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Poland's Future in the EU under PIS


Atch 15 | 2,438    
5 Sep 2018  #1
A recent incident reinforces yet again the present Polish government's total lack of understanding of what it means to be a member of the European Union and as always a complete lack of solidarity with other members- ironic for obvious reasons.

On 20 July there was a Brexit related meeting of EU and European foreign affairs ministers at which Polish foreign minister SzymaƄski, who was the first to speak, told the meeting that the EU may have to choose between Ireland and no-deal.

According to sources present at the meeting his words were initially greeted with a stunned silence.

The effect was to stiffen the resolve of other member states in supporting Ireland, so that ministers from countries like Lithuania - who had not intended to intervene - decided to do so.

"The Polish minister started to make his comments, and then all the others said no, we're all behind Ireland, particularly the French and German ministers.

"In the end it reinforced the message that Ireland could count on our solidarity and I think also for the Polish themselves, they probably felt they could have expressed themselves a little differently."

On 29 August the French foreign minister Le Drian stated at a meeting of French ambassadors:

"our vision of the Union as a basic circle of alliances and values does not fit with governments that do not respect fundamental principles and do not feel bound in any way by community solidarity"

He added that "such countries have a utilitarian approach to the Union and choose only what is in their interest, particularly when it comes to transfer of money. We are not ready to continue paying for this Europe, this must be said clearly".

I think we all know that PIS main interest in the EU is for financial purposes so if they are re-elected for a further term of office it's my belief that they will work hard at turning the electorate against the EU and moving the country towards Polexit. I'm not sure though that it will actually happen. Obviously it would have catastrophic consequences for Poland so in a strange way PIS could shoot themselves in the foot as it would spell the end for them in politics for some time to come, if they try to engineer it and can't pull it off.
mafketis 16 | 5,896    
5 Sep 2018  #2
"our vision of the Union as a basic circle of alliances and values does not fit

Has he told Merkel and Macron?

they will work hard at turning the electorate against the EU and moving the country towards Polexit

They're already doing that. Not so successfully but the EU is being very helpful with its belligerant attitude on a whole host of issues.

The EU invokes solidarity when it helps the German-French axis and invokes other things (like austerity and sticking it to southern Eruope) when that helps the German-French axis.

As I keep saying read up on Toynbee's "universal state", the EU is following that failed model to a T.

I'm not anti-EU by any means but the leadership is old and reactive and have no real meaningful connection to the lives of ordinary citizens whose interests they consistently work against.

I agree PiS svcks and are against the EU because it represents a threat to their own dream of reestablishing PRL style patronage but there are serious structural flaws in the EU that the elite are resisting.
Ironside 47 | 9,017    
5 Sep 2018  #3
main interest in the EU ...... if they are re-elected for a further term of office it's my belief that they will work hard at turning the electorate .....the country towards Polexit.

Who is feeding you that rubbish? Is that conspiracy theory made up by some dunces? Those some that would be rightfully hanged for treason if the circumstances were different and it wasn't Poland but some other country.

I'm talking form the perspective someone who would whish they were doing it. Luckily young people in Poland are anti-EU.

his words were initially greeted with a stunned silence.

yeah, cause that are dicks following a party line like in a good old Soviets times. The central comity hasn't decided anything yet, so the other can have resemblance of debate but need to keep it in prescribed form.

By the way there is not Ireland issue if the EU won't impose a hard border in case of no deal.

Obviously it would have catastrophic consequences for Poland

boo ho!
Dougpol1 24 | 1,891    
5 Sep 2018  #4
Luckily young people in Poland are anti-EU.

Young un-educated Poles who have never left Rawa Mazowiecki and are stuck in some PRL timewarp? Sounds to me that is exactly how people such as you like it. Others carrying the burden, while you don't have to lift a finger for your country.

Tut-tut
mafketis 16 | 5,896    
5 Sep 2018  #5
here is not Ireland issue if the EU won't impose a hard border in case of no deal.

Yes, this seems very much like a problem imposed by the EU itself so the crocodile tears it sheds don't move me much....
Crow 141 | 7,007    
5 Sep 2018  #6
Poland`s future isn`t in EU.
cms neuf - | 380    
5 Sep 2018  #7
Its not an issue imposed by the EU. Its ab obligation of the 1998 peace treaty that he EU and the UK and Ireland uphold the agreed border arrangements- so the EU is fulfilling that role while the UK wants to walk away
mafketis 16 | 5,896    
5 Sep 2018  #8
the 1998 peace treaty that he EU and the UK and Ireland uphold the agreed border arrangement

What particular role does the EU play? Does it send troops? Bureaucrats? What specifically does the EU do on a practical day to day basis?
OP Atch 15 | 2,438    
5 Sep 2018  #9
Northern Ireland gets special funding from the EU under something called the Peace Programme.

europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/102/northern-ireland-peace-programme

It really has done a lot to improve community relations within NI and to improve cross-border relations. The EU has pledged to continue this funding post-Brexit.
mafketis 16 | 5,896    
5 Sep 2018  #10
Northern Ireland gets special funding from the EU under something called the Peace Programme.

