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Poland's post-election political scene


delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
8 Mar 2016 #1,321
If so, the opposition is rather silly here because it would imply that PiS has simply made a change of people in government only and not a change in the practices of government.

Remember that the opposition is not only PO - in fact, they've been pretty much invisible over the last few months. I certainly wouldn't call PO the current political opposition regardless of the amount of seats in the Sejm.

It was the same story in 2006 - PO went missing while the SLD took up the main role of opposing PiS.

Anyway, a nice little article here.

And at the end of 2015, Poland's newly appointed Law and Justice Party leveled another challenge for proprietors of the bars, slashing their public funding by 25%.

saveur.com/fight-to-save-poland-milk-bars-warsaw
milky 13 | 1,657
8 Mar 2016 #1,322
the same should be said about the nature of things as they had been carried out before that change, that is at the time when the present opposition was in government.

That's why the international community will need to assist. Make sure both sides compromise and checks and balances are re-introduced.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
8 Mar 2016 #1,323
Notice how the usual PiS supporting suspects have nothing to say about the cruelty of PiS slashing milk bar funding by 25% even though they're used by the most vulnerable in society.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
8 Mar 2016 #1,324
used by the most vulnerable in society

For the sake of propagadna the smug, self-satisfied RT clique will even roll out such sob stories pretending they really care about the less fortunate. That's called hypocrisy. They really want to retain the establishmentarian status quo which has provided them with all the benefits and advantages.
Harry
8 Mar 2016 #1,325
the usual PiS supporting suspects have nothing to say about the cruelty of PiS slashing milk bar funding by 25%

What are you expecting, that they'll tell the truth, i.e. "We need those funds so we can get our snouts even further into the trough!"?

25 is an interesting choice as a number, given that it's the number of thousands per person per month that the idiots on the Smolensk conspiracy theory commission are extorting from the Polish taxpayer.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
9 Mar 2016 #1,326
international community will need to assis

Isn't the impositon of unwanted foreign meddling known as "fraternal asssitance" aka the Brezhnev doctrine?
cms 9 | 1,271
9 Mar 2016 #1,327
What do people think the end game for this govt will be ? I think it will come from the disgruntled mums waiting for their 500 zloty and from the farmers waiting for their support (though incidentally I have been paid on time :). I think it will be more difficult for the govt to face those people down than it is to ignore a few comedians and students.

What has amazed me about this govt is the speed with which they have wilfully alienated people who would otherwise cautiously support them. Settling old scores seems more important than helping Jan Q Pole to improve his living standard - its breathtaking the disregard they have for consequences, and the inability to think a few steps ahead.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
9 Mar 2016 #1,328
What do people think the end game for this govt will be ?

I've just read an article about this. expatriate.pl/1mln-ukrainians-to-gain-from-the-polish-500-law/ - I'm pretty sure there will be some major upset once it's discovered that the system is easy to beat and that the government is paying out money to non-EU foreigners. From a political point of view, many Poles will be furious once this is made clear.

Hard to tell with the end game. I could see Morawiecki challenging Kaczyński for the party leadership and the party being torn apart in the process, especially if it becomes clear that his plans aren't being respected.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
9 Mar 2016 #1,329
Settling old scores seems more important than helping Jan Q Pole to improve his living standard

Seems? There's no doubt now that they're all about revenge, more revenge and booty (the cash kind, not the buttock kind).

I am curious as to whether Duda and Szydło realized just how marginalized they'd be after the elections that they (and not the toxic demons kept out of public sight) won.

its breathtaking the disregard they have for consequences, and the inability to think a few steps ahead.

It's not like JK has kids and worries about their future (also see Merkel, another barren destroyer).
cms 9 | 1,271
9 Mar 2016 #1,330
I'm sure the answers will come couched in the language of the 1930's again - Banksters, Neo liberal scum, cosmopolitans, polonophobes etc

Was in the Jewish museum a few weeks ago in Warsaw and was struck by how many of the posters of the 1930's would not look too out of place in modern PiS discourse.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
9 Mar 2016 #1,331
was struck by how many of the posters of the 1930's would not look too out of place in modern PiS discourse.

Oh I'm sure some posters here would be all on board with this...

wróg

or this

łapy
Harry
9 Mar 2016 #1,332
I am curious as to whether Duda and Szydło realized just how marginalized they'd be after the elections that they.

I very much doubt they did. And that poor cat Duda is now facing a prison sentence and other career-ending effects when he leaves office!
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
9 Mar 2016 #1,333
I wonder if he can survive the EU and US making it very clear to him that they expect him to uphold the law and not the rule of the Party.

Seems? There's no doubt now that they're all about revenge, more revenge and booty (the cash kind, not the buttock kind).

I'm pretty certain that the priority is cash first for most of them and revenge second. There's no other explanation for the sheer amount of corruption and nepotism already on display.
cms 9 | 1,271
9 Mar 2016 #1,334
I think Morawiecki is too honest to make progress. I think a possible scenario is he resigns and nobody credible will work with PiS as a finance minister and they will be unable to withstand the issues from the 500+, public debt, probable withdrawal of EU funds and the weak zloty. Some sensible members of PiS will form a breakaway party
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
9 Mar 2016 #1,335
uphold the law

Uphold the law of the established post-roundtable clique and not of those challenging the RT gang's 26-year monopoly.
Harry
9 Mar 2016 #1,336
Uphold the law of the established post-roundtable clique

So how about they just uphold the constitution of Poland which has been specifically approved by the people of Poland? Why is it too much to ask the lovers of PIS to do that?
Ironside 50 | 10,939
9 Mar 2016 #1,337
What do people think the end game for this govt will be

Why do you even try topretend that you are kind a an impartial voice in this dispute? It is clear that you don't care for mums or farmers. Neither you are interested in debating pro and contra of their polices. You're only looking forward to the end of PiS government stomping impatiently your short fat legs.

