Poland Parliament elections in October 2011

can you somehow back it up with some quote from Kaczyński :) -

as far as I can understand all Kaczyński asked Mr Sobieniowski was if he (Sobieniowski) works for a Polish or German medium - what you write is actually twisting the words of Kaczyński - nothing actually surprising from a notorious Kaczyński basher - btw the TVN material is equally if not more manipulative than your post

Why would he ask that question when he perfectly understands he works for Polish tv? There is no twisting going on, this is all based on the quotes that have come from his book, and his interview with Newsweek (they use his very own words).

The problem with Kaczynski is that he is such a pathological liar that he can't string together a whole sentence without contradicting himself. He should now have the courage of telling the Polish public exactly what he meant, and what his sources were. I can't believe how this stupid cretin Kaczynski, is once again jeopardising Poland's budget negotiations by coming up what is all probability are unsubstantiated lies about Poland biggest economic partner. Of course he will never explain himself because as we have found out in this campaign he is COWARD, who avoids public scrutiny and debate at every opportunity.

I wish that the majority of Poles would wake up to Kaczynski's lies. The man has a track record of deceit in this campaign, and unfortunately the media is letting him off far to lightly. How many court processes has he lost in this campaign so far?

only 5 more days:).

I hope Kaczynski will disappear from the Polish politics for good, but I doubt he will. Even though he is not the Polish patriot as he claims to be, he is a power hungry arrogant politician with a chip on his shoulder who pretends to care for Polish people and strangely enough there is a a big enough group who believes in his lies. Or, there is a big enough group, who has similar personal characteristics to Kaczynski. IMO he represents a large group of frustrated people, who haven't had their share of success in Poland and there is a thin chance they will. Unfortunately, there is a large group of those people, so in the end if Kaczynski was not representing them, someone else would. Simple.

What amazes me in Poland is the fact that some people believe that politicians will change their life instead of taking the initiative in their own hands. I see a generation of young people who demands having a well paying job because they are "educated", while lacking many skills when on the job.

The truth is that politicians rarely care for the country and the young generation of them are there to get in power and get connections, not to work hard in order to succeed.

A very good summary, and I suppose as you put it 'someone else would", but why does he have to be so odious! The man is just beyond parody. If Kaczynski can be PM, well then anybody can be. What do people see in him he has 0 talent, is not telegenic, has a track record of the most incredible dishonesty, and he comes across as very unsympathetic and aggressive.


Cannot come soon enough! I can't wait till this man is thrown into the rubbish bin of history.

because he is a pure reflection of his voters. As painful as this observation may be, it's close to reality based on my observations. I am talking about people who are as odious as him, possessing as much talent as him, are as telegenic as him, are as dishonest as him and come across as unsympathetic and aggressive as him:D.


lets hope so. I will try my best to vote him out this coming Sunday- however, that might not be enough;(

you must be living in some different world, seems to me - parallel universes?


well. it may not happen very soon, unless he simply passes

But - this actually reflects much of his electorate.

Ignoring the ones like gumishu (who are voting for what he offers, not his personality/soundbites) - many of them are very angry at life, they feel like they were cheated in 1989 (cheated of what, I don't know - I don't recall the Round Table negotiations ever offering them anything) - and his "battle talk" often appeals to the older generation who simply can't accept that the enemy has gone. Then you get the younger generation, which again - is angry because they didn't take advantage of what is on offer. Look at the football hooligans - they *only* support PiS because Kaczynski supported them. If Kaczynski and PiS wins - they're going to hate his guts as much as they hate Tusk right now, simply because there's no way Kaczynski is going to make himself look bad in Euro 2012.

Then you get the underclass of Polish society which still behaves like it's communism. They let their dogs **** on the grass, they think stealing from work is OK, etc - again - they are naturally drawn to PiS because they reflect the "old days" - though they'll never admit it. It's actually fair to say that under communism, their life probably was better - they had the flat, they had subsidies, they had a job (albeit pointless and menial). That's what PiS pretend to offer.

I wish I could remember the quote, but I read a book a while ago which made the point that as soon as the common enemy had gone, Poland essentially started fighting with herself. For the first time - well - ever - Poland doesn't have any enemies - so the enemy became herself.

I said it before in this thread - but they simply are too naive to realise who is actually behind PiS. It's not the underclass of society - it's the educated ones. Look at the electoral lists - they're all middle class professionals. Where are the genuine workers on their lists?

