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How do Poles feel about the outcome of Germany's elections?


Wlodzimierz 4 | 544
23 Sep 2013  #1
I'm merely curious as to the Poles' reactions to the outcome of yesterday's elections in Germany. Do most people in Poland approve or disapprove of Ms. Merkel?

Feel free to respond in either Polish or English:-)

English only please :)
Monitor 14 | 1,821
23 Sep 2013  #2
In national news they said that we are happy, because with Merkel relations Germany - Poland are the best in history.
Astoria - | 155
24 Sep 2013  #3
Merkel is the most popular foreign politician in Poland. 75% of Poles trust her. It doesn't hurt her image that she's of Polish descent and has distant relatives in Poland.
OP Wlodzimierz 4 | 544
24 Sep 2013  #4
Many Germans with whom I've spoken express the desire that Merkel reach out further to Poland and treat her more as an equal trading partner than was the case under previous chancellors.
Astoria - | 155
24 Sep 2013  #5
It's already the case. One fourth of Polish exports go to Germany, making Germany Poland's biggest export market. Poland, though only Germany's tenth market, is still bigger than Russia, and growing fast.
OP Wlodzimierz 4 | 544
24 Sep 2013  #6
Based on what I read as of today in the Polish press, the outcome is generally perceived as overwhelmingly positive , Greece and southern Europe notwithstanding:-)
Astoria - | 155
25 Sep 2013  #7
I think there is a strong consensus in Germany that good German-Polish political and economic relations are in the best interest of Germany, and so for Poland it doesn't matter which German party is in power. Good Polish-German relations can only be spoiled by PiS coming to power in Poland.
OP Wlodzimierz 4 | 544
25 Sep 2013  #8
Thus far, Tusk and Merkel appear to have at least a professional (if not overly "cordial") working relationship. Curious on the presidential level about the relationship between Komorowski and Gauck!
Bieganski 17 | 901
25 Sep 2013  #9
Lech Wałęsa is so pleased that he is advocating for a unification with Germany:

Fury in Poland as former leader Lech Walesa says the country should unite with Germany to 'expand economic and defence cooperation'

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2430763/Lech-Walesa-says-Poland-join-Germany-expand-economic-defence-cooperation.html

- Ex-Polish president demanded eroding borders between European states

- Claimed the old borders no longer mattered and globalisation is 'on horizon'

- Said Poland and Germany could unite as latter had admitted its war crimes

He for one is obviously in awe of Germany after years of Merkel's stewardship.

Has he become a crypto-Prussian perhaps?
Astoria - | 155
25 Sep 2013  #10
Gluck was a vocal supporter of Solidarity and is much respected in Poland. This video from Przystanek Woodstock music festival in 2012 shows his popularity:

owsiaknet.pl/video/69234995
legend 3 | 664
25 Sep 2013  #11
When will Germany stop being Americas lil *****?
TheOther 5 | 3,761
25 Sep 2013  #12
...old borders no longer mattered

Think about it: in the day and age of Schengen and global markets, do borders really matter? A unification with Germany doesn't make sense, of course, although I would love to see the reaction of the Brits and French if that would happen.
Meathead 5 | 470
25 Sep 2013  #13
Lech Wałęsa is so pleased that he is advocating for a unification with Germany:

Uhm, let's see. Poland is swallowed up for 300 years by Austria, Russia and Germany and now, approximately after 25 years of getting it's freedom, proposes a union with Germany. Typical Polish reasoning.
legend 3 | 664
25 Sep 2013  #14
- Ex-Polish president demanded eroding borders between European states

- Claimed the old borders no longer mattered and globalisation is 'on horizon'

- Said Poland and Germany could unite as latter had admitted its war crimes

This cant be for real.

Sorry but my grandparents fought hard against the Germans and Russians.
Today they (Germans and Russians) are good people but to ****** hell with merging with them.

Thats sickening.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
25 Sep 2013  #15
This cant be for real.

