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Poland's post-election political scene


Miloslaw 8 | 3,220
31 Oct 2018 #3,901
Spike has been listening to his grandad's stories

There is nothing wrong with listening to grandparents stories.
They can be a wealth of knowledge,experience and wisdom.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
1 Nov 2018 #3,902
- ruling party (PiS) won the elections, but they clearly hoped for a better result. Still, they've definitely gained more ground compared to previous local elections which is enough for them to claim it was a success

- main opposition (PO) went as a coalition with some leftist groups and they managed to more or less keep their possessions. They've lost centrists voters to PiS, but gained most of the far-left electorate

- as a result of the above, far-left and post-commie parties got wrecked, despite previous polls showing they will make a resurgence

- PSL (people's/farmers' party) lost many of their holdings, but managed to keep the solid third place. Although it's pretty much broadly accepted, that their previous exceptionally good election result was based on low-level election fraud, thus nothing really changed electorate-wise.

- independents and Kukiz'15 (Polish version of M5S) got around 6% each and will not matter much in bigger picture, although they might just be enough to tip the scales in some places,

And also worth noting: record high voter turnout for this type of elections.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
4 Nov 2018 #3,903
And so, the results of the second round in the mayoral elections.

PiS have been beaten badly in the two key races in Kraków and Gdańsk - almost 2/3rds went to Majchrowski and Adamowicz, while they've also lost in Kielce by a similar margin. They've also lost in Radom, meaning that PiS have lost 18:1 in the 19 biggest Polish cities. The only city where they "won" was in Katowice, where they supported the independent mayor.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
4 Nov 2018 #3,904
Main division line is city vs rural dwellers. Cities vote for KO, rural areas for PiS. This is a problem for PiS, 'cause most of the seats of presidents and mayors of big cities will remain in the hands of opposition. Not that much of big deal from purely political perspective, but those seats are quite prestigious.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
4 Nov 2018 #3,905
Main division line is city vs rural dwellers

Which is failry new, it used to be an West-East division (Polska A, Polska B).
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
4 Nov 2018 #3,906
Yeah, it's quite interesting how it evolved. There's some news about how attendance at religion classes in Łódź has dropped by half in just 3 years (from 80 to 40%), and this might just be further evidence of that.

The bad news for PiS in these results is that they seem to have completely failed at picking up voters from other parties. I'm also quite surprised, I expected Wassermann to get even as high as 45% of the vote, but she was a long way away from it.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
5 Nov 2018 #3,908
Final results: PiS won only 6 out of the 107 largest cities (which have a President of the City rather than a mayor/head of the commune). The largest place they won was in Zamość with 65,000 people - everything else went against them. They lost many places in their heartlands, including Sanok, Siedlce and Nowy Sącz.

Full results here: oko.press/krzyzyk-na-pis-na-107-miast-prezydenckich-rzadzic-beda-tylko-w-6-ko-w-28-triumf-niezaleznych

What's notable about these results is that PiS barely increased their votes in the second round. PiS lost nearly 3:1 in Przemyśl despite Kaczyński giving a fiery speech there, they lost in in Nowy Sącz despite Duda turning up in the graveyard to support their candidate, and they even lost in Biała Podlaska to KO, despite crushing PO there in 2014.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
5 Nov 2018 #3,909
PiS won only 6 out of the 107 largest cities

Pis didn't do too well in the cities during the main elections, nothing new difference of 4?

Ignoring the cities, Pis is way ahead in the regional assemblies, and that's what counts.

Shows the split between those in the cities and those in the countryside, Interesting
mafketis 24 | 9,387
6 Nov 2018 #3,910
@kondzior

I bet there are some altar boys right now sh1tting bricks....

despite Duda turning up in the graveyard to support their candidate

I know what you mean, but that's funny. And poor Adrian just cannot catch a break lately (even with a two handed break catcher in a field of handicapped breaks)
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
6 Nov 2018 #3,911
Dolno - there has been that split for 15 years but what is different now is that the towns in the east and the small towns in the west are not voting for PiS.

As a result there is a huge gap growing between the political views of those people who pay taxes and employ people and those that do not - it is very dangerous for the country and neither of the political sides is doing enough to fix this issue.

