Poland's post-election political scene

martial law

So you want a return to the days of marital law. Not only are you talking about PiS getting their boot boys to attack peaceful demonstrations, but you're now also talking about abolishing the Constitution. Treasonous, Communist swine.


Which legislation was crippled? You seem to be making stuff up as you go along.


Constitutional Tribunals are found in plenty of countries. Germany, Serbia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Hercegovina, Slovenia, France just to name a few.

Do what you want, but we're not going to let a bunch of Putin-loving communists take over Poland.

Dr Freud, your patient is holding on line two....

They want a return to the glory days of when everyone was guaranteed a poorly-constructed flat, 2 weeks in some miserable osrodek and the right to be stamped on should you try and protest.

It's just amazing how easily some of them are willing to give up everything that people fought for, just because of imagined enemies.

not legislation,but legislation making process...yet again you crippled brain cells struggle to understand simple sentence


and we wont let english G.Glitters calling for violence in Poland.

You really seem to be struggling with how the Constitution and the TK works. I'm not surprised, given the average education of the PiS voter tends to be "some high school"

Try reading the opinion of the Venice Commission and perhaps you'll actually understand that PiS cannot cripple the Constitutional Tribunal just because they want to. It's an important part in the separation of powers.

Anyway, latest news is fun. PO will present a resolution in the European Parliament, which means that both the European Commission and European Parliament are now involved as well as the Council of Europe. PiS are pretty much isolated now - but hey, Putin's always a good friend. How long before Kaczyński meets Putin?

Like talking to a brick wall Delph. But PIS do suffer from a collective low Intelligence Quotient so they need the EU to spell it out for them.

This business really is splendid fun!!

The fun will be how they try to reframe the Smolensk narrative from evil Russians to an evil alliance of Tusk and Komorowski plotting against LK and trying to sabotage Polish Russian relations at the same time.

Not sure if AM will be on board for that one (though I can imagine JK going there in a heartbeat).

It's amazing how much they've managed to create a cult in which people are willing to give up democracy for a politicalparty.


I'm almost certain the work is just beginning. Look at that new "Smolensk" garbage (I won't call it a film, because that would be insulting the art) - barely anything is blaming Russia, but rather the viewer is led to believe that it was PO's fault.

Even Macierewicz is more obsessed with playing with toy soldiers than anything else.

Dougpol1
another Glitter.


bunch of EUnuch will be rightfully ignored.you Glitters,and your UB friends guys enjoy freezing ass in KOD demo.its all funny to watch on youtube.

It's funnier that you're so disconnected from Poland that you have to watch it on youtube :D

It's even funnier that you don't seem to realise exactly how...dependent many people are on EU cash. Farmers are already angry over the payment delays - if they take to the streets, this government is finished.

TK is totally wasteful and redundant, since Poland already has its Supreme Court. In the US the High court is all that is needed without amy need to create an additional feather-bedded bureaucratic moloch.

Notice how you and other PiS supporters said nothing about the Constitutional Tribunal until PiS decided to attack it straight after the election.

As for "wasteful", why aren't you criticising the fact that PiS have chosen to spend taxpayers money in bathing the Prime Minister's chancellery with light simply to stop the Constitution being projected onto it?

And why as a crusading nepotism-basher aren't you criticisng Mrs Rzeplińska who thanks to her hubby's pull landed herself a fat-cat consulative post in the CBA (ironically the brainchild fo PiS)?

and his daughter is some chairman of foundation that received 300k dollars grants.she was there with komoroskis daughter and closely linked to gazeta wybiorcza.fok...anything you look close at is mafia ike sh.it in this country.

and those idiots there "defend democracy"
fronda.pl/a/nasze-corki-nasi-ojcowie-rzeplinska-i-komorowska-w-jednej-fundacji,61764.html

Good job, you've just pointed out exactly how it is under PiS.

The sheer and total nepotism and corruption within PiS will set new records.

Under PO we not only had widesrpead nepotism and corruption but also spying on journalists, police attacks on demonstrators -- protesting miners, Solidarity, Independence Day marchers, footie fans, etc. That beam is so large that it's a wonder you can still see the PiS speck.

Just realised the Good Book is probably noto on yoru reading list so here is an except from St Mathew who was chastising hypocirtes:
Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but fail to notice the beam in your own eye?

yup...another day,another PO pig meeting with prosecutor..
Krzysztof Kilian...very good friend of Tusk and his personal adviser...paid himself and his friends almost 7 milions:

dzienniklodzki.pl/artykul/3766357,prokuratura-sprawdza-milionowe-odprawy-bylego-prezesa-pge-i-jego-wspolpracownikow,id,t.html

Frasyniuk, who suffered immensely during the 1980's - has spoken out against PiS. His treatment after the end of martial law is well documented, including being kept in truly dreadful conditions in prison. His treatment during the 80's contrasts sharply with Jarosław Kaczyński, who enjoyed the fruits of his privileged upbringing.


