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Poland's post-election political scene


Harry
26 Apr 2017 #2,731
That's all they've got - the past to dwell on

Ironic really, given how so many of them have sizable parts of their pasts that they want everybody to pretend never happened, such as their collaboration with or participation with the commie regime the last time that the First Secretary of the Party was the most powerful man in the country.

I will look for efforts to fire up the base somehow

That would be utterly idiotic, even that their base will support them no matter what (obviously I'm excluding from that direct instructions from Radio Maybach to vote for a party other than PIS). But then utter idiocy is the hallmark of the PiSlamic State, so....
Ironside 50 | 10,939
26 Apr 2017 #2,732
hurting them is the school reform

Nonsense - only few people with vested interest in the previous system have some issues - most people are just fine with it. Not to mention that a great many wise people in education have been saying for years that that system need to be changed.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
26 Apr 2017 #2,733
The question is whether Kaczyński has the guts to deal with Macierewicz or not. The scandal that's surrounding him is growing by the day, and PO have a massive card to play here - the issue of the helicopters isn't going to go away. But if they get rid of him, he will start a civil war within PiS. If they don't get rid of him, it's almost certain that PO will torment them over it, especially as it involved compromising Polish needs for the sake of VIP transport that wasn't needed.

A side issue that is probably hurting them is the school reform - not wanted by much of anyone, and by almost no one actually involved in education

It's doing a huge amount of damage among some parents. They've mobilised part of the electorate that previously wasn't bothered, and that same part of the electorate will vote for the party most likely to punish PiS because they're so upset. Throwing over 900,000 signatures to the trash was also a terrible move, especially as PO are now gleefully pointing out that Szydło promised to give people a voice.

The school programme itself is also absolutely terrible, with plenty of missing things. Even evolution has been de-emphasised, which is insane.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Apr 2017 #2,734
"very quick end"

That would be a catastrophe because from a period of diffciult choices taking place during a true legislative marathon cleaning up after the disastrous 8-year PO reign, Poland would fall into nothingness. Not only were there 8 years of a warm tap-water theoretical state, based mainly on PiS-bashing, but PO still has absolutely no programme other than attacking the government over everything it says, does and proposes. Before dreaming of a comeback they should first of all create some semblance of a programme addressing the real needs of the entire nation -- something they have never done. To paraphrase Lincoln -- if you try to fool all the people all the time you end up with a landslide defeat like that of October 2015!
jon357 66 | 17,068
26 Apr 2017 #2,735
whether Kaczyński has the guts to deal with Macierewicz or not. The scandal that's surroundin

The big question is entirely about how the loose cannon would retaliate. Two psychologically disturbed individuals with a poor concept of personal boundaries and a lot of 'information' about each other.

It could get interesting, but above all, it could very easily bring down the current unstable PiS junta...

Mlody Macierewicz
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
26 Apr 2017 #2,736
It could get interesting, but above all, it could very easily bring down the current unstable PiS junta...

Easily so. It's not a surprise that Polly is denying the latest poll, but the reality is that Kaczyński has to decide whether this government can survive Macierewicz. If he's already doing endless amounts of damage, what more damage can he do in the next 18 months before local elections?

The real fear here must be that if Macierewicz is dismissed, will he attempt to mount another coup and seize power for himself?

Incidentally, have you seen how his "escape" from internment was revealed to have been a hoax? The reality seems to have been that he simply walked out of the place where he was.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
26 Apr 2017 #2,737
Another minute, another scandal. This time concerning the Education Minister, Zalewska.

facebook.com/sieradz/photos/a.377261940894.164464.53182045894/10154534774580895

For those that can't read Polish, the Minister decided to park her official car in a space reserved for disabled people. She was visiting an "integration school" at the time, which is home to children with...disabilities.

Shameful and arrogant. It's the hallmark of PiS.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
26 Apr 2017 #2,738
the Minister decided to park her official car in a space reserved for disabled people.

Sorry nowt to do with the minister but all to do with security services and driver training for those resposible for chauffeuring vip's

Security is the primary objective here, it wasn;t too long ago that a mp 's car was surrounded by a raging koderite mob and was unable to safely maneuver away from a very hostile situation.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
26 Apr 2017 #2,739
Even evolution has been de-emphasised, which is insane.