I think there are quite a lot of people who are happy with the policies of PiS but are put off by the links with the church and the vindictiveness and propaganda
TWPOscar 1 | 10
7 Nov 2018 #3,912
But the Church and Catholicism are important. It keeps Poland Polish and resistant to other less-tolerant religions that we currently have in Europe.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
7 Nov 2018 #3,913
the Church and Catholicism are important. It keeps Poland Polish

This is one of the biggest misunderstandings of Poland and Polish reality.

During the communist period it stood against state power and everyone supported it (even many non-believers) now it's aligned with state power and a lot of people don't like that (or innovations like religion classes in school).

The church has been losing support ever since it threw in its lot with the government - Polish people only like the church when it stays out of politics (or provides a voice against a repressive government).
Dougpol1 32 | 3,245
7 Nov 2018 #3,914
a lot of people who are happy with the policies of PiS but are put off by the links with the church and the vindictiveness and propaganda

That's it, in a nutshell. You forgot the bit about cancelling or postponing infrastructure projects (the A6 motorway for example) to pay for the 500.That's got people hopping in my neck of the woods.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
7 Nov 2018 #3,915
Polish people only like the church

Polish people are divided on the issue, still is a far cry to anything you can see outside Poland.

Real Polish people i.e. with a modicum of education and some cultural awareness regardless of their political affiliation and religiousness are very much aware how much Polish nation and Polish history is intertwined with the religion. How much it owes to the church and how much it is a part of the fabric of what makes Polish people Polish.

Only foreigners, some Polish speaking soviets and other flotsam are those that have a problem with the issue or an axe to grind. Neo-Marxist or so called liberals with chip on their shoulder can just bugger off for a lack of the better word.

Hey those who are prattling about how religious and Catholic Poland is should aloe know what they are talking about. Comparing to what? Some religious and cultural wasteland in Germany or France - yes possibly. Poland doesn't differ much in that regard (religion)from the USA bar there much more denominations and all and sundry practices. Anyone can find what they are looking for.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
7 Nov 2018 #3,916
Only foreigners, some Polish speaking soviets and other flotsam are those that have a problem with the issue or an axe to grind

First, referring to everyone you don't like as "soviet" is old and stale, buy a new vowel.

Second, I have no problem with the connections between Poland and the church, but the church has undoubtedly lost a lot of support over the last 25 years or so, a trend that shows no signs of abating (and can be directly tied to the church acting politically when/where a lot of people don't want it.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
7 Nov 2018 #3,917
First, referring to everyone you don't like as "soviet" is old and stale, buy a new vowel.

Is not about who a like or not. It is easier to describe all kind of culturally deprived people or people who have post-colonial mentality or those who were and are culturally soviets whether they realize or not. You cannot just erase those issues bevosue you don't like the term I'm suing or cause you don't understand it?.

After all lost of people are rooted culturally and mentally in PRL not in the Polish culture. Why you propose I call them? Is that even possible on the interact forum?

I measure them against standards of the Polish traditions, culture and history and if I find then lacking they end up being soviets and I think that is pretty solid measurement.

Foe example:
I have nothing against left as long as it is left they has been a part of the Polish tradition. Which in nutshell means - Poland needs to be independent first and leftist second.

a trend that shows no signs of abating (and can be directly tied to the church acting politically when/where a lot of people don't want it.

Eh.... is has nothing to do with politics, simply people do not bother to go to church. Majority of the Polish populace is very superficial when it comes to religion it is mostly custom, cultural thingy.

Those who are into religion or those who are more aware culturally have problem with bishops who are into progressives and left.

Also there is a lot of anti-clerical grumbling but it has always been a part of deal. Nothing new there - some foreigners take it as people turning away from the church lol1
pawian 176 | 14,299
15 Jul 2020 #3,918
Konfederacja wants the government to declare Georgette Mosbacher persona non grata and for her to be replaced

Yes, they opt for Poland`s full independence, both from the EU and the USA, not realising countries like ours can`t stay alone coz sooner or later they are swallowed by more aggressive neighbours.

Or, many suspect the independence is only smoike screen, while in fact they are the hidden 5th column, secretly working on behalf of the Kremlin which wants to divide and conquer the West.

