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Throwing away the constitution in Poland?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
7 Dec 2015 #211
with a mother on the edge of insanity

You must have been raised amongst extreme type of individuals. Sounds like you're giving women only one of two options: caeer woman or nearly insane stay-at-home mum.
OP mafketis 23 | 8,404
7 Dec 2015 #212
Sounds like you're giving women only one of two options

Hey, that's one more option than you want to give them....
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
7 Dec 2015 #213
that's one more optio

Absolutely not. Women should have access to various options: full-time career woman, part-time career woman (some might prefer a part-time job to devote more time to the kids), full-time homemaker, work-at-home (via itnernet) plus homemaker, nun, etc. And all options be equally honourable and worthy of resepct. It's the feminists who try to ideologise things by looking down on stay-at-home mums ("kura domowa") and playing up careerism.
OP mafketis 23 | 8,404
7 Dec 2015 #214
Women should have access to various options: full-time career woman, part-time career woman

In my experience most Polish women want one of those two. The full time homemaker option just doesn't ... appeal much here. Admittedly my sample is biased (I can't think of any stay at home housewives by choice I've known in Poland).
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
7 Dec 2015 #215
Merged: What's really happening in Poland behind all the high-sounding rhetoric

All the blather about protecting the constitution againt the threat of a totalitarian dictatorship is yet another clever smoke-screen designed to conceal the machinations of a power-holding group that has managed to preserve their privileges since the ostensible collapse of communist rule in 1989. Behind the scenes, this well connected powerful mafia-like group, managed to get hold of all the key resources of the country and to transform the justice system and media into an effective tool protecting their own hold on power.

This power-holding group consist of two divisions: Operators and Propagandists. The first devises an action plan, while the second implements it and manipulates the public opinion. The first group controls everybody, the second controls primarily the media. The key opposition leaders who are intimately familiar with this holding mafia (like Ziobro, Kaczyński and Macierewicz), have been portrayed by the propaganda group as the greatest enemies of the public. While the Civic Platform was about to prosecute them, it decided not to, out of fear that too much confidential information about their modus operendi would be exposed. Similar plans were pursued with respect to the CBA (Anti-Corruption Bureau) chief Mariusz Kaminski, but President Andrzej Duda through his swift pardon frustrated their plans.

currenteventspoland.com/analysis/What-is-really-happening-in-Poland-today.html

protecting the constitution

Grzegorz Snitchyna, er, um I mean Schetyna has met MEPs to warn them of the alleged horrible threat to Poland's democracy posed by the country's democratically elected government. The ambitious poitician with visions of becoming the next PM has a lot to lose if PiS win the next election so everything must be done to terrorise the international pbulic wtih concocted political horror stories.

Another well-known snitch is Tomasz Lis who stands to lose his cushy public TV post which pays him a greatly inflated monthly salary at the Polish taxpayer's expense, as if his Newsweek editorship didn't provide more than enough cash for any person. Recently he complained to Germany's ARD TV that journalists are persecuted in today's Poland. The sad thing is that many Westerners have little knowledge of Polish affairs and readily believe such nonsense.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
7 Dec 2015 #216
currenteventspoland.com/analysis/What-is-really-happening-in-Poland-today.html

Bwahahaha, did anyone actually read this? The amount of nonsense there is quite spectacular.

Polonius, you must admit, as a work of fiction, it's fantastic :D
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
7 Dec 2015 #217
a work of fiction

That's what they want you to think. And guess what -- they've actually succeeded!
jon357 63 | 15,214
7 Dec 2015 #218
as a work of fictio

Works of fiction generally have some merit. That is just a tissue of lies designed to smear respected individuals.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
7 Dec 2015 #219
It's nothing unusual - it's from a website controlled by PiS after all. They tend to produce the same kind of rubbish as you can find on the average far-left teenage idiot website.
Borsukrates
8 Dec 2015 #220
Andrzej Duda to president Bronisław Komorowski on the 2015 presidential debate: "It's very bad when president violates Constitution."

Jarosław Sellin: "They tried to create an institution which will hamper PiS in reforming the country."