Aha! they get bribes from the EU to not kill each other? Or are the bribes aimed more at one side?

The EU has pledged to continue this funding post-Brexit.

Cool.... what's the problem? th eUK doesn't want it?
OP Atch 15 | 2,438    
5 Sep 2018  #11
Well it's better than getting money from American simpletons to buy guns :))
mafketis 16 | 5,896    
5 Sep 2018  #12
You wound me! ....... And iffen I had my gun you might sing a right different tune...
Lyzko 17 | 4,796    
5 Sep 2018  #13
Poland seems to be drifting further and further away from the gravitational pull of Europeandom.
I pray she finds the wisdom to withstand the anti-Constitutionality of Messrs. Duda and Kaczynski to return to the European fold!
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,382    
5 Sep 2018  #14
Well it's better than getting money from American simpletons to buy guns :))

The difference between this American simpleton and his gun is that a migrant with a knife in my house will be very quickly a dead migrant with a knife in my house. In your house, it will be you who is dead. Unless, of course, the Eurotard police responds to you call for help in 2 seconds or less.
G (undercover)    
5 Sep 2018  #15
EU may have to choose between Ireland and no-deal.

So what's the whole thing is about ?
axelm - | 14    
5 Sep 2018  #16
OP is an imbecile
Fine, then throw us out of EU. We will ban all EU companies in revenge.
Multinational companies transfer more money from Poland than we receive in donations from EU. So EU is not doing any favor to us in this regard.

And we will not accept any refugee. They should go back where they came from. They should fight for their country there. We will not allow for social benefits for refugees. We will not allow mosques and islamic terror and crimes.

Poland will remain Polish. This is what our ancestors wanted. We are proud country and we will not accept neoliberal ****. If you don't accept it, we will opt out of EU and tighten chinese, american and Wisegrad relations.
Rich Mazur 5 | 1,382    
5 Sep 2018  #17
We will not allow mosques and islamic terror and crimes.

Islamic terror and crimes? No, it can't be. The followers of the religion of peace and brotherly love would never be terrorists. No way. It must be your imagination. Those were the ultra-right-wing white supremacists who drove trucks into crowds to stir up xenophobic hatred.
TheOther 5 | 3,381    
5 Sep 2018  #18
We will ban all EU companies in revenge.

No, you will not. You would kill Poland's economy on the spot.
axelm - | 14    
6 Sep 2018  #19
@Rich Mazur
Ha ha, good irony ! :) I think it is time to start to call far-left people as racist to patriots. To fight them with their own guns.
OP Atch 15 | 2,438    
6 Sep 2018  #20
The difference between this American simpleton and his gun

I refer to the American simpletons who funded the IRA in Northern Ireland. In fairness many of them were Irish-American simpletons.

OP is an imbecile

"No - you are! That thing you said"........watch Saxondale. The squiggles indicate that I'm quoting btw. Quoting means that the lines come from some other source - in this case, a television series called Saxondale - but have been selected by the author as suitable for making a point within the present text. (We'll deal with capital letters and their uses, of which you display woeful ignorance, another time. Krok po kroku, prawda?).Now, did Diddums get the gist of all that? Easy peasy, lemon squeezy, even for you :) Oh and while I'm at it, what would you like for your thirteenth birthday?
cms neuf - | 380    
6 Sep 2018  #21
Social benefits for tax paying Poles would be a good start ! At the moment they hardly exist - and its not the fault of immigrants
mafketis 16 | 5,896    
6 Sep 2018  #22
I refer to the American simpletons who funded the IRA in Northern Ireland

Which is weird because American news coverage was always completely farked. It was all IRA all the time as if they were the only violent group.

Imagine my shock in the early 90s in Poland where there were constant stories about protestant on catholic violence...

Isn't a big problem at present the fact that Teresa May has cast in her lot with some fringey protestant group (needed for a coalition... or did that ever happen?)
cms neuf - | 380    
6 Sep 2018  #23
That's precisely it Maf - at the bery moment when pragmatism is needed she could only form a govt by getting the 10 votes from the Northern ireland protestants.

