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Poland's post-election political scene


delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
15 Feb 2016 #901
It's only really newsworthy because PiS sent in the big guns to secure victory and failed.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Feb 2016 #902
and failed

Schadenfreude!
dolnoslask
15 Feb 2016 #903
Sadly some people just cannot wait the four years before another proper national vote takes place, so many sleepless nights and general moans and groans and internet forum postings.
jon357 66 | 17,068
15 Feb 2016 #904
Rural voters are clearly not happy with PiS.

Good news and looks like it will be reflected country-wide.

The end of the beginning was a little while ago when they attacked the constitutional court - this is a further step towards the beginning of the end which will of course be the local election disaster.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #905
looks like it will be reflected country-wide

Indeed, the end is now. Starting Tuesday in surveys PO will get 40% support like PiS did on Monday, Petru will be at 38%. PSL at 35%, PiS will win 12% backing and Kukiz will barely squeak by with 5%. And then the alarm clock went off....
jon357 66 | 17,068
16 Feb 2016 #906
cklock

It's ticking already. And very ominously for the current regime...
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #907
ominously

Only for the KOD creeps and other disgruntled poor losers. They willl not be part of the winning pro-Polish team. and thank goodness for that!
jon357 66 | 17,068
16 Feb 2016 #908
That comes across like some PRL-era propagandist talking.

In fact PIS have declined in support and credibility since they were elected and Jaro/Macierewicz half stepped out of their shadows.

The election result is a good one and it does very much look like they'll be repeated country-wide.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #909
declined in support

You have extremely "exotic" definitions of many terms including "decline". The latest TNS Polska poll showed PiS getting 40% support or more than they did on election day. If that is decline, then I'm the King of Scotland.
jon357 66 | 17,068
16 Feb 2016 #910
As has been said here before, don't rely too much on that particular poll.

You just don't want to face the fact that PIS are doing very badly and the situation has only worsened.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
16 Feb 2016 #911
As has been said here before, don't rely too much on that particular poll.

The only polls that matter are the real ones, and PiS have just been handed their first loss.
jon357 66 | 17,068
16 Feb 2016 #912
Law and Justice" is a reference neither to law and order nor social justice, but to the idea that the Polish state itself is lawless and unjust. If the state is illegitimate, the normal rules of political behaviour no longer apply.

When an MP from a party supportive of Law and Justice declared in parliament in November that "The good of the nation is above the law," he received a standing ovation from Law and Justice deputies, includin Jarosław Kaczyński.

One of the very best articles I've seen in the foreign press. From an independent source, very well-written and sums it up perfectly...

All the paranoia, the spite, the historical messianism and points out the anomaly that the person who actually runs the country holds no public office apart from being an MP.

Contempt for the rule of law; the identification of a minority faction with the interests of the nation; the separation of power from office by constructing extra-legal chains of command; demonisation of opponents and purges of state structures; an ideological re-interpretation of history: these are all legacies of communist rule.

theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/16/conspiracy-theorists-who-have-taken-over-poland
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #913
their first loss

The next one will be in Kozia Wólka (Goatbury) and the third in Gnojnica (Dungville) or maybe Świniary (Swineherds). Tremble in fear, PiS, the end is nigh!
Chemikiem 7 | 2,509
16 Feb 2016 #914
One of the very best articles I've seen in the foreign press.

You beat me to it! I've just read this, and although quite a long read, it's really interesting.
jon357 66 | 17,068
16 Feb 2016 #915
tremble in fear, PiS, the end is nigh!

It certainly is.

To quote from the excellent article, which is one of the best assessments of the whole awful situation that has so far been published

(that 50-word limit is a drag, especially if there's something really worth posting that's, say, 70 words)

Law and Justice blends the religious and patriotic rituals of Poland's long history of resistance to foreign oppression with hostility to free-market capitalism and heavy dose of conspiracy regarding machinations of Poland's enemies.... supported by sympathetic smaller parties, ultra-Catholic media, nationalist youth organisations and an assortment of cranks and cynics

A quarter of a century after the end of communism, the alleged hold of communists over the Polish state is still being used as a pretext to deploy communist-era methods to take hold of the Polish state.

OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #916
free-market capitalism

And unrestrained free-market capitalism is the ideal, faultless, shining beacon of virtue, justice and prosperity for all.
jon357 66 | 17,068
16 Feb 2016 #917
Essentially yes, since the socialist economic model that you admire so much tends to impoverish people in every sense.

Read the article, Po. It's free of hysterical polemicising and analyses the situation in a concise, if rather too restrained, way.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #918
a minority faction

What then is Poland's majority faction, PSL? The article you so admire is a load of underinformed prattle but beloved by all Poland-bashers and supporters of inside (un-decommunised PZPR and secret-service types) and outside (foreign corproate) interest groups. That significant component of the PO-Petru-KOD opposition's support basehas been judiciously ignored by the article.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
16 Feb 2016 #919
Tremble in fear, PiS, the end is nigh!

You're not very politically astute, are you? PiS lost in a town that they should have easily won - no amount of stupid mocking will change that.

Essentially yes, since the socialist economic model that you admire so much tends to impoverish people in every sense.

The entire point is to impoverish everyone except people that benefit from Jarosław's political patronage. The PZPR operated on identical lines, really.
Harry
16 Feb 2016 #920
To quote from the excellent article

It is indeed an excellent article.

Law and Justice leaders and supporters make associations between their political opponents and Poland's historic enemies and traitors by drawing attention to "suspicious" aspects of their backgrounds.

But they strangely completely ignore the crystal clear parts of the pasts of their supporters who used to be loyal servants of the Party and of Moscow, much as the number one PIS lover here wants everybody to ignore his own past as a loyal shill of Moscow and the Party.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
16 Feb 2016 #921
Furthermore, the nomeklatura links between PiS and the PZPR weren't mentioned.

I wonder how long it will be before some research is done into those links.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #922
nomeklatura links

More codswallop & bollocks! The bulk of the nomenklatura cast-offs support the oppsition. That's why Poles call them "obrońcy koryta" (Google translate). Yes, Delph, its time to dredge up "the endless" ex-PZPR types appointed by PiS and then mention good ol' Piotrowicz.

You'll be up the creek without a paddle if he fails to get re-elected in 2019.
Hey, I know what you can do: you can modify your rhetoric and accuse PiS of their "formerly endless PZPR appointees" and mention ex-Piotrowicz for good measure. LOL! I
Harry
16 Feb 2016 #923
I wonder how long it will be before some research is done into those links.

There already has been some. For a start there's been the information about that former shill of Moscow in the US press who now shills for PIS.

You'll be up the creek without a paddle if he fails to get re-elected in 2019.

Although not to the same extent as that cat Duda will be if he fails to get re-elected in 2020, given that his immunity will then expire long before the statute of limitations for his crimes does.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
16 Feb 2016 #924
For a start there's been the information about that former shill of Moscow in the US press who now shills for PIS.

I read something about that guy somewhere, about how he was effectively Moscow and Warsaw's man in the US press and was paid to present a favourable view of both countries, back in the day when the printed media was the only real source of information for the Polonia.

He's not the only one though. Notice a common trend online is for the biographies of PiS members to omit information about what their parents did?
Ironside 50 | 10,939
16 Feb 2016 #925
It

However, they built their careers on the argument that Wałęsa and the liberal intellectuals at the top of Solidarity betrayed Poland's transition to democracy by allowing communists to keep their hands on the levers of power in exchange for the status of high office

Hmm ...isn't that an obvious fact rather than an argument as they put it?
All seems to be forgetting that Walesa in second go at the office as an acting president got 1% of votes - an unprecedented result for the last two decades.

