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Poland's PiS party members and crime


gregy741 4 | 1,204
18 Nov 2015 #121
If you want to start such a thread, do so, but this is about the fact (made official today) that Kamiński is a criminal.

"Poland's PiS party members and crime"
its rather pathetic that you need to resolve to scam like ,stalinist way-made "criminals" in order to "expose" PIS "criminality"

funny really.
its that all you got?need corrupted judge to connect PIS with crime? sounds like stalinist s.hit all over again
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Nov 2015 #122
independent court in democratic Poland

Stalin's Russia and PRL also had nominally "independent" courts and were nominally "democratic" countries. Courts, judges and prosecutors in the Polish Platformers Republic also knew what side their bread was buttered on.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
18 Nov 2015 #123
its rather pathetic that you need to resolve to scam like ,stalinist way-made "criminals" in order to "expose" PIS "criminality"

It shows a lot about you that you think that the courts were influenced by politicians. Did you learn that on your father's knee?

Courts, judges and prosecutors in the Polish Platformers Republic also knew what side their bread was buttered on.

Given that it was PiS that was known for threatening the independence of the legal system, and that Ziobro has made countless quotes in the past about how the legal system is there to serve the government, one rather thinks that you're getting confused.

Either way, it's academic. Kamiński is officially a criminal.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Nov 2015 #124
legal system is there to serve

The courts are meant to serve the nation, not PO politicians holding on for dear life to the feeding trough.
The pardon was extended against the wishes of Kamiński who wanted the appeal to run its course and still does. He hopes to get exonerated which amounts to a verdict of not guilty. A pardon suggests that some violation has been forgiven (pardoned).

on your father's knee

He couldn't have. His father was not the hardened Stalinist Kuroń who sovietised the Polish Scouting Association and brainwashed its impressionable young members with commie propaganda.
jon357 66 | 17,078
18 Nov 2015 #125
Given that it was PiS that was known for threatening the independence of the legal system, and that Ziobro has made countless quotes in the past about how the legal system is there to serve the government, one rather thinks that you're getting confused.

The legal system in Poland is compromised anyway, with 'experts' being employed and paid by the courts with only a veneer of neutrality. I doubt PiS would want to change that for a minute.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Nov 2015 #126
The legal system in Poland is compromised anyway

What do you expect after 8 years of PO misrule and abuses?!
jon357 66 | 17,078
18 Nov 2015 #127
Unfortunately the 8 years of stability and decency didn't change a system that the PiS clowns were perfectly happy to take advantage of in the past and are doubtless quivering with anticipation to abuse against their perceived enemies now.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Nov 2015 #128
8 years of

You meant thievery, scamming and oldboy rule!
jon357 66 | 17,078
18 Nov 2015 #129
Unfortunately, we've got at least a couple of years of that to come.
Harry
18 Nov 2015 #130
Kamiński is officially a criminal.

And a self-confessed criminal at that. He accepted his pardon and thus accepted his guilt.

He hopes to get exonerated which amounts to a verdict of not guilty.

Kaminski has already admitted his guilt. An innocent man cannot accept a pardon for a crime which he did not commit, only a man who knows he has committed a crime can accept a pardon for it.

A pardon suggests that some violation has been forgiven (pardoned).

No, a pardon means that a guilty man will not be punished any further.

PiS clowns were perfectly happy to take advantage of in the past and are doubtless quivering with anticipation to abuse against their perceived enemies now.

Fortunately now that Poland is in the EU such abuses can be taken care of at a higher level.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Nov 2015 #131
at least a couple of years

You really beleive the Platformers will be back in power to reintsate their scamming lifestyles within a coupla years, like they were after 2007? Of course, anything is possible in love, war and politics, but it doesn't seem likely!
dolnoslask
18 Nov 2015 #132
To be honest most people i have spoken to think that PO is now finished and will not be in power again. not sure who will take their place.

But I am in countryside, maybe city people feel differently.
Roger5 1 | 1,458
18 Nov 2015 #133
But I am in countryside, maybe city people feel differently.

