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Poland's post-election political scene


delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 May 2016 #1,891
The banking law is clearly defective if it lacks a clause prohibitng passing on tax expenses to customers.

Bear in mind that this is PKO BP we're talking about, as in the biggest bank in Poland and under State control.

Banks should be closely monitored and one that does that should have its licence revoked.

I'm surprised you're suggesting revoking the licence of the biggest Polish-owned bank.
Jamaika
11 May 2016 #1,892
Very interesting articles.
A tragic government policy of PO / PSL.
The amazing statement the minister Waszczykowski and the Catholic Church about support to refugees from Ukraine and Turkey.


polskatimes.pl/pieniadze/a/we-wroclawiu-co-miesiac-przybywa-5000-ukraincow,9974880/2/
tvn24bis.pl/z-kraju,74/raport-ok-4-mln-polakow-rozwaza-emigracje-za-praca-na-zachod,642593.html
dziennikwschodni.pl/lublin/w-lublin ie-przybywa-studentow-z-zagranicy-w-ciagu-roku-tysiac-osob-wiecej,n,1000000901.html
Dougpol1 32 | 3,245
11 May 2016 #1,893
PKO

Well remembered by those of us who either visited or lived in Poland in the 80s. I always did my business with Bank Handlowy w Warszawie anyway.

PKO should be avoided like the plague now that there is free choice. It's really as simple as that.

PS: PKO has built itself a prestigious centre on the waterfront in Gdynia, bang opposite Dar Pormorza. The MOST expensive land anywhere in Poland bar opposite the Warsaw Marriot one could suggest. When I last checked, it wasn't necessary for bank staff to have a sea view to do their job, and to be situated next to another eponymous Marriot.

It's your money folks!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
11 May 2016 #1,894
biggest Polish-owned bank.

You've doubtless heard Morawiecki's presentation today on how treasury companies are to to become bastions of honesty, transparency and economic patriotism with none of the hanky-panky the previous government was known for. Today the audits are being revealed and they present a horrific picture of Platformer waste, mismanagement, featherbedding, scamminand idle inactivity.
cms 9 | 1,271
11 May 2016 #1,895
I think those of us who own shares in these state owned companies can see their performance since October, and those of us that hold bonds can see the ratings getting worse. The markets are not so easy to fool as a load of pensioners from Podlasie. Morawiecki will have his work cut out to reverse this falling confidence - especially since PiS has packed the boards of these companies with people who have zero business experience.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
11 May 2016 #1,896
Morawiecki's presentation

Poland's previous government wasted PLN 340 billion of taxpayers' money, Prime Minister Beata Szydło said on Wednesday in a report to parliament. She added: "The wasted" money could have gone to provide family benefits, 5,000 newly-built kindergartens, 250 new hospitals and 1,500 km of motorways. "The opportunities and possibilities that you denied Poles cannot be calculated... this money was just wasted".

Treasury Minister Dawid Jackiewicz accused the previous government of "seven deadly sins in the management of public assets: greed, mismanagement, extravagance, breaking procedures, using companies for political purposes, and action against the state's interests."

One after another the ministers presented the errors, failings and irrregularities of the PO-PSL regime. Rather than explain or apologise, PO leader Grzegorz Schetnya dimissed the scathing charges as "bad cabaret".
mafketis 24 | 9,361
11 May 2016 #1,897
a horrific picture of Platformer waste, mismanagement, featherbedding, scamminand idle inactivity.

So can we expect indictments? On particular charges? Or is this political kabuki meant to distract people from the lawless nature of PiS and rule by party leader rather than rule of law?
cms 9 | 1,271
11 May 2016 #1,898
We are waiting patiently for PiS to show us what they can do with the economy and so far it ain't great - zloty down, stock market down, ratings down, deficit up, tax receipts down, record levels of cash being withdrawn from poland. Maybe a good idea for Morawiecki to fix that rather than engaging in this unsubstantiated nonsense.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
11 May 2016 #1,899
can we expect indictments?

It looks that way. Some of the former scamster regime's misdeeds have already been reported to the prosecutor's office. The ball is now in their court.

zero business experience

No-one is born with experience, They acquire it through hands-on activities while on the job.
Harry
11 May 2016 #1,900
Yes, which is why most people start in lower ranking positions rather than being put straight in at board level.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
11 May 2016 #1,901
start in lower ranking position

Certain emergency situations require untypical or radical action. One such situation is the state of mismanagement, squandered public funds, failed or abandoned projects, greed ethic and general scmaster climate of the fortunately now defunct PO-PSL regime. Morawiecki said they left the economy and administration in such disarray that 20 years may not be enough to clean up the mess. And those are the PO gangsters and bandits you so eagerly supported all along, making convoluted excuses for ther scams and misdeeds. Shame on you!

This might be a great nad apt anthem for KOD (to be sung tothe melody of "God bless America")

God bless the KODerasts, grouping divine.
Stand beside them and guide them, just as long as the profits are mine.
Here's to Petru and Schetyna and their SB guys in tow.
God bless the KODerasts, the status quo! (Repeat)
mafketis 24 | 9,361
11 May 2016 #1,902
Certain emergency situations require untypical or radical action

Any excuse to keep from following the law?