You don't understand what's going on. Kaczyński wants a good result in the elections but he doesn't want to be PM, at least not this year. Tusk screwed up things so much that drastic cuts and more tax raises are a must or we will become the 2nd Greece before the end of next year. All the stuff about green island or bullshits from Icek Rostowski about low deficit are total lies. Tusk screwed things up, Tusk must stay and sort it out, let him win the next elections, in no more than 2 years people will flush him down the closet, that's where he belongs.

Please do, and try to persuade as many people as possible.


Sadly I think that you are right, I guess that's what it comes down to.

You do realise that there's enough wasted on typical PiS voters to cut billions from the budget?

Slash a few pensions, cut a few subsidies to State owned businesses, sell the rest off - voila, budget problems solved. PO won't upset their voters, the SLD/PSL/Palikot couldn't care less about a few moustaches/old people - and everyone is happy, except those that would vote PiS anyway.

Amazing how you lot have conceded defeat already, though. Anyway - since when does Kaczynski not want to win? The man is desperate for political power - or haven't you listened to all his speeches about how they will win?

Well I hope that this political war is somewhat lessened in the next parliament.

hmm - have you heard that public help to even state companies is targeted by the EU - see the shipyards - are you serious thinking that KGHM or coal industry are somehow financed by the public - I am under impression it's exactly the other way round - PO government was very keen to pay itself a hefty dividend from KGHM for example


what do you mean actually - what is that Kaczyński offers that makes me vote for him according to you?


the underclass of the Polish society you are talking about don't even bother to vote (that's why we have like 50 per cent turnout) and it's already years since it started like this


workers are labouring simple as that - you are just another PiS hater simple as that - you go out of your way to bad mouth and discredit it - well it is your choice - what good can you achieve by that - I don't know? - beyond my grasp

x


His policies/manifesto, surely?

I can't imagine you're voting for the soundbites and the battle talk, are you?

ah, ok I now get it :) you got me angry for a moment

Haha, no worries :)

I've noticed though - educated PiS voters tend to be very clued up about exactly what Kaczynski offers. It's why, I think, if he stopped with the ridiculous rhetoric, stopped pandering to fringe lunatics and simply kept on repeating their policies, PiS would actually win the most votes in this election - because - from a Polish perspective, it's very likable.

A very funny clip of a granny telling people to get out and vote(:

I think the newest PO vid clip is below the belt. It is one thing to be promoting your own party, but to try to frighten people about how PiS might win because a lot of fanatical people are going to vote for them, it unfair. They had that clip that had different PiS supporters being rude or aggresive [usually to the mainstream media who they know is anti PiS]. To be honest thought PiS could have done a similar video with anti PiS people being aggresive and singing songs that make fun of PiS and even the Catholic Church. I also find it interesting how one day they say that PO has a 5% advantage in the media, then a day later they say it is PO 32% and PiS %21 or something. They try to mislead. If someone is unsure but was considering voting for PiS and they see that percentage, they might think there use voting for PiS since it is not going to make a difference anyway. Not only that but I doubt it is accurate, I mean how many peeps do you think they ask to get the results?

I think it's an attempt to muddle the picture so that serious electoral fraud can be implemented - there was an article on the software system that does the counting - it looks like it's the same small company every time though they have already caused major trouble to the election process.

this is just one possible way to manipulate the election - fraud can however as simple as that.

Are you accusing National Election Committee of intent to commit fraud?

Why would electoral fraud need to be committed in the first place? It's not like PiS have any chance of putting together a majority to govern.

It's like Smolensk - why would anyone need to bother when PiS are doing a great job of alienating other parties anyway? You don't need to commit electoral fraud to keep them at 30% forevermore.


Below the belt? There's no such thing as that in Polish politics. If you think that's below the belt, then you must also criticise much of what comes out of PiS, and you must especially criticise much of what's said in their name. What is it to be?

(anyway, it's only below the belt because it's true)


It's not unfair - it's a fair reminder that those people WILL vote for PiS and that people need to get out and vote against them.


No, they had the supporters being rude and aggressive towards ordinary people. Incidentally, you don't see PO supporters being physically violent or getting upset by Gazeta Polska et al.


Why? Those people don't vote for PO - they'd be targetting a small minority that tends to vote for extreme left wing parties anyway.


They ask 1,000 people. Just like in the UK, and most countries.