Don't expect too much out from the simple electrician.
Bieganski 17 | 901
25 Sep 2013  #16
This cant be for real.

Many news outlets have covered Wałęsa's remarks. Sure people can dismiss him as being an old aged crank at this point. However, it seems there is more at play here.

Wałęsa's early life and much of his adulthood was spent in or near lands once considered part of Prussia. And there can be no denying that while borders, flags and even languages may change over time local attitudes and historical memories still live on generation after generation.

Additionally, I shared a report just a few days ago about how Germany permitted the German minority in Silesia to vote in the German federal elections this past weekend.

So when you consider Danziger Wałęsa's call to remove the border with Germany being made right after Silesians voted in German elections you can definitely see a pincer movement being made to reconstitute the old Prussian territory. Just look at any historical map of the old German kingdom and this becomes clear:

Prussia and Poland
Harry
25 Sep 2013  #17
Danziger Wałęsa

Why am I not surprised that your utter ignorance of things Polish extends to Polish politicians? Walesa is many things but he most certainly isn't a Danziger.

Do most people in Poland approve or disapprove of Ms. Merkel?

The ones I know generally approve of her but don't approve of her stance with regard to giving money to Greece.

Right, and all that time he lived and worked in Gdansk had zero influence on him.

Living and/or working in Gdansk does not make somebody a 'Danziger'. I'd be astounded if Walesa ever even went to Danzig.
Although I note that you consider living and working in a place for years makes somebody of that place. I assume that you also now wish to say that I am Polish, don't you.

Anyway, I'm still waiting on that video

You got the photo proving I live in Poland and have a Polish bank account. Now we are waiting for the video you're going to shoot of your parent's basement in Canada.
Bieganski 17 | 901
25 Sep 2013  #18
Living and/or working in Gdansk does not make somebody a 'Danziger'. I'd be astounded if Walesa ever even went to Danzig.

Why am I not surprised you foolishly think Danzig is something distinct from Gdansk?

Although I note that you consider living and working in a place for years makes somebody of that place. I assume that you also now wish to say that I am Polish, don't you.

In your case no, it doesn't apply.

You got the photo proving I live in Poland and have a Polish bank account.

Blurry and cropped photos of still images of till receipts are not proof of assimilation.
Harry
25 Sep 2013  #19
you foolishly think Danzig is something distinct from Gdansk?

Danzig no longer exists; Gdansk does exist. But I guess one may need to actually go to Gdansk in order to see that it is not what Danzig was. And of course your ignorance is so profound that you apparently don't know that Walesa isn't even from Gdansk.

I wonder why some people are trying to make out that Walesa is in some way 'German' now that he has made this proposal.

In your case no, it doesn't apply.

Interesting. I was younger when I moved to Poland than Walesa was when he moved to Gdansk. Let me guess: the 'living in a place makes you from that place' rule also doesn't apply to the generations of Jews who lived in Poland for centuries but are still considered by your ilk to not be Polish.

Blurry and cropped photos of still images of till receipts are not proof of assimilation.

Do feel very welcome to quote a post in which I say that I've been assimilated by Poland. BTW, can't wait for that basement video!
Monitor 14 | 1,821
25 Sep 2013  #20
Danzig no longer exists; Gdansk does exist.

That's not true. Danzig is simply German name of Gdańsk. It describes the same city. It's still used in German language, same as Slavic version is still used in Polish and English.

Like many other Central European cities, Gdańsk has had many different names throughout its history. The name of a settlement was recorded after St. Adalbert's death in AD 997 as urbs Gyddanyzc[3] and later was written as Kdanzk in 1148, Gdanzc in 1188, Danceke[4] in 1228, Gdansk in 1236,[5] Danzc in 1263, Danczk in 1311,[6] Danczik in 1399,[3][7] Danczig in 1414, and Gdąnsk in 1636.

