The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 4,080

Poland's post-election political scene


OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
17 Feb 2016 #961
dud Duda

MODS ALERT: Ban jon357 for good, he's calling Poland's
president a bad name.*

*See jon, I can also do silly things like your snitching guru, except I'm doing it take the p*ss. With him snitchery is a natural inclination so he repeatedly makes a fool of himself.
jon357 66 | 17,040
17 Feb 2016 #962
In fact a very accurate description of his role so far, Po. Very accurate indeed...

A name? Nope. An apt description and breaks no forum rules.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
17 Feb 2016 #963
In fact a very accurate description of his role so far

For once we agree on something. You have indeed accurately described your snitching guru to a T (or is it tee?).
jon357 66 | 17,040
17 Feb 2016 #964
Don't be silly Po.

The parallel between PIS and the Soviet systems use of public office is very telling indeed. Elected leaders that aren't leaders of anything at all and a real leader who doesn't hold office except as a backbencher.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
18 Feb 2016 #965
Indeed. It was quite normal for Party leaders to hold an insignificant title in the government. For instance, if we look at the government of the Soviet Union - their version of the cabinet in the Westminister system was the Council of Ministers of the USSR. Only Stalin and Khrushchev were Chairmen of the Council of Ministers - no other First Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU held the title.

Likewise, in the PRL - the Council of State was the highest office in the land. Only Jaruzelski from 85-89 held the title of Chairman of the Council of State. Among Prime Ministers, only Bierut and Jaruzelski held the title.

It's pretty obvious to anyone with half a clue that Kaczyński knows fine well that while it will be very easy to prosecute Duda, Ziobro and others for their leading role, he can truthfully sit back and say that he knew nothing about it and that the Council of Ministers decided things on their own.

The only surreal thing for me is just how scared that cat Duda must be, knowing that the State Tribunal is waiting for him for his blatant abuse of office.

Basically she and the dud Duda are in the same position as people who held essentially meaningless (in this situation) titles like prime minister or president back in the Soviet Union.

Yep, come to think of it, I think East Germany was the only country where the leader of the Council of State was also the leader of the Party.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Feb 2016 #966
cat Duda

MODS ALERT: the poster is maligning and misreprensting a respected Polish statesman. Is that on-topic enough to reply to? (LOL!)
jon357 66 | 17,040
18 Feb 2016 #967
respected Polish statesma

Only one of those three words is accurate. He isn't respected and he certainly isn't any sort of statesman. And he hates Poland.
Harry
18 Feb 2016 #968
just how scared that cat Duda must be, knowing that the State Tribunal is waiting for him for his blatant abuse of office.

That cat Duda must indeed be very very worried, which is probably why he's being treated for clinical depression right now. But in a way prison may well be the best place for him: his colleagues at Krakow university law school have all signed a letter pointing out that he's a criminal (and are they going to want to work alongside a criminal) and there are apparently moves afoot to have him barred from practising law in Poland due to him being a criminal, so pretty much the only place he will be able to make use of his education in law will be prison.

a respected Polish statesman.

Respected Polish anythings do not break Polish law: that cat Duda is refusing to carry out a direct instruction of the Constitutional Tribunal, his actions are in breach of Polish law and the Polish constitution.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
18 Feb 2016 #969
his colleagues at

I don't know about your colleagues but those colleagues need to have their heads examined an their connections as well. Cannot allowed for the Polish Universities to turn into a poisoned well like it had happened not long past to the Ivy league.
jon357 66 | 17,040
18 Feb 2016 #970
there are apparently moves afoot to have him barred from practising law in Poland due to him being a criminal, so pretty much the only place he will be able to make use of his education in law will be prison.

This will cause him huge problems after his term of office ends.

he's being treated for clinical depression right now

Hardly surprising. A president in name only who isn't actually a president but just a placeman who stood because the party leader is electorally toxic.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
18 Feb 2016 #971
This will cause him huge problems after his term of office ends.

I think his collogues should start to worry about their own future if they are continue to back decaying system.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Feb 2016 #972
huge problems

The boringly repetitive PiS-bashing never ends!
jon357 66 | 17,040
18 Feb 2016 #973
decaying system

What is decaying (and they absolutely can't stand this) is the inward-looking, rooted in spurious tradition, and largely derided neo-Endek tendency that JK and his gang are very much part of. That and the fact that they are in every sense post-communist, with mindsets stuck 25 years in the past, whereas everyone else has moved on.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Feb 2016 #974
hates Poland

Nobody hates Poland more than PF's notorious tag team. Anybody patient enough to scroll back through their "arcane" anti-Polish utterances and "keep Poland down" rantings will become thoroughly convinced thereof.
jon357 66 | 17,040
18 Feb 2016 #975
Sadly, Po, that post sums up the hysteria that we are seeing at the moment from that largely rural section of society who support PIS and various other right-wing groups.

