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Poland's post-election political scene


jon357 66 | 16,977
16 Feb 2016 #931
Much as i detest Jarosław Kaczyński, I wish him a (fairly) speedy return to health after last night's medical emergency and drama and hope that his serious health problems will be managed well.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
16 Feb 2016 #932
What a strange coincidence.

I'd much like to see how he paints the chaotic events since the election with the fantasy that PIS want the world to believe about Poland.

There was one article by that chap where he claimed that the KOD demonstrations were tiny and insignificant, but that was about it. Probably he didn't get the job with the government that he was expecting.
Harry
16 Feb 2016 #933
last night's medical emergency and drama

Got a link to any details about that?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
16 Feb 2016 #934
se.pl/wiadomosci/polityka/jaroslaw-kaczynski-w-szpitalu_779189.html - Jarosław Kaczyński in hospital - what's up with the Chairman of PiS?

Looks like he had an "allergic reaction", but the more cynical might suggest that he wanted to pull off another trick to maintain the cult.
jon357 66 | 16,977
16 Feb 2016 #935
His identical twin's health was such a concern at one point that there was serious discussion about the precise constitutional mechanism for removing a president from office if they are incapable of fully discharging their duties.

Jaro, being electorally toxic, doesn't hold public office apart from his parliamentary seat (having put in impotent
placeholders as president and premier) so that isn't an issue.

The significant thing is the unseemly scramble for succession among Ziobro etc.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
16 Feb 2016 #936
Aha. All is clear. Jarosław was conveniently taken to hospital on the same day as this -

wyborcza.pl/1,75478,19633193,agencji-cbs-weszli-do-siedziby-faktow-i-mitow-redaktor-naczelny.html?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=SM&utm_campaign=FB_Gazeta_Wyborcza

On Monday, February 15 in the morning came a dozen police agents to our offices. CBŚP arrested of Roman Kotliński - editor in chief and publisher of the 'Fakty i Mity'

So the harassment of non-PiS media has already started.

"We regard this as an attack on our editorial staff, in recent editions sharply criticized the current government and PiS" - In the last issue actually described "nepotism PiS" and "repayment with taxpayers' money the debts PiS with Father Rydzyk."

Utterly shocking.

Obviously PiS wanted to cover up the harassment of journalists, hence in their crude world, releasing a story about Jarosław being hospitalised would divert attention away from the real crimes being carried out.
Harry
16 Feb 2016 #937
Obviously PiS wanted to cover up the harassment of journalists, hence in their crude world, releasing a story about Jarosław being hospitalised would divert attention away from the real crimes being carried out.

Well, to be fair, they also needed to distract attention from this story:

National police boss Zbigniew Maj quit last week, after less than two months in the job, claiming former police officers were preparing a sting operation to discredit him.

Maj is among people being investigated in a corruption probe by prosecutors in the central city of Łódź. The Polish police come under the supervision of the interior ministry, which has been critcised by the opposition for allowing Maj to be appointed even though he is being investigated.

thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/240913,Polish-Interior-Minister-rejects-hysterical-calls-for-resignation
jon357 66 | 16,977
16 Feb 2016 #938
So the harassment of non-PiS media has already started.

According to the media, the raid wasn't part of any ongoing investigation and just seems like harassment - almost certainly score settling by some PIS mafia person in or near Łódż, probably to do with his political role.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #939
Roman Kotliński

Kotliński, a defrocked priest and anti-Catholic mud-slinger of the Urban ilk, is a truly shady character. He was linked up with Popiełuszko's murderer Grzegorz Piotrowski and dingbat politico Palikot. One shouldn't put anything past that bloke.

How the whole Church-bashing mafia is linked up is shown by the fact that Urban's article in the now defucnt "Express Wieczorny" was cited by Piotrowski at his trial up in Toruń as a go-ahead signal from above to carry out the the "neutralisation" of the pro-Solditary preacher. Piotrowski was convicted but amnestied early on and sought refuge under Kotliński's wing.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
16 Feb 2016 #940
Notice how Polonius completely fails to condemn attacks on the independent media.
Harry
16 Feb 2016 #941
just seems like harassment

Is it really any surprise that the PIS lovers are abusing the forces of law and order in order to carry out their personal vendettas?

a truly shady character. He was linked up with Popiełuszko's murderer Grzegorz Piotrowski

Sounds dangerously over-qualified for a top job with PIS.

the independent media.