Palivec - | 380
25 Sep 2013  #21
Technically they are the the same, but with a complete population exchange the character of a city also changes completely. Traditions get lost, names get lost, stories get lost, connections get lost... Polish Gdańsk and German Danzig are something completely different.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
25 Sep 2013  #22
Polish Gdańsk and German Danzig are something completely different.

Polish Danzig and German Gdańsk are something completely different. I don't deny it.
OP Wlodzimierz 4 | 544
25 Sep 2013  #23
Herr Guenter Grass was born in at-that-time Danzig, GERMANY, considers himself (and is logically enough considered by everybody else!!) a GERMAN, not a Pole, though technically his mother was a full-German, his father a Kaszub ^^ The fact that Danzig is today known throughout Europe, furthermore is listed in all atlases, as Gdansk, resp. GdaŃsk, alters nothing about what I just stated.
Bieganski 17 | 901
26 Sep 2013  #24
Danzig no longer exists; Gdansk does exist. But I guess one may need to actually go to Gdansk in order to see that it is not what Danzig was. And of course your ignorance is so profound that you apparently don't know that Walesa isn't even from Gdansk.

As others have already pointed out to you Danzig was and still is the German name for Gdansk. I'm not surprised at all that this has to be explained to you. You obviously don't know this either but all cities evolve over time yet more often than not they retain much of their original character. Their histories are rarely if ever forgotten.

Despite centuries of war and partitions different regions in Poland still retain their own unique local flavor and Gdansk is not an exception to this. Land acquisitions and population transfer don't completely erase a city's or region's past and this is why the past always continues to influence the present. If you weren't so homebound and spent less time satiating your internet addiction you could discover this for yourself.

And I never said Wałęsa was originally from Gdansk either. I did point out before that he grew up in a region of Poland close to former areas once belonging to Prussia. It doesn't matter where he grew up anyway because his name is now virtually synonymous with Gdansk. All that time he lived and worked in Gdansk during his adult years would have made as much of an impression on him as he did on the city's history. Gdansk could rightly regard Wałęsa as an adopted son of its own. And so to whistle Wałęsa's own tune about uniting with Germany then there is nothing misplaced about calling him a Danziger.

I wonder why some people are trying to make out that Walesa is in some way 'German' now that he has made this proposal.

Wałęsa is the one who wants Poland to merge with Germany. His call for unification at first seemed to come out of the blue. But when taken in context that he chose to express his views right at the time of this year's German federal elections (in which some Silesians participated in) then it just no longer looked sudden or even coincidental. I already outlined a possible Prussian romanticism for Wałęsa's motive. This could very well be something he acquired earlier in life but always kept to himself.

Whatever his reasons he is now in his sunset years so he couldn't care less at this point of the actual consequences that would result from such a unification. It would be everyone else though who would have to suffer the fallout (i.e., erosion of language, culture, identity, etc.) and I don't see the Germans as the ones who would be being willing to become Polonized in any potential union.

Interesting. I was younger when I moved to Poland than Walesa was when he moved to Gdansk. Let me guess: the 'living in a place makes you from that place' rule also doesn't apply to the generations of Jews who lived in Poland for centuries but are still considered by your ilk to not be Polish.

This thread isn't about you or the Jews. And you know full well that it's been thrashed out many times already here on PF about how you and your ilk always prefer to live apart from wider society no matter which countries are kind enough to host you. Now stick to the topic of this thread or go start or resurrect a different one.

Do feel very welcome to quote a post in which I say that I've been assimilated by Poland.

Gladly:

Interesting. I was younger when I moved to Poland than Walesa was when he moved to Gdansk. Let me guess: the 'living in a place makes you from that place' rule also doesn't apply to the generations of Jews who lived in Poland for centuries but are still considered by your ilk to not be Polish.

Harry
26 Sep 2013  #25
As others have already pointed out to you Danzig was and still is the German name for Gdansk.