Stanisław Piotrowicz: TL (Constitutional) Court may be a wrench in the cogs of PiS's reforms.

------------

So let's see, how might Constitution or Constitutional Court hamper PiS in reforming the country ?

* When Lech Kaczyński was a president of Warsaw, he denied permission for Equality March, twice. He cited traffic law. TK ruled Kaczyński's decisions violated Constitution.

* In 2014, TK ruled against mass wiretapping, saying the rules are so imprecise they break civil rights. Also, there's no external institution which would control the special services.

* 11 years ago TK ruled against ABW, saying some laws related to them break civil rights. At the time, the right-winged politicians rejoiced, because the ruling hit SLD. PiS, having 18 people in Sejm at the time, applauded.

* TK allowed temporarily arrested people to contact defense lawyers without presence of prosecutor. If prosecutor thinks the contact needs to be controlled, he has argument it.

* Then TK allowed temporarily arrested to contact defense lawyers via phone.
* TK cancelled a law which let temporary arrests to be extended by over 2 years.
* TK removed the law allowing to temporarily arrest based on the premise "Other important obstacles, which were impossible to remove".
* In criminal code (Kodeks Karny), TK removed another law which allowed arresting without specifying what's the point of keeping the man imprisoned. This made the famed "extractive arrest" (areszt wydobywczy), where someone was arrested in hopes that something interesting would come up, harder to perform.

* TK is credited for removal of seclusion rooms from polish prisons.
* The jury can no longer legally deny the accused a public attorney.
* Minister of Justice can no longer demand the case file from a judge.
* Prosecutor can no longer hide certain data citing the crown witness law.
* IPN (Institute of National Memory) used to be able to deny files to interested parties without giving any reason. TK removed laws which made that legal.

* In 2005, three groups of right-winged politicians complained about the EU accession treaty. TK ruled the treaty is, in fact, compatible with Constitution. If it wasn't for TK, Poland probably wouldn't be in EU now.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
8 Dec 2015 #221
TK ruled

All that be as it may, one should never forget that the TK was the creation of a dictatiorial communist regime. It was set up as propaganda window dressing to create the pretence of impartiality. Its chief to this day (Andrzej Rzepliński) is a former PZPR member. At present the TK is stacked with PO appointees. All those things should be taken into account when discussing that controversial body.
jon357 63 | 15,214
8 Dec 2015 #222
Andrzej Duda to president Bronisław Komorowski on the 2015 presidential debate: "It's very bad when president violates Constitution."

Basically they like the idea of the rule of law when it supports their particular activities and despise it when it doesn't.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Dec 2015 #223
They like the law, but only if they make the law and judge the law.

Fortunately, the protests are growing in number.
Harry
8 Dec 2015 #224
Basically they like the idea of the rule of law when it supports their particular activities and despise it when it doesn't.

PIS are big supporters of 'one man one vote'; however in their version The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski is the man and he has the vote.
Ironside 49 | 10,311
8 Dec 2015 #225
Fortunately, the protests are growing in number.

In your head!
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Dec 2015 #226
What started off as a single protest in Warsaw has now become four protests this weekend, with three of them at exactly the same time.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
8 Dec 2015 #227
four protests

Even 44 protests won't make a damn bit of difference. The frustrated albeit impotent Platformers can rant, rave and fume to their heart's content whilst PiS just thumb their nose at them and laugh out loud!!!
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Dec 2015 #228
Even 44 protests won't make a damn bit of difference.

Like most of the PiS supporters, the fear is evident.

The frustrated albeit impotent Platformers can rant, rave and fume to their heart's content whilst PiS just thumb their nose at them and laugh out loud!!!

Platformers?

Polonius, here's a clue : this is not about PO. This is about the people, and they're mad.
smurf 39 | 1,981
8 Dec 2015 #229
The frustrated albeit impotent Platformers can rant, rave and fume to their heart's content whilst PiS just thumb their nose at them and laugh out loud!!!

