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Poland Parliament elections in October 2011


pawian 159 | 9,515
13 Jun 2011  #1
Despite rising prices, unemployment, lay-offs, problems with making ends meet, the ruling party, PO, is still ahead of others. Excellent result. I hope they will keep it till election time.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
13 Jun 2011  #2
Ah, layoffs, how did that word mysteriously appear? I mentioned it in the debt thread by milky earlier.

I see you are a fan of rising prices, bankrupting Poland for Jewish compensation, giving land to rich Arabs, rising unemployment and a host of other crippling measures, pawian. Well done, the Poles have really spoken this time ;) ;)
BritinPoland 6 | 121
13 Jun 2011  #3
What do you consider to be the reason they are ahead in the Poles' polls?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
13 Jun 2011  #4
Despite rising prices, unemployment, lay-offs, problems with making ends meet, the ruling party, PO, is still ahead of others.

Sheer incompetence by PiS is to explain that - it seems to me that they've had so many chances to oppose PO, but chose to bring up issues like Smolensk rather than really getting PO where it hurts. Tusk et al must be laughing their heads off - they can do no wrong, and even when their ratings slide, the SLD, not PiS pick up the votes.

With PJN seemingly falling apart and Palikot going nowhere, PO have more or less a clear run.
BritinPoland 6 | 121
13 Jun 2011  #5
Seanus, it says here that the Polish government has postponed paying restitution to Jewish groups who had their land stolen under Communism

I don't know the ins and the outs but I would've thought repaying people for the property or land they lost is the decent thing to do? Why is there a problem with that?
teflcat 5 | 1,032
13 Jun 2011  #6
I don't vote for any party in Poland; I vote against others. That's a pretty depressing situation, I know, but there it is. I'm not a fan of PO but I'll vote for them to keep PiS out. I suspect - no - I know that many people do and will do the same.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
13 Jun 2011  #7
It's the lesser of two evils for many Poles. I ask them and this is the distinct impression I get. I personally think a fair part of Poland fits the socialist model but it carries a bad rap and so falls by the wayside.
BritinPoland 6 | 121
13 Jun 2011  #8
I'm not a fan of PO but I'll vote for them to keep PiS out.

I'm an outsider so asking genuinely - what is it motivating you to keep PiS out? What repels you?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
13 Jun 2011  #9
I don't know the ins and the outs but I would've thought repaying people for the property or land they lost is the decent thing to do? Why is there a problem with that?

The problem is that this shady Jewish group (who, by no means, represent Jews as a whole) is demanding compensation for land that wasn't even theirs - but rather wanting money "on behalf of them".

I'm an outsider so asking genuinely - what is it motivating you to keep PiS out? What repels you?

The racism, the homophobia, the socialism, the xenophobia, the list goes on. They had their chance, and blew it with petty witchhunts and so on instead of actually governing. Most foreigners in this country are quite, quite happy for Poland to be a regional leader, rather than being laughed at by the world.

I don't vote for any party in Poland; I vote against others. That's a pretty depressing situation, I know, but there it is. I'm not a fan of PO but I'll vote for them to keep PiS out. I suspect - no - I know that many people do and will do the same.

I had the fortunate situation in Poznan in the local elections of being able to vote freely, rather than for PO to simply keep PiS out.

But it's true in general - I know a fair few people who voted for Komorowski because he wasn't Kaczynski, rather than for the man.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
13 Jun 2011  #10
BritinP, it's too politically sensitive and will give rise to spurious claims. PO don't have that money to burn. Postponed, maybe. However, it's in the pipeline. Fine, have principles but most ministers in the Sejm deny its practical viability, as do I.
poland_
13 Jun 2011  #11
that word mysteriously appea

Seanus, here is my spin. Po will form a coalition with SLD, they will release information in the beginning of Jan 2012 ( after EU presidency) informing peeps of the need for austerity measures, in order to reduce the deficit.

"Ronald Lauder dismissed claims that by the Polish government it had to postpone plans to introduce compensation legislation owing to austerity measures Arguing that the Polish economy was one of the strongest in Europe, Mr Lauder said “it is unacceptable that Poland cannot find some way to meet its responsibilities to former landowners.”

Ronald Lauder et al, will be played by the Polish Gov, just like the World Jewish Congres/Zionists have played all and sundry.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
13 Jun 2011  #12
Seanus, here is my spin. Po will form a coalition with SLD, they will release information in the beginning of Jan 2013 ( after EU presidency) informing peeps of the need for austerity measures, in order to reduce the deficit.

