Tusk turning his back to idea about Intermarium (New Commonwealth), seeing only EU as future for Poland

See, that is why myself don`t trust to Duda.

Did you ever heard him on TV, radio, internet or any public media how he calling Serbians in Intermarium? No, you didn`t and he knows that Intermarium isn`t possible without Serbians. Not only Intremarium, even Visegrad can`t be sustained without Serbs. No, its not about importance of Serbs as Serbs. Its just strategic reality. So, when (if) you hear that some Polish leader calling Serbians, you would know its for real, it is that, morning of awakening of Dragon or to say simple- time for Poland to brake her chains. But, time now works against us. We shall see

Why not, Romania, Bulgaria, Croatia, Slovenia Bosnia and Montenegro would all fit right in. Serbia is not at all strategic to anything Poland wants to do and the idea that it is, is just kind of silly.

mafe, I think that we here, at least needs to talk honestly and openly. Here we aren`t on BBC or CNN and we don`t determine world`s questions. We are free here. So, shall we? From my side, you will get valuable info, in any case

Firstly. Define to yourself Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro. Its all about Serbs and `Serbian question`. Those countries are Serbian lands that aren`t Serbian right now for all sorts of reasons but all reasons are due to foreign madding. Competition between religions. Weakening of Serbs and by that Slavic South in general. Etc, etc. Still, there are people (no matter are they Catholic, Orthodox, Muslims or atheists) that wants to be Serbs. Anyway, imagine Poland entering in there (to gain something), ignoring Serbian question. It would be aggression, that won`t have support even from majority of Poles. Not to mention that would such aggression antagonize Poland with Serbians, Czechs, Slovaks, Belorussians and Russians. Do Poland need that? No. Do Slavic world need that? Of course not and that could be final thing that could actually destroy Slavs.

Secondly. Czechs and Slovaks won`t even stay in Visegrad if official Poland continue to provoke Serbia. Even Hungary don`t need Visegrad with antagonized Serbia. Slovenia (small Catholic country of 2 mil. proud Slavs but generally weak and ready to resist to non-Slavs only if Serbs supported them)? No, Slovenia won`t go with Poland if it consider going against Serbia. No, not that they love Serbs passionately but they understand strategy. They knows that `Serbian question` must be resolved and they themselves have problems with Croatia. Slovenian only hope to gain something is to wait for resolution of `Serbian question`. See, Poland can`t offer that to Slovenia, what Serbia can. Plus, Poland can only bring troubles to Slovenia. With Serbs, Slovenians are in equilibrium with Germany and Russia. With Poland, Slovenia actually, don`t exist, if you understand me.

Third. Croatia is German factor. What would official Poland expect here? To side with Croatia against Serbia and to prove its loyalty to Germany? Forget Intermarium in this case. On the long run, forget ....

Fourth. Bulgaria? Ha, that would be some combination. All treachery what Poland can expect from Croatia, also can get from Bulgaria. Just, Croatia is Catholic and Bulgaria is Orthodox. Tell me what betrayal you prefer. Plus, holding Bulgaria by Poland would secure Russian invasion of Poland, while holding Croatia securing another division of Poland. Think about it.


Serbia is everything to Poland. Only way out of misery, in strategic, in nay sense. And vice versa, Poland is hope to Serbians. With one slight difference, not only hope. But still, we wait Poland. We prefer Poland. What would Poland, its up to Poles.

I will tell you how it works. Poland giving political Capitol to Intermarium and Serbia giving financial center. Rest is formality. Mark my words.

Because majorities in those countries do not wish to be ruled from Beograd. It's a basic question of self-determination. When Serbia wanted to expand its (purposefully limited) role in Jugoslavija it tore the country apart.


Serbia is nothing to Poland. Poland, unlike Serbia, is not a miserable isolated country with delusions of grandeur.

Merged:

Warsaw Pact 2.0

I've read on this forum and elsewhere about the idea of new type of Warsaw Pact, this time based on traditional family values and not communism. Would the Poles be interested in joining or is there still too much animosity toward Russia. Are there any conservative/right-wing Polish parties that are friendly toward Russia? I read a book called Neo Eurasianism by Alexander Dugin recently. It's a fascinating idea of a way to for a large part of the world bond join to resist western decadence. I don't recall Poland being mentioned specifically however.

The problem isn't Polish attitudes toward Russia.

Russia doesn't do partnerships. Russia only ever has one relationship with other countries in alliances - master and servant.

A close relationship with Russia would only be possible if Poles agreed to turn Poland into a Russian vassal state again (like the PRL). I don't think that's in the cards.

That's understandable, but would the Poles rather be dominated by the EU/NATO and have their country flooded with immigrants? I'm not Polish, but it seems like becoming a junior partner of Russia would be preferable. I would rather have Germany reconquered and occupied by Russia than the current situation here. The Poles at least have the prospect if the Three Seas Initiative I suppose.

Lawdy Miss Clawdy! Russia doesn't have 'partners' junior or otherwise. I'm beginning to suspect that you're a graduate of the Kremlin Trolling Academy.