Fuelled by a cocktail of grief and revenge, the controversy surrounding his brother's death gave new impetus to Jarosław's mission to "remodel" Polish democracy

That is actually a lie, they had the same goal all along or at least they claimed they had. 2010 hasn't changed that much in the PiS political line.

gangsters", "cronies", and "reds"

That's what they are! He doesn't brand them, he repeats after others. It is not that is PiS rhetoric, all patriots in Poland agree in that even if they disagree on everything else.

he claimed that migrants from the Middle East were bringing cholera and dysentery to Europe, risking the spread of "various parasites and protozoa

People without any papers form all corners of the world, leaving in unhygienic circumstances for months if not years, camped together and tramping through the mud, woods and fields across many countries are just happy and healthy as Larry. All they spread is love, rainbows and unicorns.

he implied that people demonstrating against the Law and Justice government were "the worst sort of Poles"

That is another lie. In 45 minutes interview asked what he thinks about Polish politicians denouncing and slandering newly elected Polish government (at the time of the interview they were in power like a month) to all he cares to listen or they political friends in the various countries of the world.

It wasn't never about those who opposed him nor about demonstrators it was aimed at those politicians who were doing that.
Anyway in my opinion those demonstrating are scum and that is evident. Peru a long time lobbyist for banksters in Poland, Lis a long time propagandist for the post-communist scum that were in charge for the last two decades in one form or other, others prominent activist and politicians of the system.

the convulsions that threaten further to destabilise Europe in its hour of crisis.

Oh really? Well fekk you very much! Is not for a self proclaimed Emperor of Europe Merkel there wouldn't be any hour of need. On the other hand due to the EU polices Europe is constantly in its hour of crisis if not one thing than another.

About all those pages long rambling one only can be said. It is a fact that after 1989 people who make a deal where supping each other and old commies plus few so called Solidarity leaders (in fact they were people chosen by the comes to play the part of the opposition) have been given a place on the bench.

Most people have been fooled or have been not in position to organize or do something about after 40 years of the soviets oppression. A level playfield wasn't something that existed at all.

To make a long story short those people who have been beneficiary of the 89' transition of power wouldn't have lost the last election if not for the fact that their are totally unable to government a country or anything at all.

They are an end result of the system that at its core is parasitic, they wouldn't be able to exists without taxes and a state support. To improve economical, political or any other issue for Poland and Poles they have proven to be unable.

Whatever or not PiS will do a better job - I do not know, I have my doubts.
There is few promising movements in Poland with a popular support from the young people for the most part!

In the messianist mindset,

What he/she is about? That is some kind of nonsense? Religion is often only rhetoric's in some circles in Poland, even those who are actually believers and see religion as an important part of the Polish education and culture do not embrace that 200 years romantic concept of a long dead poet. Creepers what a stupid thing to write. Next we can hear about Baryonic mindset in regard to the British contemporary politicians.

In fact Smolensk was handled so badly by Tusk's government that he should be held personally responsible for that utter failure and I think some jail time for him is due.

It is an assertion that depends on the notion of Poland eternally under siege

Aha! Where did you get it from, should tray your hand as a political fiction writer.
The thing is people are hoping that PiS will be solving problems, that would be in contrast to PO who was creating problems and fighting with anti-Semites, homophobes and rainbow haters, telling people it is OK to die in the ditch from starvation as long as a progressive world is loving Poland for their progressive thieving inept leaders i.e. themselves.

Angela Merkel may have been brought to power by the Stasi

Rather pointing out her background that is not exactly devoid of shadows.
When an MP from a party supportive of Law and Justice declared in parliament in November that "The good of the nation is above the law

Hmm rather not part of the pack like the rest of them - supportive is that even means anything in politics? Surely if you know that you know also context? If you know that context you cannot but agree with that a statemant made by a hero of Solidarity movement! Morawiecki is a real hero and a fake one like Walensa who according to himself is a progeny of the imperator Valens lol!

attempts to dismantle the independent institutions of the post-1989 republic,

Aha for example a symbol of the independent republic - Constructional Tribunal - created by the soviet general Jaruzelski to justify all unlawful acts of his military coup and who is responsible for many a murders of people who resists his commie rule and his Soviet masters including 16 years old poet.