The election was a case of PO losing rather than PiS winning. PO had lost steam - inevitable after a long run - and were seen to be flabby and uncaring. They'll be back alright. Whether that's good or bad, I leave to others to decide. I've long been completely cynical about politicians, although as a democrat I never fail to vote. PiS are institutionally dysfunctional. They'll fall apart as they always do.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Nov 2015 #134
maybe city people

City people on the take with a finger in the theivery and scamming pie regret the demise and yearn for the return of Lemingrad which will cover up all their abuses and "irregularities". But their numbers have dwindled. Contrary to Platformer propaganda, in the last election a majority of city-dwellers, uni graduates and young people voted for the United Right. The PO is still entrenched in some local councils in the boonies where hand-washes-hand politics prevail and local Platformer bosses still rule the roost. But the next council elections will hopefully change all that!
jon357 66 | 17,078
18 Nov 2015 #135
Roger5

I thinks that's actually a very good assessment.
Harry
18 Nov 2015 #136
City people on the take with a finger in the theivery and scamming pie regret the demise and yearn for the return of Lemingrad which will cover up all their abuses and "irregularities".

As opposed to the Glorious State led by Chairman Kaczynski where convicted criminals will simply be pardoned so that they can sit in the cabinet and other criminals will be allowed to bask behind immunity rather than answering for their crimes of defrauding the Polish taxpayer. No need to cover up anything when everything is done brazenly out in the open!
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
18 Nov 2015 #137
Good quote here.

"Ministers in the Law and Justice government can now do what they like, breaking the law, because ultimately there is always a former colleague from the party, namely President Andrzej Duda, who may decide to pardon them," Neumann claimed.

thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/229376,Polish-opposition-slams-presidents-pardoning-of-former-security-chief

This whole thing is a massive setback for democracy and transparency. It's now clearly obvious that it's "one law for them, one rule for everyone else".
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Nov 2015 #138
setback for democracy

Kaczyński today told the Sejm a thing or two about Platformerian democracy.
Komorowski sent his secret police to close down an anti-Komorowski website. Riot police wrested anti-Komorowski banners away from footie fans. And PiS rallies were not allowed to be held in public halls. That is the kind of Platformerian democracy that the current government plans to reform. Under the United Right government, special services and law-enforcement units will be used for what they were created: to weed out corruption and other abuses which thrived in the PO-dominated era.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
18 Nov 2015 #139
Kaczyński today told the Sejm a thing or two about Platformerian democracy.

That has nothing to do with PiS and crime.

Komorowski sent his secret police to close down an anti-Komorowski website.

It was made clear at the time that he had nothing to do with it, and he was actually quite angry at the secret services for doing so. However, it was also very clear that PO had nothing to do with it.

Riot police wrested anti-Komorowski banners away from footie fans.

Here you go again, pretending that football hooligans are ordinary fans.

And PiS rallies were not allowed to be held in public halls.

Any evidence of that?

Under the United Right government, special services and law-enforcement units will be used for what they were created: to weed out corruption and other abuses which thrived in the PO-dominated era.

In other words, they'll be used against the political opposition. And even if they completely overstep the mark, it doesn't matter because Duda will pardon them anyway.

Never fear. When PiS lose control of the government, some of them will be going to prison for a very, very long time.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Nov 2015 #140
Any evidence of that?

It made the rounds of the media. Not only PiS gatherings but assmblies of Catholic students and pro-life groups got turned down. Apparently someone had paid a visit to the uni rectors in advance and made them an offer they couldn't refuse. Like corrupt PO-serving judges, rectors also know what side their bread is buttered on.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
18 Nov 2015 #141
but assmblies of Catholic students and pro-life groups got turned down.

Happens all the time with controversial meetings on both sides of the political spectrum.

Apparently someone had paid a visit to the uni rectors in advance and made them an offer they couldn't refuse.

As I said, it goes on all the time. Behemoth had a concert cancelled by a university in Poznań in exactly the same way. Personally, I find it sad that anything is being cancelled, but Polish universities seem to embrace the mundane. What's worse is that students themselves are often leading the way when it comes to demanding censorship of anything that they don't agree with - and it goes both ways.

Sorry Polonius, but this has nothing to do with PiS and crime. The fact of the week is that Duda pardoned a criminal, Kamiński, and that criminal is now responsible for Poland's secret services.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Nov 2015 #142
PiS and crime

The minute you set up a "PO and crime thread", the problem will solve itself. The only problem is that such a trhead may turn out to be so voluminous that it'll clog up the works and the mods will have to close it down "for cleaning".
sick of PiS&PO
18 Nov 2015 #143
I, for one, am utterly exhausted by the PO and PiS debate. Both parties are mostly interested in serving their own constituencies and no one else.