Perhaps Po supports setting up an approved media agency which will be the only one allowed to operate in Poland.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #942
independent media

A pitiful rag with shady connections is an "independent medium" to you?
jon357 66 | 16,977
16 Feb 2016 #943
Notice how Polonius completely fails to condemn attacks on the independent media.

Screamingly obvious.

Echoes of when PIS were briefly in office before and they sent something close to a SWAT team to arrest Piotr Ikonowicz, also a vocal critic of theirs.
Ironside 50 | 10,935
16 Feb 2016 #944
Notice how Polonius completely fails to condemn attacks on the independent media.

How is that an attack on the media? Are you trying to say that by the token of being a journalist he has been granted immunity from being investigated by the police?

Hard not to notice that trio posting above you could start a choir as you are all singing in unison already! lol!
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #945
independent media.

I think it's more interesting to see the kind of bedfellows you get into the sack to discredit PiS. Kotliński, a defrocked priest who aided nad abetted Popiełuszko's convicted murderer, is being investigated on suspicion of contracting a hitman to rub out his former live-in lover who was murdered. A very "savoury" type by your standards, eh? Right up the same alley as your otehr idols nad gurus -- Urban, Palikot and the three stooges sent by Kiszczak to "neutralise" Popiełuszko.

Kotliński

It turns out that contracting a hitman was not a first for Kotliński. Earlier he was invesitgated on suspicon of putting out a contarct on a former SLD finance minister over an unpaid loan of 7 million zł. He also had ties with gangsters of the Pruszków gang and some shady connection with Gazprom, operatives. Yes, a true hero for the jons, Delphs and Rogers of this world!
jon357 66 | 16,977
16 Feb 2016 #946
Are you trying to say that by the token of being a journalist he has been granted immunity from being investigated by the police

If you read the media, he wasn't being investigated.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
16 Feb 2016 #947
Which means that it's a purely political move.

Still, we all know how America will react to an assault on an independent source of news. PiS are digging their own grave, just as we all predicted.
Ironside 50 | 10,935
16 Feb 2016 #948
If you read the media, he wasn't being investigated.

If you believe them that is. I would think that involvement of the CBS in this case would warranty that this is about some heavy stuff. (they are kinda Polish FBI)

Still, we all know how America will react

We all know that you don't like PiS on principle, you don't need to be so obvious about it.
jon357 66 | 16,977
16 Feb 2016 #949
If you believe them that is

I do. There's know suggestion of journalistic wrongdoing by them, and PIS have a long history of misusing organs of the state for their own political ends.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
16 Feb 2016 #950
If you believe them that is. I would think that involvement of the CBS in this case would warranty that this is about some heavy stuff. (they are kinda Polish FBI)

It's normal for PiS to use the security agencies against perceived enemies. They're much easier to control and manipulate.

We all know that you don't like PiS on principle, you don't need to be so obvious about it.

It's not me that they should worry about, it's how it will be reported abroad that they should worry about. It certainly won't convince any decision makers that Poland can be trusted with a NATO base.
Ironside 50 | 10,935
16 Feb 2016 #951
It's normal for PiS to use the security agencies against perceived enemies.

Hmm you mean PO who has been harassing more than one person, some even have been arrested for years without trial on trump up charges what is against the law.

Name one person who have been persecuted during the time PiS was in charge and who proved to be innocent?

It's not me that they should worry about, it's how it will be reported abroad that they should worry about

If they would be worried by a small issue like that that would be no a chance for such a base in the first place.
jon357 66 | 16,977
16 Feb 2016 #952
It's normal for PiS to use the security agencies against perceived enemies.

Look at the IPN fiasco last time round and Wildstein's List.
Harry
16 Feb 2016 #953
Name one person who have been persecuted during the time PiS was in charge and who proved to be innocent?