Or maybe.... they're being used by PiS as informal bad cops?

Yes, they feel she is a serious obstacle to their plans of subjugating Polish free thought.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
15 Jul 2020 #3,919
not realising countries like ours can`t stay alone coz sooner or later they are swallowed by more aggressive neighbours.

No country can really stand alone in the modern world, it's only a question of who your allies are. And I'm afraid Konfederacja idiots think Russia would be a good ally (based on their similar authoritarian leanings).

In terms of Mosbacher, her spirited defense of a free press is in direct conflict with the PiS desire to criminalize criticism (or scrutiny). Again, straight from the PRL playbook.
pawian 176 | 14,299
15 Jul 2020 #3,920
In terms of Mosbacher, her spirited defense of a free press

Also, defence of LGBT 1-2 weeks ago. She is a tough woman who is able to make males stand to attention. PiS did stand after she had frowned. But chauvinist Konfederacja refuses to let them be tossed around by a female, that is why they want to have her scrubbed. hahaha

Again, straight from the PRL playbook.

Yes, on the one hand, we dislike PiS for their multiple references to communist past. We thought that those horrors are long gone.

On the other hand, isn`t it wonderful to relive your youth once again? When you were fiercely anti-communist, participated in student strikes, were intimidated and threatened by secret police or party apparatchiks, refused to watch TV as a tool of dirty propaganda, admired the opposition activists who openly dared the system and were imprisoned for their views ect ect?

Shouldn`t we thank PiS for bringing it all back so that we can feel young again?
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
15 Jul 2020 #3,921
She is a tough woman who is able to make males stand to attention.

Ohhhh Errrrrrr a Political fluffer , get you Pawian.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
15 Jul 2020 #3,922
Georgette Mosbacher

Son prénom 'Georgette' est si mignon qu'elle ne devrait rester que pour cette raison.

refused to watch TV as a tool of dirty propaganda

This in particular is again nasty to the extreme.
pawian 176 | 14,299
15 Jul 2020 #3,923
mignon

Mignon is about Minionki? I think I watched this series with my kids.

This in particular is again nasty to the extreme.

Worse than the communist TV, much worse. It is amazing that they have surpassed communists in dishing out such brainwashing stuff.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
15 Jul 2020 #3,924
Mignon is about Minionki?

'Mignon' means 'cute' here. I would have never thought the Americans could send such a cute lady as their ambassador to Poland.
gumishu 11 | 5,605
16 Jul 2020 #3,925
admired the opposition activists who openly dared the system and were imprisoned for their views ect ect?

oh yeah, you will be sent to a new Bereza Kartuska for a life sentence - get a life man
jon357 66 | 17,078
16 Jul 2020 #3,926
the opposition activists who openly dared the system and were imprisoned for their views

Fortunately EU membership (and the council of Europe) means they can't get away with that so easily now.
Zlatko
16 Jul 2020 #3,927
So was the Komorowski era better than Duda's? 5 more years of Duda seem too much.
mafketis 24 | 9,387
16 Jul 2020 #3,928
5 more years of Duda seem too much.

It depends on whether PiS can avoid early elections. There are a lot of signs that it's splintering (it's largely made up of factions that hate each other).

If JK becomes to weak to enforce discipline then all bets are off....
pawian 176 | 14,299
16 Jul 2020 #3,929
I would have never thought the Americans could send such a cute lady as their ambassador to Poland.

I read an article about her. She has always been an independent, hard-working, active person.

oh yeah, you will be sent to a new Bereza Kartuska for a life sentence - get a life man

Who says about life sentence? A week is enough. And PiS is able to and would like to introduce harsh measures. Fortunately, the resistance is still too strong for them .

Fortunately EU membership (and the council of Europe) means they can't get away with that so easily now.

Yes,. but not only that. I mean also local resistance - e..g, most judiciary are still independent, PIS haven`t managed to intimidate them. Gumishu described it as: the courts are still on PO`s side. hahaha
gumishu 11 | 5,605
17 Jul 2020 #3,930
And PiS is able to and would like to introduce harsh measures

says who? you? - any meaningful signs from the real reality (as opposed to your conviction)?

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