They genuinely do believe that there's a conspiracy to keep Poland down. As I say, a post-communist mindset that everyone else has moved on from.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
18 Feb 2016 #976
They genuinely do believe that there's a conspiracy to keep Poland down.

Yet, the funniest thing is that the current PZPRbis government *is* trying to hold Poland down. Having said that, farmers are very, very unhappy about the plans to impose restrictions on what they can do with their own land. Silesians in particular seem to be furious, but not only. If the farmers start coming out en masse, PiS are in deep trouble.
mafketis 24 | 9,374
18 Feb 2016 #977
f the farmers start coming out en masse, PiS are in deep trouble.

The bell-weather of the rural vote is support for PSL (ime they mostly won't vote for PO but they'll vote for PSL over PiS when they're unhappy with them).
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Feb 2016 #978
post-communist mindset

You will see the post-communist mindset emerge in full bloom when the secret RT film is aired. It shows Micnik buddy-buddy with Kiszczak saying somerthing like: The ideal arrangement would be Wałęsa for PM and Kiszcak as interior ministry chief. Stanisław Ciosek, negotiator for the commie side, said: "If this film is ever shown to the public we will all be called traitors and Targowica!"
jon357 66 | 17,040
18 Feb 2016 #979
the post-communist mindset emerge

Precisely.

So far, a great chunk of the PIS regime's efforts have been about dragging over that whole period vindictively whereas most people have moved on and are deeply uninterested.

I suppose it helps them distract from the attacks on law, justice and the constitution as well as their gross economic mismanagement.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
18 Feb 2016 #980
The bell-weather of the rural vote is support for PSL (ime they mostly won't vote for PO but they'll vote for PSL over PiS when they're unhappy with them).

Funny you should say this, because... there's a whole new scandal about to emerge.

Agricultural payments for 2015, not only did not come into the accounts of many farmers, but we still do not know when it will.

In December, ARMA, which the Deputy Minister of Agriculture Jacek Bogucki is responsible of said that the new government is not able to start to transfer money.

wyborcza.pl/1,75478,19641873,czystka-w-arimr-opoznia-wyplate-unijnych-pieniedzy-bieda-rolnika.html?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=SM&utm_campaign=FB_Gazeta_Wyborcza

Normally, farmers would have everything in their accounts by the end of the year. Is this government stupid, or what?
Harry
18 Feb 2016 #981
So far, a great chunk of the PIS regime's efforts have been about dragging over that whole period vindictively whereas most people have moved on and are deeply uninterested.

Yes, but most people don't look back with deep shame on the events of the 1960s, '70s and '80s; but lots of PIS lovers do, which is why they want to re-write history; for example they want there to have been a past where they weren't vile shills of Moscow and were instead the Polish patriots they pretend to be now.

In a way this is a good thing: the PIS crew are so busy looking back at the past they screwed up that they have less time to screw up Poland's present and future, which they certainly would do more if they had more time to do it in.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
18 Feb 2016 #982
What is decaying (and they absolutely can't stand this) is the inward-looking, rooted in spurious tradition, and largely derided neo-Endek tendency that JK and his gang are very much part of.

You have it all so wrong that it is funny. I'm not by all means PiS supporter but yes I supported them against PO and the system. I don't support them because they are devoid of those attributes you describe to them.

They are not Endek they are socialists, they are pro-EU, they are USA ass lickers, democratic and so fourth. The only reason is that they are patriots and adhere to the Polish history and don't embrace progressiveness.

You being from aboard and all filed to grasp what the Church mean in the Polish history and for Poles, being on the good side of Church is a police move as the large chunk of their constituency expect that, the same goes for so called gays rights.

You are looking at PiS from a completely wrong angle hence your skewed view. To make it easier for you to comprehend what it is al about any center-left party in the west from about 40 years ago. Not that that comparison hits the nail on the head but it give you at lest a glimpse of what I'm talking about.

If it comes to Endek's they are aplenty of young and a very young people organizing themselves and setting themselves for the next stage in the oncoming decades - win elections and set that country on the right path.
jon357 66 | 17,040
18 Feb 2016 #983
You have it all so wrong that it is funny

So right in fact.

It's clear you aren't a supporter, however almost anything would be a better alternative than them. The current national mood is really pessimistic.