Morawiecki said they left the economy and administration in such disarray that 20 years may not be enough to clean up the mess

Then expect Poland's international market ratings to plummet like a tamale dinner in a toilet. Why would first world countries want to invest in an economy in ruins, ruins I tell you! Seriously, according to you and Morawiecki Poland is in worse shape than Greece and should be hitting a _major_ recession as soon as the international markets realize this.

I hope PiS supporters have got some fall back plans because PiS isn't going to have money to buy them off for much longer once the economic collapse hits....
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
11 May 2016 #1,903
is in worse shape than Greece

And we all know who left the eocnomy in such disarray. "Grab what you can and run" was the order of the day. The scamster regime were concerned only about feathering their own nest and to hell with the country.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
11 May 2016 #1,904
Seriously, according to you and Morawiecki Poland is in worse shape than Greece and should be hitting a _major_ recession as soon

Nonsense. There's an obvious different between public sector's mismanagement for the past 8 years and "Poland". Nice try on the side of "democrats", who clearly claim that any criticism of the mess they were doing is "dangerous for Polish economy" and at the same time keep screaming 24/7 to the foreign media and institutions about dictatorship, threat to democracy, growing fascism etc. Pathetic.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
11 May 2016 #1,905
There's an obvious different between public sector's mismanagement for the past 8 years

Any proof of that beyond what some politicians claimed?

Given the lack of anything written and any actual hard evidence obtained through an independent audit, it seems that PiS came up with this idea over the weekend once they realised just how strong the opposition is. They'll now try and blame the inevitable downgrade on PO.

It's all very predictable, and people aren't falling for it.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
12 May 2016 #1,906
over the weekend

Bollocks! They announced months ago that audits were being painstakignly prepared. That was way before the KOD creeps decided to make mega-fools of themselves with last Saturday's pathetic rerun of their boring, trademark "rant in the street" spectacle.
mafketis 24 | 9,361
12 May 2016 #1,907
They announced months ago that audits were being painstakignly prepared

Then the documentation and supporting evidence will soon be placed in the public domain? Yay!
kondzior 12 | 1,200
12 May 2016 #1,908
A nuclear bomb has been dropped in Poland yesterday as the gubmint presented an audit of the previous gubmint's 8 years of office.

Some choice picks:

- Poland resigned from taking part in UN peacekeeping missions, even though they are low-risk and their costs are refunded.
- When Madonna was to perform in Poland, the ministry of sport and tourism bought 400 (!) tickets to the same concert in Turkey (!!) to see first how it will look like in practice.

- A company whose only client was the state treasury was nevertheless granted 1 mln coins to design its logo.
- The gubmint was supposed to construct 4k km of roads and highways by the end of 2012, they ended up with 1.5k. The costs of road construction per 1km were ~25% higher than, for example, in Germany.

- 50 mln coins was spent on "modern machinery" to show it off during the last electoral campaign and claim that the gubmint was supporting modernisation. Turned out that no work station in Poland was fit to use the machinery, so it was put inside a warehouse where it is still rotting away unused to this day.

- The ministry of foreign affairs spent 22 mln coins on a building that it didn't need.
- Its chief policy in the last years was also to follow the EU mainstream as much as possible, regardless of the fact that much of it was not in Polish interest.

- The ministry of family and social politics was essentially an internal travel bureau. Same as the sport and tourism ministry.
- Secret services were actively spying on opposition manifestations and right-wing journalists, including eavesdropping on their phone calls, following them to meetings, collecting personal data of people from their environments, etc. 52 journos in total were placed under long-reaching surveillance.

- They were also spying on ex-chiefs of services, suspecting them of arranging their own bugs against government members.
- In 2011, two central anti-corruption bureau directors were taking part in an operation meant to capture the leader of an international crime group. Both of them were under the influence of alcohol, which resulted in one of them stepping in front of a random car and needing to be rushed to hospital with serious injuries. No repercussions followed, the bureau made sure to forge documents to make it look like he was there privately and not on duty.

- Right after the presidential plane crash in 2010, a russian citizen went to the polish embassy claiming to have information regarding it. The intelligence agency didn't even bother hearing him out, and instead handed him over immediately to the FSB.

- The National Culture Centre was promoting the book of one of the current opposition party leaders shortly before the last elections.
- 65% of Polish export is done by foreign-held companies. There was very little support of actual Polish business, everything was directed into foreign hands and markets, and what state-held companies couldn't be sold were liquidated. Only 50% of industry in the country is actually Polish.

- 50 bln coins was spent to cover the addition of new civil servants.
- The prime minister's chancellery ended every year with a rough budget deficit of 15 mln.
- The Polish public debt during the last government's office rose by 100%. The prime minister said the total losses Poland took because of the previous gubmint's horrible governing are roughly 340 bln coins.

- 500 mln coins of EU funds were not used.
smurf 39 | 1,981
12 May 2016 #1,909
Some choice picks:

These are all bad things, if proven to be true.
PO were not the way forward for Poland, indeed, they did a lot to keep it behind. Look at other countries that joined the EU when Poland did, many of them are in far better positions now.