If you know anything about the political landscape here you'd know that PiS are pretty much Pi$sing their pants already.
They're be a climb down soon coz they know they're losing the floating voters they tricked into voting for them.
They've pretty mcuh already ruing any chance of being re-elected already, after a few weeks in power.

give it a year, maybe 18months, some typical PiS scandal will hit, a snap election will be called and PiS will return to the shadows where they love to lurk and carry out their corrupt ways.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Dec 2015 #230
If you know anything about the political landscape here you'd know that PiS are pretty much Pi$sing their pants already.

They're absolutely terrified. It's obvious that they're trying to pretend as if these protests aren't happening, but if (as expected) - the nationalists turn up on Saturday and start trouble outside the TK, then numbers are only going to swell further. The PiS media is full of constant slurs and smears towards the opposition, and they're doing a fantastic job of getting the middle classes against them.

give it a year, maybe 18months, some typical PiS scandal will hit, a snap election will be called and PiS will return to the shadows where they love to lurk and carry out their corrupt ways.

Either that, or Duda will break under the strain of realising that prison awaits.
Harry
8 Dec 2015 #231
but if (as expected) - the nationalists turn up on Saturday and start trouble outside the TK

I was just about to ask whether the nationalist scum would be stupid enough to do that, then I realised that they most certainly will be stupid enough to do that.

they're doing a fantastic job of getting the middle classes against them.

Hard to imagine anybody doing a better job really.

Interesting to note that the EC are already talking about the process of suspending Poland's EU rights, isn't it.

Duda will break under the strain of realising that prison awaits.

You heard any talk that there's already been an motion made to have him thrown out of the bar association?
Ironside 49 | 10,311
8 Dec 2015 #232
Interesting to note that the EC are already talking about the process of suspending Poland's EU rights, isn't it

Traitors run to them crying they have lost an election - help big brother prison sentences awaits for us for being your loyal lackeys.
F the EU! Europa commission full of scum.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Dec 2015 #233
I was just about to ask whether the nationalist scum would be stupid enough to do that, then I realised that they most certainly will be stupid enough to do that.

They certainly are, which is excellent news. The sight of pro-government thugs on the streets is exactly what we want right now.

You heard any talk that there's already been an motion made to have him thrown out of the bar association?

There's already a petition for him to be fired from UJ, and the legal profession in general seems to be very upset with him.
Ironside 49 | 10,311
8 Dec 2015 #234
The sight of pro-government thugs

Said a foreign thug aiming to protest against legitimate government.

There's already a petition for him to be fired from UJ, and the legal profession in general seems to be very upset with him.

Establishment's last stand - good their are digging their own grave.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Dec 2015 #235
Said a foreign thug aiming to protest against legitimate government.

I love the fact that there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Establishment's last stand - good their are digging their own grave.

Just wait, Ironside. We're not going to lose this ;)
Ironside 49 | 10,311
8 Dec 2015 #236
Just wait, Ironside. We're not going to lose this ;)

If PiS is gone then it will be our turn and this time it won't be ballot and bill but more direct means.

I love the fact that there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Question is do I want to do anything about it? now.:)
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Dec 2015 #237
If PiS is gone then it will be our turn and this time it won't be ballot and bill but more direct means.

You don't even live in Poland, so your threats are laughable.

Question is do I want to do anything about it? now.:)

Obviously not, given that you're happy to live outside Poland. Seems to me as if you're the worst sort of patriot - you shout online about everything, but you don't do a damned thing.
Ironside 49 | 10,311
8 Dec 2015 #238
You don't even live in Poland

Allegedly.

so your threats are laughable.

Alleged threats. Although nobody is a lone island.

Obviously not,

You got it! ? Go mingle and demonstrate, as a prefect prove who is in fact an enemy of this country.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 Dec 2015 #239
You got it! ? Go mingle and demonstrate, as a prefect prove who is in fact an enemy of this country.

The only enemy is you, given that you've repeatedly expressed the desire to murder people for their views.
OP mafketis 23 | 8,404
8 Dec 2015 #240
foreign thug aiming to protest against legitimate government.

There's nothing wrong with protesting a "legtimiate government" if people disagree with their policies.

a prefect prove who is in fact an enemy of this country.

From my point of view, the ones actively working to subvert the rule of law are the enemies.


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