not talking bout history but abut reality and politics. Where -union is not always good, where republic is not always good and where details are what matters most.

Now Poland is in a Union with almost whole of Europe!

Norway is not. Is willing to pay a lot to align with so called single market but sill wouldn't join the EU. It must have some good reasons for that eh?

Is not about any whish it about interests. Is not in Poland's interest to remain in the EU, especially in the EU without Britain where everything is slowly changing for worse from the point of view of Poland's intertest.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
11 Oct 2020 #367
Ah you mentioned Russia. Is that suppose to be an argument?

Yes, Mr Kremlin troll, comrade Ironside. It is a crucial argument. If you pretend you don`t comprehend it, it means they still pay you generously enough. hahaha

However we are not talking bout history but abut reality and politics.

Mr Kremlin troll, historia magistra vitae. Today`s reality and politics have been heavily influenced by history. If you pretend to ignore it, it means your rates from the Kremlin troll factory are still decent enough to make your living.

Norway is not.

No, it isn`t. Also, it isn`t the Gateway to Europe like Poland. Have you ever heard of Norway conflicted with Russia? No. Draw your own conclusions. Unless your rates are high enough to allow you to close an eye to that problem.

Thank you, Comrade Ironside. Spasibo, Towariszcz Aironsaid.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
11 Oct 2020 #368
Yes,

Yes what? Russia not batman? why not? You don't make much sense anyway.
Except for your mantra you repeat ad nauseum - Poland out of the EU Russia will came and take over.
My foot it will.
Listen dimwit, Poland is in NATO right, that is a military alliance that suppose to help Poland if there is an invasion. Not the EU. Let it sink in for a while. What is that you don't get?

Russian economy or culture is not a match for Poland,
So, i don't get your scaremongering nonsense. It is not a valid argument it is BS. Stop it.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
11 Oct 2020 #369
Norway isn't in the EU for two reasons: resources and wish to remain independent.

Fish&oil and sovereignty, in all practicality EU dictates laws which Norway has to take in, and can only choose away 40% of laws in the EU. So Norway is basically in the EU, but without a voicing vote
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
11 Oct 2020 #370
It must have some good reasons for that eh?

One of the biggest is oil!

"... Since the discovery of North Sea oil in Norwegian waters during the late 1960s, exports of oil and gas have become very important elements of the economy of Norway."

Till Poland could brag about a similar discovery and becoming practically super rich overnight I would avoid compare Poland's economical challenges to Norway's...

And yet, even Norway does his part:

"... Although Oslo does not pay directly into the EU budget, it does contribute to a compulsory instrument known as the EEA Financial Mechanism. ... Norway currently pays €391 million per year, plus some extra for access to various other EU instruments, according to a new paper from the People's Vote campaign."

The "Norway-model" was actually talked about during the Brexit campaign, as a possibility for GB...there have been made some important points:

irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/brexit-explained-what-is-the-norway-model-and-is-it-an-option-for-the-uk-1.3712387
Ironside 50 | 10,940
11 Oct 2020 #371
wish to remain independent.

Why would they want to stay independent? they pay a lot as it is and they don't have much say in the EU affairs' and on the top of it they must take on board 60% of EU laws. Is that any merit in that stance? Are they doing it just for the hell of it or for some reason?

Till Poland could brag about a similar discovery and becoming practically super rich overnight

BB I have thought that Poland already became rich overnight after being included in the EU. Didn't you said that few times already? Hey, are you saying now that Poland is not rich and need to stay in the EU to became/be rich? I don't get it! Are you saying that membership in the EU enriches Poland or that Poland enrich the EU.

Just choose one and stick to it BB. Don't be confusing your old pal, my friend.

Poland's economical challenges

Poland's economical and political challenges are created by the way the EU and countries seen as top dogs of the EU are F with Poland. Do I need to name few?

Do I need to clarify what to F with means?
I gather that you are rather smart and witty fellow BB and i don't need to do it. But if you ask me to....
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
11 Oct 2020 #372
There have been voting over it three times, all times the result was a big:No

As long as top functions are not elected by the voters but by representatives themselves and a threat of losing control to drilling and fishing rights. It's impossible for Norway to join without politicians committing political suicide.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
11 Oct 2020 #373
Didn't you said that few times already?

Nope...I never said that...not even East Germany got rich overnight, not even after the "Anschluß" to super rich West Germany!