Mirosław Garlicki. Ziobro and self-confessed criminal Mariusz Kamiński held aa press conference to announce the doctor was a murderer, and then it turned out, er, he wasn't.
Ironside 50 | 10,935
16 Feb 2016 #954
Mirosław Garlicki

He was without doubt corrupted.

Ziobro and self-confessed criminal Mariusz Kamiński held aa press conference to announce the doctor was a murderer,

Nah, he announced him responsible for his patient dead due to malpractice. He would have been found guilty in the USA but in Poland he walked scot free, doubts remained.

Anyway he wasn't harassed and what more it had nothing to do with politicks.
The only criminal is that judge who passed that idiotic and nonsensical sentence in the case of MK.

Look at the IPN fiasco last time round and Wildstein's List.

Such a thing as the W list is just a humbug. What IPN fiasco?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
17 Feb 2016 #955
I give her two months at most

Well, two months have elapsed and Szydło is still around. Care to update yoru prediction?
mafketis 24 | 9,361
17 Feb 2016 #956
Care to update yoru prediction?

She'll be dumped the second she's seen as a hindrance to the PiS leadership by disagreeing with JK about anything and/or developing a power base of her own (or if it just seems expedient for any other reason).

As long as she's compliant and is not her own woman she'll last in the job...
Ziemowit 13 | 4,272
17 Feb 2016 #957
So, "two months at most" wasn't a very good prediction. "Two months at most if she's not compliant" would be much better, however.

It is so good, Polo, that you keep an eye on false predictions announced here. Predictions that are politically motivated, but have nothing in common with a more in-depth analysis.

My analysis - I hope it is more in-depth - is that our Dear Leader Chairman Jarosław Kaczyński ("Jaro" for friends) is in somewhat different position towards Beata Szydło than he was when he decided to get rid of Kazimierz Marcinkiewicz ("Kazio" for friends). For one thing, she and not Jaro run the successful electoral campaign of Andrzej Duda who is now our Dear President of the Republic of Poland. Next, she was equally successful in her own campaign. So her position is much stronger than that of Kazio. And in case she is in disagreement with Jaro, but has the support of several other members of the cabinet or prominent PiS figures, it would not be so easy for Dear Leader Chairman Jarosław Kaczyński to put her on a side track. Kazio Marcinkiewicz was a just puppet and as soon as he forgot it, he was lost. This is not the case of Beata Szydło.

When things go well, there is no reason for any disruption within PiS. Even the widow of the late communist interior minister general Czesław Kiszczak seems to be on the PiS side bringing to the IPN some documents concerning TW Bolek (allegedly Lech Wałęsa). True, she's about 80 year old now, so she may have confounded the addresses. But it may all change when the financing of PiS electoral promises runs short. There we may see some serious difference of opinion and I sincerely doubt if Jaro will be in a position to simply fire anyone who disagrees with him.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
17 Feb 2016 #958
This is not the case of Beata Szydło.

I think one other difference is that Szydło knows not to try and become too popular domestically. If you notice, she isn't the 'face' of PiS - that remains Kaczyński, and all the important meetings are conducted with him meeting foreign leaders, not her. Marcinkiewicz on the other hand was genuinely popular, and would almost certainly have become leader of PiS had Kaczyński not dealt with him in time.

There we may see some serious difference of opinion and I sincerely doubt if Jaro will be in a position to simply fire anyone who disagrees with him.

The big question is how long those in the Morawiecki camp will last. He's already made it clear that the 500+ programme is irresponsible and wreckless, and the government passing the law regardless of what the Ministry of Finance said shows that PiS are simply taking on extra debt to try and pay for the electoral sausage.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
17 Feb 2016 #959
other difference

There is no difference, it's just more of your borignly predictable PiS-bashing. As imaginative and fresh as a broken record.
All we are saying is: GIVE PiS A CHANCE!
jon357 66 | 16,977
17 Feb 2016 #960
ther difference is that Szydło knows not to try and become too popular domestically.

Basically she and the dud Duda are in the same position as people who held essentially meaningless (in this situation) titles like prime minister or president back in the Soviet Union. For decades the president was Anastas Mikoyan and there were a few prime ministers however the true leader was Stalin, Krushchev etc...

Just another abuse of democracy.

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