The catholic party Sinn Fein also has about 7 seats but they dont use their vote in parliament because I don't recognise themselves as part of Britain. If they did then they could probably bring down the government this time.

I can't see either Brexit or the Irish border problem being solved without another election.
OP Atch 15 | 2,438    
6 Sep 2018  #24
Imagine my shock in the early 90s in Poland where there were constant stories about protestant on catholic violence...

The Protestant paras had a huge weapons stash accumulated over many decades from about 1914 onwards. Not as modern as the IRA of course but it did the trick :( Incidentally they also received a helping hand from the British government, shocking isn't it? Of course one can understand how the Provisional IRA were motivated to do what they did as abuses of Catholic human and civil rights had been going on since partition in the 1920s.

the fact that Teresa May has cast in her lot with some fringey protestant group (needed for a coalition... or did that ever happen?)

Yes, that's right. She needed the support of the Democratic (hilarious misnomer that) Unionist Party in order to form a government. They're actually not unlike PIS in that they're always as awkward as possible and put the blocks on anything remotely useful. They insist on Northern Ireland being treated exactly the same as the rest of the UK, despite it's separate physical location, so they won't allow any special arrangements for NI after Brexit (except the EU peace funding of course!). So on the one hand you have the Irish government who quite rightly insist on no hard border on our island and on the other you have the Unionists who insist on no 'border' between the North and the UK. Hard to see how it can ever be solved. They'll have to scrap Brexit I'm afraid :))
delphiandomine 86 | 16,369    
6 Sep 2018  #25
Teresa May has cast in her lot with some fringey protestant group (needed for a coalition... or did that ever happen?)

Yup, they don't have a formal coalition, but a slightly more detailed version of a confidence and supply agreement. The interesting thing is that they've both agreed to stick to the Good Friday Agreement, which pretty much rules out a hard Irish border as it was agreed at a time when the EU had abolished internal customs borders, and the thought of Customs controls returning to the Irish border was unthinkable.

The Conservative-DUP agreement is why Northern Ireland will now be in the ridiculous position of being the only place on "those islands" where abortion will be illegal. The Tories wanted to change it, but there's a school of thought that suggests that only the Northern Irish assembly has the power to do so. Any attempt by the Tories to change it would probably result in the DUP tearing up the agreement, and they need those 10 votes to get legislation through.

Essentially, this is why there's no real answer to the Irish border question. If customs barriers go up on the NI side, they'll be attacked and destroyed. The UK can do as they did during The Troubles and simply not bother to control goods, but that's hardly viable in the era of goods freely moving around once they're in the EU. Dublin will also bring a case against UK for breaking the Good Friday Agreement if customs barriers go up, and this could cause things to get worse again, especially in places like South Armagh where they're always ready for a fight.

The most sensible solution would be for NI to remain within the EU Customs Union, but the DUP want close integration with the rest of the UK and won't support a Customs line down the middle of the Irish Sea. If they propose such a thing, the DUP will break the Agreement and May's government will probably fall as a result.
Miloslaw 6 | 387    
6 Sep 2018  #26
I think if there is a deal,which I doubt,it will please nobody.
axelm - | 14    
7 Sep 2018  #27
@TheOther
Don't worry, we will not, EU is not the end of the world, bilateral agreement with any country can be made.
cms neuf - | 380    
7 Sep 2018  #28
No - that is total nonsense

there would be no bilateral deal with Germany, France, czech, italy etc. That is what the UK have just found out.

Any bilateral deals with other countries outside the EU are obviously going to be worse than the ones that the EU got to go see it - Polsnd would only have the negotiating power of one mid-sized quite poor country.

Were you alive in 2003? Do you really remember what any of the trade deals were like before EU membership? Remember higher prices for inferior products, huge queues at the border and lomg waits to get your stuff into the country?
axelm - | 14    
7 Sep 2018  #29
We Polish people will not allow EU to outstrip us from our dignity and heritage.
We are not like some hayseed german french or swedish people who swallow liberal utopia ideas of multiculturalism and cultural enrichness pumped by far-left junk media.

We are proud country. We do not get EU donations for nothing, it is our price that our polish market is open to foreign companies which transfer our polish money out of our country which was literally destroyed during WW2 and cold war by commies.

If EU does not listen to us, we prefer to be out of it. Borders first, everything else later. We will not give up.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,369    
7 Sep 2018  #30
The post above is hilariously full of transference errors from Russian, not Polish.




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