I'm sure the answers will come couched in the language of the 1930's again

Excuse me? What has your heavily depended on a pop-cultural goo dig at PiS has to do with the actual political reality of the 30' or with the real PiS? Nothing at all! You are presenting nothing else but a witless drivel in a guise of refined argument. Why don't you fess up and state your real reasons for siding with scum? Unless I'm mistaken and there nothing more behind that progressive footie reasoning.

Oh I'm sure

Look at this a boy I back making comments on something he Hadley understand. Really 30', Jews and whatnot? Those are the real life issues for you in the presented day Poland?

Your post tell us more about you and your mindset than 1000 words would, at the same time it tell us nothing about Poland or PiS. What does it say about you? You must be really an anti-Semitic individual who is in denial as to his own prejudices and is projecting instead his problem onto other people.

I think that impromptu psychoanalysis describe you and your problem to the T!
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
9 Mar 2016 #1,338
What do people think the end game for this govt will be ?

4 more years.

speed with which they have wilfully alienated people

They didn't.
cms 9 | 1,271
10 Mar 2016 #1,339
Well I do care about farmers because I own a working farm. And I do care about mums because I am married to one and I employ about 15 more. And I am kind of impartial because in my house of 4 adults (us and her parents) then 2 voted PiS and one Kukiz. And honestly I don't really care that much about TVP, TK, Walesa etc - I just want to get on with my own life and look after my Polish kids.

I am perfectly happy to debate any of PiS policies here with you in a rational way. Name which one you would like my views on. However going by the tone of the responses then it looks like anyone who wants to debate is an intellectual and is next up against the wall.

I can't honestly see another 4 years Grzegorz because its difficult for them to govern if nobody will lend them money. In 100 days they have managed the following

- zloty at its lowest level for 10 years
- stock market steep fall (and steepest in state owned companies)
- a credit downgrade
- and I see in February record levels of capital flight from Poland (though its obviously mostly jews and progressive scum so it doesn't matter).

I don't know what the next 100 days will bring but with so much of the economy now in the hands of people with no experience and no foresight then I'm not very optimistic.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
10 Mar 2016 #1,340
PiS

All the KOD street commotion, the nocturnal anti-government camp-outs and the endless Michnik rants are all manifestation's of the frustrated RT establishment's mutual adoration society. But all their doggedness and decibels cannot change the fact that PiS enjoy more than twice the support of any opposition grouping.

The latest CBOS survey has shown:
PiS - 37%
PO - 18%
Petru - 17%
Kukiz'15 - 8%
gregy741 4 | 1,204
10 Mar 2016 #1,341
and I see in February record levels of capital flight from Poland (though its obviously mostly jews and progressive scum so it doesn't matter).

speculating trash can go fok off.
dont believe in all this scaring ppl .Hungary was suppose to collapse and bankrupt cus of "nazi dictator" in power,yet thay doing amazing well.

last time PIS was in power they had almost 7% growth
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 Mar 2016 #1,342
Hungary was suppose to collapse and bankrupt cus of "nazi dictator" in power,yet thay doing amazing well.

They're not doing "amazingly well" at all. Orban only survived because he was friends with Merkel in the EPP and understood not to threaten German interests. The country is still in a mess - teachers have gone on strike, schools are badly equipped, there's rampant corruption in healthcare and the country is still incredibly corrupt compared to Poland.

PiS - 37%
PO - 18%
Petru - 17%

So effectively neck and neck, and that's the CBOS polls that have consistently shown a far bigger lead for PiS than the others.

last time PIS was in power they had almost 7% growth

Last time PiS were in power, they didn't try and pursue a neo-Communist economic agenda.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
10 Mar 2016 #1,343
They're not doing "amazingly well" at all.

have a look:
ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/eu/countries/hungary_en.htm[/url]

Last time PiS were in power, they didn't try and pursue a neo-Communist economic agenda.

i tho its called social justice among your leftist circles
gregy741 4 | 1,204
10 Mar 2016 #1,345
you cant even analyse simple data..look at direction....its take time to clear after pro EU eunuchs
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 Mar 2016 #1,346
Try harder.

budapestbeacon.com/economics/hungarys-budget-deficit-balloons-47-5-percent-in-2015/30774

That huge deficit from 2011 onwards was under Orban. You seem to have problems understanding simple data yourself.

But remember, Orban was sensible enough to keep close to Germany. Poland hasn't been anywhere near as wise.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
10 Mar 2016 #1,347
latest CBOS survey has shown

not surprising...KOD and Nowoczesna(PO Bis) had shown its ugly face.more KOD demonstration and petru ,schetyna and their thugs wont get to parliament next time.

all aside...we been told that PO.Nowoczesna ect,are parties with massive majority of young and educated people electorate.
now they become opposition and got to the street and----- 95% of em are venom spitting pensioners.10 years and there will be no PO,nowoczesna and all this UB,SB comunist salon will be gone for good.Poland will finally breathe
gumishu 11 | 5,604
10 Mar 2016 #1,348
But remember, Orban was sensible enough to keep close to Germany.

you live in some parallel universe Delphi - if Orban is close to anybody it is rather Putin then Merkel
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
10 Mar 2016 #1,349
No, not quite. Orban was smart enough to not rock the boat with German interests - the retail tax there was quietly dropped, Fidesz were loyal towards the EPP in the European Parliament, etc etc. He's been playing a very Titoist strategy there with Germany and Russia.

Back on topic please
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
10 Mar 2016 #1,350
So effectively neck and neck

No. 37% gives far more seats than 18% + 17% and once 2 shyts are merged, it won't be 35%. That's because quite a few idiots still believe Petru is "something new".

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