Danzig was the city which Danzigers came from. It doesn't exist any more. I understand that you have never been to Poland, in fact you rarely leave your parents' basement, but if you did go to Gdansk, you'd find a city which is completely different to the one which Danzigers came from. I happen to know more than a little about Gdansk, and its history, in large part because, unlike you, I have been there: I even lived there for a year.

Despite centuries of war and partitions different regions in Poland still retain their own unique local flavor and Gdansk is not an exception to this. Land acquisitions and population transfer don't completely erase a city's or region's past and this is why the past always continues to influence the present. If you weren't so homebound and spent less time satiating your internet addiction you could discover this for yourself.

Danzig wasn't Polish. It's a real pity that you can't go to Gdansk and have a look for yourself: the city was almost completely destroyed and the Germans who had made up 95% of the city's population were virtually all either dead or expelled. When the city was rebuilt it was not rebuilt in its pre-war appearance, the 'old bits were built to seem pre-German. Most of the German and Prussian style buildings which had survived the war were torn down. Even the names of the streets were changed, despite Poles having used different names before the war.

And I never said Wałęsa was originally from Gdansk either.

Quite right: you actually called him a "Danziger". You wanted to imply that he was German, that he wasn't really Polish. You, a teenager who has never done a thing to help Poland, want to insult a Polish hero; have you no shame?

It doesn't matter where he grew up anyway because his name is now virtually synonymous with Gdansk.

Indeed it is, just as Gunter Grass' name is virtually synonymous with Danzig, the city which Grass writes about.

Harry: Do feel very welcome to quote a post in which I say that I've been assimilated by Poland.

Gladly:

Harry: Interesting. I was younger when I moved to Poland than Walesa was when he moved to Gdansk. Let me guess: the 'living in a place makes you from that place' rule also doesn't apply to the generations of Jews who lived in Poland for centuries but are still considered by your ilk to not be Polish.

Oh dear, poor you: yet again reality is not to your liking and so you try to alter it. And as usual you fail: everybody can see that the quote you says not a single word about me being assimilated, it only says that I have been here for some time. Better luck next time.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
26 Sep 2013  #26
Danzig was the city which Danzigers came from.

Probably you talk about the country Freie Stadt Danzig, not just the city.
Harry
26 Sep 2013  #27
No, I was talking about the city. Although your point does raise an interesting question: during the interbellum period would somebody from, for example, Tiegenhof describe themself as a "Danziger"?
Irm2
26 Sep 2013  #28
Danzig no longer exists; Gdansk does exist. But I guess one may need to actually go to Gdansk in order to see that it is not what Danzig was.

Danzig and Gdansk are not two places as you would have it. Sure some German ilk can use is as an indication that German Danzinig no longer exist and they even me be right. However people who are not bound but Germans sentiment, people who know more about Poland and Poland's history than what they remembered from their antisemitism-ims and WWII in Poland leaflets do know that Danzing is only a German name for Gdansk and that Gdansk was there before the first German immigrant call it Danzing.

As for your issue with Bieganski, you can easily disprove his claim and post something in the Polish section of the Polish Forum's.
Harry
26 Sep 2013  #29
Danzing is only a German name for Gdansk

You're right: Danzig is only the German name for the city of Gdansk. Danzig was a German city; the people of that city were Danzigers. People from Gdansk are Gdanszczanin. Our favourite Canadian, referred to Walesa as a Danziger: Walesa most certainly is not a Danziger (although he probably considers himself to be Gdanszczanin).

Gdansk was there before the first German immigrant call it Danzing.

From memory the first known name was Gyddanzyc, which is about as close to Danzig as it is to Gdansk.
TheOther 5 | 3,761
26 Sep 2013  #30
people who know more about Poland and Poland's history than what they remembered from their antisemitism-ims and WWII in Poland leaflets do know that Danzing is only a German name for Gdansk and that Gdansk was there before the first German immigrant call it Danzing.

You still won't be able to ignore the many centuries of Teutonic/Prussian/German history in Gdansk/Danzig and Poland.


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