In all a good inside into not so nice midst of somebody who evident has no clue or aim to misinform!
Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
16 Feb 2016 #926
Anyway, the result : PSL 66%, PiS 34%.

The result of this by-election is completely irrelevant at the national level. First, both candidates had their proper election committees and were only supported by PSL and PiS respectively. Second, the number of votes for the candidates concerned :

Renata Chrobocińska - 131 votes
Hanna Kuźniewska - 68 votes

is so tiny that you can only see this election as a small local one with people voting not for a political party and their programme, but for the candidtate they or their family personally know.

The most interesting thing in an GW article on that, however, is that the by-election was held because it turned out that the candidate winning the seat in 2014 was not eligibile for starting in the election (jeden z dotychczasowych radnych stracił mandat z powodu braku posiadania biernego prawa wyborczego w dniu wyborów przeprowadzonych jesienią 2014 r.). This in itself seems to be the most scandalous thing in the whole affair and if "Gazeta Wyborcza" wanted to be a truly high-quality paper, it should put most emphasis on the fact that a councillor had been in position for more than a year without having any legal right to it. But instead the paper is ranting endlessly about how significant this victory of PSL over PiS was.

plock.wyborcza.pl/plock/1,35710,19630204,wybory-uzupelniajace-w-drobinie-znaczace-zwyciestwo-psl-nad.html#ixzz40KjGFB00
G (undercover)
16 Feb 2016 #927
Ladies and gentlemen, major milestone in Polish politics, elections in Drobin :))))))))))
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #928
the paper is ranting endlessly about how significant this victory

So it's from the Jewish Chronicle again. And here I was wondering whether Delph has access to some new anti-PiS website or blog which dredges up obscure minor incidents and bits of irrelevant trivia from one-horse hicktowns to bash PiS with.
Harry
16 Feb 2016 #929
that guy somewhere, about how he was effectively Moscow and Warsaw's man in the US press and was paid to present a favourable view of both countries, back in the day when the printed media was the only real source of information for the Polonia.

That's the individual I was referring to. But there doesn't seem to be much from him since PIS swept to power with the votes of the same percentage of Poles as the percentage of Poles who were in the commie Party back in the day; have you seen anything? I'd much like to see how he paints the chaotic events since the election with the fantasy that PIS want the world to believe about Poland.

the by-election was held because it turned out that the candidate winning the seat in 2014 was not eligibile for starting in the election ...

Well that would depend on what the reason for the person not being eligible was. Was it a good faith mistake such as not knowing where the boundary line between two regions exactly is? Or was it a darker and more deliberate fix. The fact you fail to mention the reason makes me think it might well be more likely to be the former than the latter.

the Jewish Chronicle

So much bitterness; you remind me of an article I read recently where the writer whined about Jews who "keep harping on the six million Jews killed by Hitler".
Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
16 Feb 2016 #930
The fact you fail to mention the reason makes me think it might well be more likely to be the former than the latter.

It is not me who fails to mention the reason. It is Gazeta Wyborcza who failed to do so. And didn't I say precisely that they should put more emphasis on this rather than on the fact that PiS lost this tiny by-election.

This in itself seems to be the most scandalous thing in the whole affair and if "Gazeta Wyborcza" wanted to be a truly high-quality paper, it should put most emphasis on the fact ...

-----------------------------------

So it's from the Jewish Chronicle again.

I don't think it is fair to call them "the Jewish Chronicle". If you say so, it may imply they are a paper that mainly reports Jewish events which is not true. If you refer to the fact that mostly Jewish people are behind it and so it is this "Jewish connection" which has to be considered first in Polish politics, you should comment on the fact that Jarosław Kurski is the deputy-chief of GW while his brother Jacek Kurski is a well-known PiS fighter which has recently been nominated to the position of public TV chairman.

Personally I prefer to call them "Gazeta Wybiórcza" as their reporting is pretty far from being objective and balanced.

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