I think the most important, and most interesting battle of the election isn't between PO and PiS, but rather between PiS and the PSL.

But yes, almost certainly at the start of 2012, we're going to see some pretty hefty cuts.
BritinPoland 6 | 121
13 Jun 2011  #13
DD/Seanus,
This Jewish group has apparently even met the Pope and are all over the web, apparently with a history dating back to 1936. Although personally I'd never heard of 'em before.

Seem legit to me, even the Pope met 'em. ejpress.org/article/47779

So PiS is against this Jewish group and their compensation claim (but not Jews in general) I take it?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
13 Jun 2011  #14
So PiS is against this Jewish group and their compensation claim (but not Jews in general) I take it?

PiS in general are the party of anti-semitic idiots who see Jewish conspiracy theories everywhere. Funny thing is, the former President had great personal relations with the Jewish community - but sadly, his brother has chosen to embrace the far-right lunatics rather than clearly reject them.

But pretty much every party is against this Jewish group - I don't think any party actually supports giving them cash. The Polish public are dead against it.
teflcat 5 | 1,032
13 Jun 2011  #15
I'm an outsider so asking genuinely - what is it motivating you to keep PiS out? What repels you?

Delphi pretty much summed up why I dislike and fear PiS, except for the bit about socialism. I have always been a socialist. I believe in socialised health care, roads, education, emergency services, etc. I'm off to bed now so I can't get into defending socialism (whatever you might take it to mean) but I'll check out the thread tomorrow.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
13 Jun 2011  #16
Seems legit? Based on what, might I ask? Ask yourself this, why are they asking for their property now? Have a think about that for a moment. PO will get whacked if they meddle with this before the election. Warsz, I think you may be right. Marek Belka will likely sign away part of Poland to the IMF's deviously hatched plans and opaque glasses will turn transparent. Well, maybe translucent ;) ;)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
13 Jun 2011  #17
Delphi pretty much summed up why I dislike and fear PiS, except for the bit about socialism. I have always been a socialist. I believe in socialised health care, roads, education, emergency services, etc. I'm off to bed now so I can't get into defending socialism (whatever you might take it to mean) but I'll check out the thread tomorrow.

Worth pointing out though, that the PiS model is socialist in terms of being Communist, rather than the social democratic view of the SLD. It's actually amusing how far to the left PiS are when it comes to welfare and suchlike - they'll never admit it, of course.
OP pawian 159 | 9,515
13 Jun 2011  #18
I'm not a fan of PO but I'll vote for them to keep PiS out. I suspect - no - I know that many people do and will do the same.

I like your attitude. :):):)

That is the way to go:

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in Poland, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our country, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender,
poland_
13 Jun 2011  #19
But yes, almost certainly at the start of 2012, we're going to see some pretty hefty cuts.

I would think, they have to in order to receive/justify more further EU grants from 2013 onwards.

So PiS is against this Jewish group and their compensation claim (but not Jews in general) I take it?

It would be deemed unacceptable for any party to suggest, they are against the retribution claims, once the government starts paying out, there will be a wave of claims, not only from Jewish survivors, also from Poles, Germans. It is avery sensitive subject in PL.
OP pawian 159 | 9,515
13 Jun 2011  #20
Ah, layoffs, how did that word mysteriously appear? I mentioned it in the debt thread by milky earlier.

Hmm, I didn`t read that thread at all. My spare time is limited. :):):)

I see you are a fan of rising prices, bankrupting Poland for Jewish compensation, giving land to rich Arabs, rising unemployment and a host of other crippling measures, pawian. Well done, the Poles have really spoken this time ;) ;)

Have you just fallen out with your wife or what? :):):)
BritinPoland 6 | 121
13 Jun 2011  #21
DD, thanks. Yes I keep hearing vague stuff like that about PiS from some Polish people in the UK, but when I asked some other Polish people here in Poland they said there was a smear campaign against PiS in the press. And as you say, one of the twins or brothers was friendly with jewish folk.

I really am confused about where the truth really lies, there's lots of spin in the UK press too, so you can find it incredibly hard to get to the truth of it all there too.

Teflcat, I will sit on the fence a bit there, not sure after the New Labour IMO mess. Now I see the Tories are wimps and the BoE governor is now a Sir, so they all seem the same cr*p to me.

Seanus, I think the Telegraph says it's been going on for 20 years with that group, not just suddenly
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
13 Jun 2011  #22
I would think, they have to in order to get justify more EU grants from 2013 onwards.