If someone is influenced by an opinion poll, they shouldn't be allowed to vote anyway.

yes I am - PKW has recently proven its malevolence - see casus KNP Kongres Nowej Prawicy and in the case of Marek Król and Joanna Kalata Senate candidates

To be fair, isn't it both in PO and in PiS's interest to keep Korwin Mikke's crowd out?

Do you think it was malevolence? Or some sort of bureaucratic smokescreen? I have no patience to sort through all the election rules but the following answer satisfies me. When you deal with bureaucracy play by their rule. Could not he deliver the damn application by person, or better yet a week before?

then read about Marek Król - and no it's not the full story AFAIK what Mr Jaworski says -

It is really low of you to presume such things. Are PiS and you preparing an excuse for the lost elections? :):):):)

no only me - PiS don't know a thing yet :P

But that will be a typical reaction of PiS leaders if they lose. Someone has to be blamed, that is Kaczyński`s way of dealing with failures.

Didn't he already accuse people of stealing the election from him?

I'm just waiting for the inevitable face-change of many PiS types after they finally get sick of losing and decide that the hardliners must go, along with the pandering to hooligans/mohairowe/etc

I am not falling for reading your obviously biased sources. Yes, I saw gazillion links all over the Polish internet related to the candidacy of "poor" Anna Kalata and Marek Król. I do not know their stories and - frankly - I do not really care to know them. They possibly cheated, they possibly followed the old "Martwe Dusze" (Gogol: Dead Souls) or "Dzień Szakala" (Frederick Forsyth: The Day of the Jackal) pattern, generally - they did not follow the rules. The fact is, in both cases the PKW rejected 500-600 names from their lists. This looks very fishy to me, bordering on criminal. And I am not talking about PKW.

I know that collecting 2000 supporting names is not easy - especially if you are notified at the last minute by some election committee, such as "Unia Prezydentów - Obywatele do Senatu", that your candidacy has been accepted and blessed by the other presidents, and that of all support you are going to get is just a photograph of a smiling Dutkiewicz, and that you just have two weeks to collect 2000 names. But as I said - whatever, they both failed.

But let me stick to reality. I went on PKW site and actually downloaded the entire list of 501 candidates to the Senate. Of these - 382 candidates come from the major and minor political parties, while 117 names are registered under the committee type: "wyborczy". Of these - 31 ones are from "Komitet Wyborczy Wyborców Unia Prezydentów - Obywatele do Senatu ", 7 - from "Komitet Wyborczy Wyborców Rafał Dutkiewicz" and the rest - from very small fish and individuals. How come farmers, such as Wiertek, Domian, Balazs or Olech managed to get 2000 legal, unquestioned, votes on time? Two nurses, one clerk, 8 teachers, 2 academic teachers, 9 engineers, and so for - they all could do it, but Anna Kalata could not? Oh, I know - they are obstinate, they have it in for Kalata!

I simply do not buy the accusation of an election fraud being committed by PKW - the democratically elected central electoral institution. This is a serious accusation, gumishu. If you really believe this, which is - in my opinion - one more conspiracy theory invented by sick minds, than there is no hope for you and for Poland.

PS: I am leaving soon to pay my respect to a family in sorrow. I won't have much time for internet chatting tonight.

I hear all the time here from you and other very tolerant PO supporters that "PiS supporters" are: idiots, jobless, fanatics and generally the worst plebs... all the time "PiS supporters" but they are not some mythical monster but real people, millions of them, If you lived in Poland you would work with them, live next to them and so on... you don't live in Poland but quite a few "PiS supporters" are here on this forum, so which are idiots ? Which are fanatics ? Tell us please.


Fascinating. Explain please.


Why should they have "workers" on their lists ?


Yes, I'm sure they will be delighted by next VAT rise, freeze of pay of teachers', policemen, soldiers' etc.


I'm 100 light years to the right from average PO voter regarding economy, so "center left" guy doesn't have to teach me such things. The problem is that PO is unable to produce any sensful reform of public finances, as that require more than PR tricks... so most probably PO way will look like this:

1. rise again VAT.
2. cancel some orders on military equipment, which will make bankrupt several promising comapnies in this sector and only delay necessary spendings.
3. sell shares of KGHM, Orlen, PKO BP, PGNiG for 15-20% of their real value.
4. steal more money from OFE...
...and a few other similarly "brilliant" decisions.


At least since the last Presidential elections. Actually, no one really want to win these elections that much... I won't be surprised If there will be big problems to set up any coalition...


I would like to see your posts If ad of PiS would be showing criminals supporting PO...


Maybe... then what ?