It's great how often I'm accused on this forum of having some hidden agenda or secret ulterior motives. I was a scammer from India last time and now I'm a Russian spy.

And you have not?

Right, that's my opinion. I didn't write it on behalf of anyone else.
Or maybe Putin hired me to infiltrate Polishforums?

Well he has an agenda alright but it's not that well hidden :)


Now if you'd read Soviet history in any detail you'd realise how accurate that statement could be. Would you believe that back in the 1980s the Irish authorities uncovered a KGB spy ring in Stillorgan Shopping Centre in Dublin! The trolling thing definitely goes on though, surely you are aware of that.

All I can do is assure you I'm not trolling and these are my own views.
It's interesting you mentioned the Soviet spy rings. One of the points I have been emphasizing is that modern Russia is not the Soviet Union and is not communist. It may be hard to accept that and move forward due to the atrocities committed by the Soviet Union. I would also hope the Poles haven't forgotten how Roosevelt hung them out to dry and used them as a bargaining chip with the Soviet Union.

The Russian Federation is recognized as the successor state of the CCCP.


It's not like modern Russia is much better, a belligerent kleptocracy that invades its neighbors to distract the feckless majority of vatniki

youtube.com/watch?v=cHfBIO-alTI

@ Atch

Russia is not the USSR. Russia has managed to shake off the chains of Communism. Putin is returning it to the top of the world where it belongs. We are now slowly moving towards a multi-polar world order.

youtube.com/watch?v=lIoEwESh320

There is no economy besides resource extraction and things like drug addiction and HIV levels are off the charts, this is primitive Russian thinking at its most barbaric - our economy is crap, our people are dying.... no krym nash!

Russia was never at the top of the world so it can hardly be returned there. It may have had an empire but it's always been a mess to a greater or lesser extent.


Exactly. A bunch of thieves and criminals, that's the Russian administration for you and Putin is nothing more than a Mafia Don.

His approval ratings at 89% among Russians not without a good reason.

@mafketis
Are you referring to the US-backed violent overthrow of the Ukraine's democratically elected president?

Oh for God's sake Crnog. Firstly who conducts those polls? Secondly Russian people (whom I have no issue with, they're a mixed bag like everyone else) don't know their arse from their elbow in terms of how a civilised country should function. They're still very much attracted to the idea of ' a strong leader' rather than proper social and economic policy.

There have always been a lot of so-called 'intellectuals' in the so-called 'rotten West' who are easily lured by what Russia is saying to them and then eagerly promoting Russia's cause. They have always been very naive and because of that comrade Lenin coined the term 'useful idiots' to describe their naivety, but also their usefulness for Russia. In the times before comrade Lenin the term could have well been applied to Voltaire and his admiration for Catherine II, for example.

russian gdp per cap doesnt seem to be over 10k dollars now. i guess putins losing his magic

The kind of pro-russian comments you see in Western media these days is alarming. The Russians have sold themselves as the underdog, provoked and humiliated by the USA, whereas they are


and


(the gangsters that steal the people's wealth, not the ordinary folk)

The fact that you make such a statement shows that you are not Polish and you know nothing about Poles or Polish history.


It's the same reason why Kim Jong Il has a similar approval rating in North Korea.


I see we can add Ukraine and Ukrainians to the list of countries and people you know nothing about.

Okay, that's straight from the Putin party line. Here's what Russians never understand "democratically elected" does not mean 'immune to protest' or 'cannot be run out of office for any reason'. He faced increasing protests and refused to reconsider a point that was hugely important to the national aspirations of the country and eventually fled like the thieving coward he was/is.

The most important year in Ukrainian history was 2004. That was when they learned that if they unite and show resolve then they can affect change. Russians have never learned that and are simply content to be ruled from afar by a strongman who they cannot influence at all.

Ukraine is starting to undergo a kind of civilizational change from oligarchal kleptocracy to civil society. It's a long difficult transition and they are bound to stumble a lot but it's a wonderful thnig to keep happening and if you're against that then you're against the basis of western civilization and in favor of despotism and stay out of Poland.

Atch & Maf, I am sorry to say but both of you are very narrow minded. It is time to switch on your brain and switch off your TV sets. You seem to have been spoon fed anti-Russian propaganda by reliable news sources such as BBC and CNN. Have either of you ever even visited Russia?

So if the Americans had risen up against Obama after the news of his draconian NSA spying broke, or when he tried to suppress dissent in the media by ostracizing anyone not towing his line ("covered journalists"), would that also constitute a legitmate reason to overthrow him?

Victoria Nuland was caught on tape orchestrating the coup in the Ukraine with the American ambassador. John McCain and co. were there personally overseeing it.

Don't be silly. All you have to do is look at Putin's beady little eyes to get a glimpse of his character, an unwholesome creature without a doubt. And not everybody relies on television to form their opinions. Some of us read and quite widely, not just bits and pieces on websites. As for visiting Russia, that's no use at all, one would have to live there to really know the country and that I'm not prepared to do.

Yeah, why not? Not enough people felt strongly enough about it for that to happen but being elected is not/should not be a guarantee of serving out the entire term against the wishes of those that put him there.