I think it's been the plan all along - get the outright majority, then (in conjunction with either the PSL or SLD) launch some very savage cuts targeted at "Solidarity" industries. I suspect that things such as the Ciegelski problem will be solved once and for all.

My prediction is that we're going to see some very epic strikes taking place in 2012/2013.

DD, thanks. Yes I keep hearing vague stuff like that about PiS from some Polish people in the UK, but when I asked some other Polish people here in Poland they said there was a smear campaign against PiS in the press. And as you say, one of the twins or brothers was friendly with jewish folk.

The stuff about a smear campaign is nonsense - what the truth is that Polish journalism is bitterly divided along Party lines, just like the UK. But if you look at PiS' actual record when in Parliament - it has been characterised by petty personal politics and grudges rather than concrete action. They were rather diabolical when in power, and have been awful in opposition.

As a party, they're all mouth and precious little action (except when it comes to abusing power - such as using the security forces to spy on opposition journalists).
poland_
13 Jun 2011  #23
My prediction is that we're going to see some very epic strikes taking place in 2012/2013.

They do like a good demonstration in PL.
OP pawian 159 | 9,515
13 Jun 2011  #24
My prediction is that we're going to see some very epic strikes taking place in 2012/2013.

I realise it and am ready.

but when I asked some other Polish people here in Poland they said there was a smear campaign against PiS in the press.

Press is free in Poland, don`t forget it. We are not Belarus.

They were rather diabolical when in power, and have been awful in opposition.

Exactly. The beastie boys (no capital letters on purpose) .
BritinPoland 6 | 121
13 Jun 2011  #25
Thanks DD, certainly I have come across disturbing reports just now when I googled re the homophobia. Again I do not know enough about things here to say anything worth reading, but I am very much against homophobia and very much against racism or anti-Semitism etc. On the other hand, UK mainstream politics is full of quiet t*ssers anyway that I wouldn't trust further than I could throw, I am fed up with the lot whether Labour, Tory, LibDem, PO or PiS etc. They all talk and nothing good gets done.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,626
13 Jun 2011  #26
They all talk and nothing good gets done.

Generally speaking, the current Polish government has kept things going peacefully. They haven't gone as far as many people want them to go (such as slashing miners salaries and closing unprofitable State-owned enterprises), but on the whole, they're doing an OK job. Nothing spectacular or showy, but generally OK.

(they have failed massively in some respects, but the other options are just too scary to think about)
BritinPoland 6 | 121
13 Jun 2011  #27
Press is free in Poland, don`t forget it. We are not Belarus.

You are genuinely or ironically stating the newspapers here do not lie or spin in favour of one party over the other? Seriously? :o) In the UK, much of the Press has party bias, that is well-known, and I would not put it past any UK papers to tell porkies (porky pies, slang for lies) to favour who they back.

...edited to add...

Generally speaking, the current Polish government has kept things going peacefully. They haven't gone as far as many people want them to go (such as slashing miners salaries and closing unprofitable State-owned enterprises), but on the whole, they're doing an OK job. Nothing spectacular or showy, but generally OK.

(they have failed massively in some respects, but the other options are just too scary to think about)

Some Poles say to me (particularly older ones) in not very good English so maybe I misunderstand them, but they say stuff like PO are too chummy with Russia and the EU and selling Poland's assets for a song, and too matey with Putin etc etc etc. What's the truth? I don't know, obviously. I just smile and shrug when they say that.
OP pawian 159 | 9,515
13 Jun 2011  #28
You are genuinely or ironically stating the newspapers here do not lie or spin in favour of one party over the other? Seriously? :o) In the UK, much of the Press has party bias, that is well-known, and I would not put it past any UK papers to tell porkies (porky pies, slang for lies) to favour who they back.

Major papers and magazines are against PiS and critical about PO.

What's the truth? I don't know, obviously. I just smile and shrug when they say that.

It is a positive reaction of yours. :):):)
PiS, when in power, went to a diplomatic war with Russia and what were the results? Deplorable.
poland_
13 Jun 2011  #29
Generally speaking, the current Polish government has kept things going peacefully.

I have noticed a stream of articles slowly being released about personal debt in PL, here is another one from today: warsawvoice.pl/WVpage/pages/article.php/16998/news, this has been happening in the Polish and English speaking press in PL over the last 60 days.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
13 Jun 2011  #30
Pawian, not at all. I'm just surprised you can vote for a party that is pricing out many of its people.

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