They are not Endek they are socialists

Basically Nationalist + Socialist = National Socialist...

what the Church mean in the Polish history and for Poles

I'd say it's more complicated than that IS. There's long been a healthy contempt for the behaviour of the church, and the RCC in Poland is currently very problematic. If it weren't for their role in the last years of communism and the JP2 effect they would be in a far worse position - as it happens things have been normalising since JP2's death and the episcopate do not in any sense like that.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
18 Feb 2016 #984
Basically Nationalist + Socialist = National Socialist...

That your ideological bias talking for you everything left of Stalin is nationalist.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
18 Feb 2016 #985
If it weren't for their role in the last years of communism and the JP2 effect they would be in a far worse position

They would be in a comparable situation to Spain or Ireland. Anyone looking at the RCC these days can see that they're exactly on the same trajectory - which is downwards.

Oh, it just gets better and better.

tvn24bis.pl/z-kraju,74/mateusz-morawiecki-o-obnizeniu-wieku-emerytalnego,620725.html

It is not a hard commitment on the part of the government - said Mateusz Morawiecki on "Salonie politycznym Trójki", broadcast on the Polish Radio 3 when asked about the lowering of the retirement age.

Recall that Andrzej Duda repeatedly brought this up during his election campaign. Remember that Szydło also repeated it constantly during the election campaign. Now we hear that it's "not a hard commitment", despite Szydło saying that it was a priority for the first 100 days of government.

Hahahahaha. I hope all you PiS voting fools working in hard physical jobs remember the words of Morawiecki when dragging your broken and beaten carcasses off to another hard shift. Remember, it's "not a hard commitment" to let you retire earlier. ;)

And, just for kicks : the Ministry of Finance this year (so far) has increased the level of the Polish national debt by 20 billion. In just over 6 weeks.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
19 Feb 2016 #986
PiS voting fools

PiS-bashing fools will always nitpick because they're incapable of using their brains. Morawiecki's approach seems calm, balanced and reasonable. He isn't trying to hide anything from the public and admits the project is fraught with difficulties and a serious financial challenge in 3-4 years. And the measures will be monitored so appropriate modifications can be made.

That belies allegations that the PiS govt is a dictatorship.
On the other hand, ever hear of any politician who has fulfilled all his campaign promises 100%. It certainly wasn't Tusk or Komorowski.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
19 Feb 2016 #987
He isn't trying to hide anything from the public and admits the project is fraught with difficulties and a serious financial challenge in 3-4 years.

I knew you'd reply, so let me remind you of this...

According to the "manifesto agreement:"

(this was between Andrzej Duda and Solidarność)

The presidential candidate Andrzej Duda has specifically declared the implementation of the following policies: lowering the retirement age and determining the retirement benefit package by the length of employment;

currenteventspoland.com/news/solidarnosc-endorses-andrzej-duda-from-pis-for-president-of-poland.html

In other words, Duda promised a lower retirement age. Szydło promised a lower retirement age. Morawiecki is now saying that it wasn't a "hard commitment".

Enjoy your backbreaking physical minimum wage factory work at the age of 66, PiS voters. I'm sure your grandchildren won't miss you too much ;)
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
19 Feb 2016 #988
ever hear of any politician who has fulfilled all his campaign promises 100%.

Since you ducked the question, here it is again: Ever hear of any politician who has fulfilled all his campaign promises 100%?
It certainly wasn't Tusk or Komorowski. Campaigns function in one dimension whose primary purpose is to win votes, work-a-day reality is another ballgame. That is Political Science 101 (if you catch the Americanism).
Harry
19 Feb 2016 #989
Szydło promised a lower retirement age.

Yes, but what that cat Duda says doesn't matter (although I am looking forward to him saying "Guilty" when asked "How do you plead?") and what the marionette PM Szydlo says also doesn't matter. The only person in the PISlamic State whose voice matters is The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski.

Morawiecki is now saying that it wasn't a "hard commitment".

The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski is now using a different puppet to do the speaking, that's all.
jon357 66 | 17,040
19 Feb 2016 #990
I hope all you PiS voting fools working in hard physical jobs remember the words of Morawiecki when dragging your broken and beaten carcasses off to another hard shift.

So basically yet another promise they made that they had no intention of ever keeping. Echoes of the last (mercifully short) PIS regime all over again.

And, just for kicks : the Ministry of Finance this year (so far) has increased the level of the Polish national debt by 20 billion.

It's amazing to think that incompetence on such a scale is even possible.

Home / News / Poland's post-election political scene
Discussion is closed.