And perhaps the most damning point :

Frasyniuk is quite a shady persona - no one knows where his money early in the nineties came from

I don't grudge him. He suffered immensely in prison - there's a fantastic article about it here.

nytimes.com/1988/08/30/opinion/on-my-mind-the-prisons-of-poland.html

I don't recall Jarosław spending a day in prison. More to the point, no-one quite knows how he was able to enjoy such a privileged upbringing.

(see the madness of such accusations?)

as you probably know you can't buy Kaczyński - Frasyniuk got hold of enormous amounts of cash for a previous opposition activist in the early nineties which allowed him to start a big transport firm - how? where did he get money from?

he was very outspoken against lustracja - maybe there is a reason for this

Nice try, but it's all explained here.

wyborcza.pl/duzyformat/1,129727,12806909,Frasyniuk_na_niemieckich_blachach.html


Pretty clear from the interview that he simply had connections that were willing to help him financially. It wouldn't have hurt him in the slightest to have been known as one of the genuine heroes of Solidarity.


There are serious questions to be had about how he was able to enjoy a nomeklatura upbringing and even enter the path of becoming a public prosecutor. He isn't corrupt himself, but he certainly enjoyed an upbringing that wasn't obtainable by average Poles.


Maybe he simply understood that lustracja could only end in even more trouble for Polish society?

You mean more trouble for the red/pinko/foreign-itnerest-lobby IIIRP establishment and all the companies they set up by hook or by crook. Instead, they should have got an at least 10-year public office ban and the most senior of them should have been ordered by a court to pay financial reparations (garnished wages and pensions) to the Polsih nation whom they had oppressed and exploited for 45 years.

I know you're not a fan of rule of law, but how could this have been accomplished without retro-active legislation (which would have had disastrous consequences for Poland's legitimacy in terms of attracting investment)?

Coulda woulda shoulda are the last words of a fool (as the song says)

I know you're not a fan of justice, so it makes no difference to you that the oppresesors made out better on the transformation that the victims they oppressed. Maybe the Americans were wrong to oversee de-Nazification in post-war Germany. Communism left in its wake a vicitm body count many times greater than that of Naziism/Fascism/Francoism/TIsoism combined.

The purpose of the RT was _not_ so that Solidarity members (or former party members) could make a nice living for themselves. It was to change the system.

The sad fact is that more party members were able to think ahead while too many on the Solidarity side were still hung up on their ideas of a 1970s Scandinavian welfare state (not noticing that Scandinavians themselves had largely given up on it).

But I know lots of people with no PZPR connections who've done smashingly well post 1989 (and some former PZPR types who.... haven't). Correlation is not causation after all. The key to getting ahead post 1989 wasn't some shadowy cabal but flexibility and luck and knowhow in various combinations.


Germany had lost a war, that has nothing to do with a negotiated transfer of power.


True, but.... so? I've yet to meet a Pole who understands Marxist theory, let alone a committed communist.

I must agree with you here. Those PZPR members who had survived the post-war meanders (Bierut, Gomułka, Gierek, Jaruzelski) the 1968 anti-Semitic purge, the Solidarity revolution and the half-hearted kustration were defintiely survivors who knew how to scheme, which bandwagon to jump on, how to adapt and promote their own self-interest. I get the impression you feel the success they achieved through their adaptabiltiy, cunning and craftiness absolves them from any accountabiltiy for their PRL-era transgressions. In fact you seem to feel the RT clique is something to be perpetuated indefinitely to the detriment of the majority. I disagree. The successful have a moral duty to help the less fortunate. The fruits of transformation should be spread about more equitably, and people like Morawiecki seem bent on accomplishing that.


Too bad the PZPR was not officially proclaimed a criminal regime. The RT clique quashed such initiaitves. After the last Soviet troops had left, Poland was under no obligation to keep pledges given to political criminals with blood on their hands. Police negotiators will promsie kidnappers, terrrorists and other criminals everthing, but once hostages are free SWAT move in for the mop-up.

How much economic gain would you trade for that? It would have killed economic investment (why invest in a country where the next government might declare your actions illegal?) and killed Poland's political standing.

There was no RT "clique" there were people who were in better and worse starting positions at the end of the PRL and those who made better and worse use of their talents and the opportunities open to them. That you hate those who were successful doesn't make them a group conspiring for your failure.

And of course the part of Poland with more German influence did better than the part with more Russian influence just the same way that Germany will always economically outperform Russia.

German and German influenced values of hard work and adherence to rule of law will always beat looking for the good Tsar whether it's Putin or Kaczyński to feed you.

Indeed, your ilk only knows personal profit, greed and self-interest.There also exist such values (you surely call them meaningless abstractions) as justice, honour, dignity and self-esteem, but you can't eat, drink, wear, drive, smoke or copulate with those, so they are of no value, right?