If Poland wants to establish itself as a mature democracy, parties on both sides of the political divide need to stop amending the constitution and operating the judiciary as their own party political prosecution arm. Polonius, if you think that a government overriding the decision of an independent judiciary is good for Poland than you are no patriot. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

I find it utterly depressing that people like you believe PiS can do little wrong, while people like Delph and Harry think the same of PO. This political pairing and the poisonous relationship between the two groups has done Poland no end of harm over the past few years. Instead of genuinely improving the country both parties spend most of their time bending the country's constitutional arrangements in ways that benefit their party.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
18 Nov 2015 #144
The only problem is that such a trhead may turn out to be so voluminous that it'll clog up the works and the mods will have to close it down "for cleaning".

Forum's waiting for you, Polonius.

I find it utterly depressing that people like you believe PiS can do little wrong, while people like Delph and Harry think the same of PO.

To be honest, I've only voted for PO twice - and that was to remove Grobelny from power in Poznań. Apart from that, they're merely the lesser of two evils. Almost everyone was against Grobelny in the 2nd round last year, and even PiS refused to endorse him over the PO candidate.
Harry
18 Nov 2015 #145
to weed out corruption and other abuses which thrived in the PO-dominated era.

When are they planning to weed out that corrupt MP who flew to Poznan numerous times on weekends when he was teaching at a private university and then defrauded the Polish taxpayer by claiming the cost of those flights?

I wonder if Duda would just pardon himself if he was convicted of that fraud.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Nov 2015 #146
independent judiciary

Under PO it was far from independent but mainly served the Platformer Oldboy establishment.
I agree with you on the lack of stability in public life: 17 voviodships, then 49, now 16. Same with education: 4 + 8 had been the norm for years. Luckily Gierek got dumped because he was toying with a Soviet-style 10-year combined primary/secondary school. Then in the 1990s someone had the bright idea to introduce a gymnasium (junior secondary or middle school), now they want to do away with it. Somehow nobody thinks about the staggering waste of taxpayer money such reorganisations involve. Just the cost of new creating documents, rubber stamps, forms, labels, textbooks, roadsigns, etc. could be put to far better use.
sick of PiS&PO
18 Nov 2015 #147
So the judiciary wasn't independent under PO, and you're celebrating that it will continue to be interfered with under PiS?

Two wrongs won't make it right.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
18 Nov 2015 #148
interfered with under PiS

Not celebrating but hoping it will serve the Polish nation.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
18 Nov 2015 #149
I don't know where is best to post this, but this is exactly the kind of people that PiS consider to be appropriate legal representatives.

PiS appointed the new chairman of the Commission of Justice and Human Rights, Stanisław Piotrowicz.

Perhaps Mr Piotrowicz has a lot of experience, but this case from 15 years ago makes his presence in the Human Rights Commission surprising...

In November 2001, Stanislaw Piotrowicz, acting as a prosecutor in Krosno, discontinued the proceedings against a priest on suspicion of child molestation...

After complaining about the decision to halt prosecution, the prosecutor in Jaslo took over the case. Three years later, the 65-year-old priest was sentenced to two years in prison for molesting six girls. The Court confirmed that the priest put his hands under the shirt of girls and touched their breasts, put his hands into their underwear and touched their crotch, kissed them and inserted a finger into the vagina.

wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114871,19209412,nowy-szef-sejmowej-komisji-praw-czlowieka-bronil-ksiedza-ktory.html?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=SM&utm_campaign=FB_Gazeta

It gets worse, however.

Piotrowicz has been a prosecutor for years. In 2013, Thomas Sekielski in his program "po prostu" on TVP revealed that in the 1980's, Piotrowicz, who was then a member of the PZPR, was the author of an indictment against Anthony Pikula, who was a dissident accused of distributing samizdat publications. In 1984 Piotrowicz was even awarded the Bronze Cross of Merit.

In short : PiS feel that it's appropriate for a Communist prosecutor to be leading a commision dealing with Justice and Human Rights.

You can't make this stuff up :D
jon357 66 | 17,078
18 Nov 2015 #150
And we will be seeing much more of this type of scandal over the next couple of years.


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