However, while PO are not the answer to a better Poland, PiS are far, far worse. They're pretty much a cult in all but name.

And that's why people voted PO for so long, they were the lesser of two evils, in the latest election people were sick of PO and voted for these current clowns. Most regret their vote and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Be a mighty country if we could just get rid of all the politicians. Sack them all and start again.
Wulkan - | 3,250
12 May 2016 #1,910
...and then you will have another politicians and so on
Harry
12 May 2016 #1,911
if proven to be true.

And there's f*ck all chance that they will be (largely because they aren't).
Wulkan - | 3,250
12 May 2016 #1,912
A lot of people vote against rather than for. I voted for Kukiz'15 despite the fact I don't agree with many things day have but this vote was rather a vote AGAINST: PO scum, ZLEW sh1t or Razem communists.

Easy explanation video below. I fear some members might not watch it till the end without getting triggered :-)

youtube.com/watch?v=GjYLWadz5Yc
Dougpol1 32 | 3,245
12 May 2016 #1,913
You have fed us this "guru" before Wulkan. Don't let the Birmingham Workers Party boys see you supporting that rubbish. They'll have your guts for garters.

In the meantime, in the real world...... for the most part of the last 8 years, we never heard about what Tusk was up to, or what the president said.

Which is exactly as it should be.

They were too busy improving Poland. And improve they did. IMO. Who can do better? PIS are already fecking up big style, the markets are mightily displeased, and a vote for some pop star isn't going to put dinner on the table, is it?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 May 2016 #1,914
A nuclear bomb has been dropped in Poland yesterday as the gubmint presented an audit of the previous gubmint's 8 years of office.

Not really a nuclear bomb at all, because of two simple facts :

1) There was no evidence whatsoever presented, beyond the word of politicians
2) The "audit" was performed by the government without any credible independent oversight whatsoever

The latest poll results say it all : 38% support the anti-PiS coalition vs only 33% for PiS.

No nuclear bomb at all, but rather proof that PiS are yet again obsessing over political enemies while ignoring economic issues. It's all a smokescreen to cover up the fact that they have no hope in hell of funding their pre-election promises.

The nuclear bomb was today, as it's now been discovered that PiS pushed through a change in the law meaning that the State Forestry Service now have a veto over the sale of land zoned as forest. The same veto can be used to force someone selling their property to sell the forest to LP, at a price determined by the court.

Effectively, anyone with a garden that's partially zoned as forest is now at the mercy of Lasy Państwowe.

*that* is a nuclear bomb, as many sellers are now discovering that their properties are suddenly worth a lot less.

The costs of road construction per 1km were ~25% higher than, for example, in Germany.

I'll disprove this one, because it's what I'm most interested in. The claim was that the roads being built were the most expensive in Europe.

The actual truth was on the GDDKiA website - tvn24bis.pl/z-kraju,74/polskie-autostrady-nie-najdrozsze-w-europie,643114.html

The report performed by PwC for the GDDKiA reveals the truth :

What's more, the rate fluctuates around the EU average.

Such simple facts, and ones that make a mockery of your entire post.
Wulkan - | 3,250
12 May 2016 #1,915
You have fed us this "guru" before Wulkan.

Yes! and I will continue on that till you (and others) open your closed mind.

Which is exactly as it should be.They were too busy improving Poland

Phahahahahahahahaha breath... Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Even PO's politicians wouldn't dare to say anything like it at the moment. LOL
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 May 2016 #1,916
Now, instead of reposting crap mentioned in the Sejm by PiS, let's look at some real facts.

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-11/polish-stocks-count-50-billion-cost-one-year-after-duda-victory

Twelve months on from Andrzej Duda's surprise initial victory in Poland's presidential elections, stock investors are fleeing the country.

The numbers don't lie. $50 billion wiped off the WIG20 in one year says it all. This quarter, the WIG20 has lost 12% - which can directly be pinned on PiS.

There's also this quote by a equities manager :

"The reality is that the WIG20 is worth a lot less today than a year ago simply because of the Law & Justice party."

Says it all, says it all.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
13 May 2016 #1,917
38% support the anti-PiS coalition vs only 33% for PiS.

That is about as relevant as showing that 42% of Poles support little green men from Mars with tentacles on their heads. It has absolutely no bearing on the lawmaking process which takes place not on the streets but in the Sejm. So the rabble-rousers can rant, chant and fume till they're blue in the face and it still amounts to no more than last winter's snow.
Harry
13 May 2016 #1,918
the rabble-rousers can rant, chant and fume till they're blue in the face and it still amounts to no more than last winter's snow.

I seem to remember reading a piece by an American writer in Poland saying very similar things about Solidarnosci in the very early '80s. It turned out that he was completely wrong (although to be fair he was only writing what his paymasters in Moscow were ordering him to write).
Dougpol1 32 | 3,245
13 May 2016 #1,919
Says it all, says it all.

But Delph.... the PIS posters on here may not personally invest. So they think money grows on trees :)))))
jon357 66 | 16,977
13 May 2016 #1,920
The largest single demographic among the 18% who voted for them is the retired and semi-retired...

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