Pope JP II said there was no conflict between the bible and the theory of evolution.... (I hope they're not going US bible crazy)
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
26 Apr 2017 #2,740
Sorry nowt to do with the minister but all to do with security services and driver training for those resposible for chauffeuring vip's

You don't see anything wrong with the minister parking her official car in a space reserved for disabled people outside a school that is home to disabled children?

If they were so concerned about security, they would have closed the car park.

Pope JP II said there was no conflict between the bible and the theory of evolution.... (I hope they're not going US bible crazy)

It looks like they're headed the way of the US in this respect. There's quite a lot of commentary on how the Polish church is completely out of sync with the rest of Europe, and how they're embracing a very fundamentalist form of Catholicism that is (surprise) driving people away from it.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
26 Apr 2017 #2,741
"You don't see anything wrong with the minister parking her official car in a space reserved for disabled people "

Its not her decision its the defensive driver training that is in place to minimize potential risk to the vip.

This happens in the uk so it should not be a new concept to you.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
26 Apr 2017 #2,742
Its not her decision its the defensive driver training that is in place to minimize potential risk to the vip.

Nothing about minimising risk, it's just the old PiS arrogance that they are more important than the public. It's the same reason they've been crashing cars constantly and behaving like they are members of the Politburo in 1980's Moscow. I don't remember British government ministers parking their cars in disabled spaces, do you?

If there was a risk, that car park would have been closed by the local police in advance of her visit. The reality is that Zalewska is one of the most arrogant and incompetent ministers out there, and she clearly didn't want to walk far in the rain.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
26 Apr 2017 #2,743
Here is an example for you

mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/george-osborne-parked-another-disabled-1814506

Nothing special to Poland just you have a liberal beef with one particular political party, just wait a few years and vote if you ar eligable, mean time no need to nit pick. (smiley face) chill dude.
jon357 66 | 17,068
26 Apr 2017 #2,744
Glad to see the back of that creep too, now he's resigned.
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,049
26 Apr 2017 #2,745
Dat delphiandomine guy speaks zero Polish yet he decides about Polish politics competency ahahah
Lyzko 29 | 7,281
26 Apr 2017 #2,746
You seem to have an opinion about everything else, why shouldn't Delph have a chance as well? He's usually interesting and literate, present company excludedLOL
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
26 Apr 2017 #2,747
Throwing over 900,000

The PO govt did exactly the same thing with petition they disliked. Hold the back page for Delph's latest news flash!
BTW Prof. Flis, a well-known poltical scientist, says Poland has simply proved it has a normal poltical stage. Political fatigue is a very normal feature of democratic politics which usually occurs well into the term. It often has a reinvigorating effect on those in power. PM Szydło today dressed down her cabinet ministers who were going off on private forays and stressed the govt was a team, not a collection of loose cannons.
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,049
26 Apr 2017 #2,748
@Lyzko
"You seem to have an opinion about everything else, why shouldn't Delph have a chance as well?"

Because 99% of stuff here is about Poland and Poles. I do understand Polish and Poles. I am one. Dat delphiandomine guy or you yourself can't even understand obrady Sejmu when it's on TV yet dat delphiandomine guy brands politics he can't even understand incompetent.
Lyzko 29 | 7,281
26 Apr 2017 #2,749
It so happens that I understand as much in Polish news broadcasts as you do of CNN or BBC! I can't speak for Delph or others:-)

Perhaps not up to the quality of "Do Rzeczy" or "Rzeczpospolita", but I read the "Nowy Dziennik" on a weekly basis and have little difficulty grasping the main idea.
NoToForeigners 10 | 1,049
26 Apr 2017 #2,750
I understand EVERYTHING what is written in english newspapers. I can read English pretty well. I have recently read three of Stephen Hawking's books with no real struggle regardless of it being written in sophisticated and specific to physics language. You can't even ask about the dress' colour. I don't really care about your (lack of) Polish language skills. I know your Polish sucks big time because you have proven that numerous times here on pf and in private messages with me.

Anyway. Read through Delphiandomine's posts and see for yourself how often that guy tells us about what Poland needs, what Poles need, what Poles want and think. He knows all of that when he can't even understand an average Stanisław in everyday chit-chat....
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
26 Apr 2017 #2,751
You should actually watch TVP Lzyko, the propaganda on Wiadomości is so terrible that it's very easy to understand. They've intentionally dumbed down the language,

If you want to practice, compare TVP1's Wiadomości to something like this - youtube.com/watch?v=DGALppOlKnQ - the similarities are hilarious, even down to the very intentional slow pace of speech. The destruction of TVP is quite a story in itself, as they're now losing considerable amounts of money.
Lyzko 29 | 7,281
26 Apr 2017 #2,752
Thanks, Delph!