I gather that you are rather smart and witty fellow BB

Love you too, Iron! :)
Michel88
11 Oct 2020 #374
What they didnt achieved with tanks, they are achieving through economy. EU is the Fourth Reich.
Michel88
11 Oct 2020 #376
It's mostly Germany who rules the EU economically. They're also opposed to national policies.
Tacitus 2 | 1,237
11 Oct 2020 #377
It would be great if Germany had even a fraction of the power some people attribute to her.
jon357 66 | 17,078
11 Oct 2020 #378
It's mostly Germany who rules the EU economically

They can't do much (or anything) without the agreement of other member states.

They're also opposed to national policies.

It's fortunately not up to Germany.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
11 Oct 2020 #379
EU is the Fourth Reich.

Only one vote, like every other member....what a Reich!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_European_Union
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
11 Oct 2020 #380
Listen dimwit, Poland is in NATO right,

No, you listen, imbecile. hahaha Today we are in NATO, tomorrow your rightard buddies, bought by the Kremlin, can decide we aren`t. Understand, comrade?

Russian economy or culture is not a match for Poland,

Of course, Polish rightards in fact despise Russia amd Russians for alleged barbarism and lack of high culture. You only value the rule of the iron fist which has prevailed in Russia since prehistory - first carried out by tsars, then by communists, now by Putin. You would love to be raped from behind by a tough guy like Putin, that`s what you dream about.

Hey, dear Russians, are there any here? Remember, Polish rightards despise you like Polish Americans despise blacks! They look on you as inferior savages. Don`t even think of any alliances with them coz they will betray you as soon as they get a chance.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
11 Oct 2020 #381
Today we are in NATO, tomorrow

Is THAT suppose to be an argument? would be could be should be ? None can predict or control the future. We can only do what seems reasonable for the present.

I don't need to say anything, you do it to yourself - fool. What kind of argument its that?
The fact remains , it is NATO not EU that secures Poland as per a military pact.
To claim otherwise is nothing but a folly.
You can't even justify it nor explain relationally. So many words in your post and all of it - nonsense.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
11 Oct 2020 #382
fool. folly. nonsense.

Yes, Mr Kremlin troll, we know these are your favourite arguments when talking about Poland leaving Europe structures. Do they pay you for each seperate one or in bulk??? hahahaha
Michel88
12 Oct 2020 #383
Wasn't it Frau Merkel (or Merdel - French speakers will know) that invited all those "educated" middle easterners? All of them with Dr or PhD degrees. /s :)

If they really needed new workforce they could've done what Orbán did in Hungary and encourage births of locals instead. But no, let's import them brown illiterate guys.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,632
12 Oct 2020 #384
Wasn't it Frau Merkel

If she would be really the "Führer" of the new "Reich" as you implied Poland would have taken in as many of them as Germany wanted and said "Danke Schön"!

Somewhere your argumentation is faulty....maybe mixed with some regret?

Are you really a Pole? I'm always abit dumbfounded about posters on a polish board with the Hitler number 88 in their nick...
jon357 66 | 17,078
12 Oct 2020 #385
If she would be really the "Führer" of the new "Reich"

Like her or dislike her, one thing she certainly isn't is any sort of dictator.

As conservative politicians go, she's one of the better ones. And certainly a friend of Poland.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
12 Oct 2020 #386
Yes, those hateful critics are too stupid to realise that anybody who replaces her in the office won`t be as gentle with Poland as she is.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
12 Oct 2020 #387
as gentle with Poland as she is.

Grow a pair!!, Poland can stand on its own two feet, Poland has no issues with Germany, only a slight spat over taking in its migrants which is all sorted now, oh and a outstanding pipeline issue.

Germany is cool Poland is cool, but it would be wrong for either country to try and force their political / moral agendas on one another ,

look at what happened last time we had a spat.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
13 Oct 2020 #389
If she would be really the "Führer"

Well, she is a gentle fuhrer without an army who bullies the other countries with economic advantage. That's better? :-P

BTW. What do you think about this:

"Countries such as Poland and Hungary must be starved financially," said German politician Katarina Barley

polandin.com/50150185/ep-vp-comments-on-poland-hungary-were-shameful-pm-aide
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
13 Oct 2020 #390
Well, as long as there aren't any idiots wanting to invade Germany (thinking about Sweden during religious wars and France with Napoleon) there is no reason for Germans to be anything else then productive and economical.

It's like choosing between a bakery or a cannon factory, no sane neighbor would want Germany to produce cannons when it can make: bread, sausages, beer and sauerkraut

And as long as Germany doesn't force anyone to copy her management strategies, nobody is going to complain really


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