POLSAT'S good and on YouTube I will occasionally try to watch and listen to parliamentary debates. My enemy is simply time:-)

@NoToForeigners,

One of our greatest English authors, Joseph Conrad, became a master stylist in the English language, yet by all accounts spoke English with such a thick Polish accent, he sometimes dumbfounded listeners! Moral here is that whereas I make grammatical errors in my writing, you'll probably never know how good my speaking is!
jon357 66 | 17,068
26 Apr 2017 #2,753
TVP1's Wiadomości

That 'news' programme is actually so much of a comedy now that even people who were once sympathetic to the PiS junta laugh at how crass the propaganda is.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Apr 2017 #2,754
out of sync with the rest of Europe

No argument there considering that Catholic is all but dead in Western Europe. Poland still has a virbant, living faith that peremates the nation's traditions and modern lifestyles as well. Baptism First Holy Communion, catechism classes and Confirmation are still the norm, not the exception. Processions, pilgrimages and going to confession are still a normal part of life. Let's hope Polish Catholicism remains "out of sync" with the museum-variety religiosity of France, Britain, Belgium and other such hedonised, godless climes!

BTW, do you know who the biggest advocates of so-called "open Catholicism" were and are? The PZPR, Mazowiecki, Michnik, Palikot, Śróda, Senyszyn and others (and of course Delph, although he's in a much lower league!) who only have the "wellbeing" and "future" of Catholicism at heart!? (LOL)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Apr 2017 #2,755
'news' programme

Have you forgotten what Tusk-era Wiadomości was and today's TVN is like? At least TVP have all sides represented on talking-heads shows, whilst TVN have PiS-bashing sessions where no-one for the government or PiS side is present. And at the end of the evening Wiadomości, someone from the "total" opposition is regularly featured to comment on every controversial issue.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Apr 2017 #2,756
Joseph Conrad

He also anglicised many Polish concepts and phrases which back then (when few Brits knew Polish or any other langaueg for that matter!) were regarded as colourful linguistic innovations. "A man in the force of years" (człowiek w sile wieku) is one that comes to mind.

One of my Slavic Studies profs in the US had personally known Conrad's sister and learnt that he spoke with a thick Polish accent down to the end.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
27 Apr 2017 #2,757
is all that the 's and as well and are still the , not the .

(yes, I'm actively mocking the new quote limit)

What? Years of enforced religion classes have alienated many young people from the faith (and there is a small but growing group of evangelicals, god help Poland). It's still nowhere near as bad as western europe but that's definitely the direction (and trying to promote religion won't work).

Putting religion in schools was the biggest mistake the church made after 1989, if you want to kill young people's enthusiasm for something make it part of the established order and make them take classes in it.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
27 Apr 2017 #2,758
make it part of the established order

I must agree. Under commie rule, the Oaza movement (Catholic youth clubs and summer camps not approved by the regime) attracted a good following as the kids felt a tingle of excitement being under SB surveillance and felt they were bucking the system. After years of suppression, harassment and persecution, 1989 generated a Church backlash meant to make up for lost time which may have been overdone as regards catechism at school.
johnny reb 28 | 5,324
27 Apr 2017 #2,759
God help Poland is right if Evangelism starts grabbing hold there.
It happened in the area I live in here in the U.S. and it was nobodies fault except the Catholic churches.
Lenka and I both were raised Catholic until we were old enough to think for ourselves.
She chose to become an atheist and I chose a basic Bible believing church.
When I started attending that church there were 60 members and today there is well over 600 members, most who were formally Catholics.
Faith is not about traditions, it is about your personal relationship with Jesus is what I now believe.
The youth of Poland are breaking the strangle hold the church has on them like Lenka did which in another generation is going to play a huge role on Poland's political scene.

What would happen if they had mass and nobody came and quit pumping money into mixing church with State ?

if you want to kill young people's enthusiasm for something make it part of the established order and make them take classes in it.

You just nailed it and that is EXACTLY what is happening in Poland today.
Sorry father, I have lost interest in your church as it personally offers me nothing while trying to control my life in everything.
No offense.
peterweg 37 | 2,321
27 Apr 2017 #2,760
"A man in the force of years" (człowiek w sile wieku) is one that comes to mind.

Doesn't exist in Google. I've never heard before.

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