Poland is the new military power of Europe.

You could insert any european country name in this sentence.....the future global world won't care. The age of Europe nears its end....no european country alone will stay powerful and independent anymore.

The future world will be ruled by blocs....we, the West, Europe with the US, will have to build a strong bloc to stay competetive....something no lone country can achieve on itself anylonger....these are the facts we have to face...thats not a political ideology or a wishful thinking or a try to recreate a Reich!

Every european country alone for itself will fall back and behind in the bin of history....without influence, power and hence without true indepence! *shrugs* I don't make these facts, nor do I build this future, German or not! Everybody with eyes can see this development....

You could, however one country above any other is related to this forum.


Like NATO?

A bloc can be very strong indeed compromised of independent sovereign states.


Why would Poland be "alone for itself"? The development of the Polish armed forces and the growth of a Polish-owned defence industry does not in any sense imply isolation. Why would you even suggest that it might?

NATO was a great start....but for this future Europe will need to chip in alot more!

The US will soon be alot less euro-centric than it is now, and with it NATO.

We will have to fill that space....NATO will help building that european replacement, with Europeans for Europe. They will support each other.

It may sound funny for you, but to keep our independence we will need to work alot closer with each other....the borders will be fluid.


Then what are we discussing here since a few days????

I was saying from the start that a militarily strong Poland would help the whole of Europe....I very much doubt that, as Milo said, that Poland will not use it for the defence of Europe and rather sit on the sidelines and watch, should our Europe be truly threatened.

A strong polish military will be a strong european military....as will every other european-country military....it makes sense to share the costs and duties, right?

What an EXCELLENT post B.B.
You nailed it perfectly.

Are they not already?

Don't you support Poland's full independence and growing defence industry?


Already different countries' armies complement each other. If you think there should be structural reform, perhaps some smaller armies could be under Poland's command.

Wouldn't it be good to see Poland develop a tank or a new fighter jet produced in Poland by Polish-owned companies? It would certainly be good for Poland's economy and growing role as a major country.,,

Of course I do....what is that for a question?

I don't support a gazillion expensive armies side by side....between allies....you see how powerful NATO is...without it we would be all little Ukraines....okay, some with nukes but most not....rife for the picking....do you want that for Poland?

....and don't let me get started with the costs.....all independent and out alone - countries would have to pay for it also all alone.....some richer countries could and surely stem it, many poorer ones could not, or they would have to save it with the negligence of other important things....medical....school....you name it.

But in consequence that would mean that richer countries would be more independent, meaning safer, than not so rich countries.....fair?

ESPECIALLY for smaller, not so stinking rich countries sharing costs and duties, a common army, would make so much sense...how you can be against it is beyond me!

Of course it would....a polish weapon system shared in the whole of Europe....it's soldiers all training on it together, working on in bases shared across the continent....what's not to like? :)


Should I rather had said "limits"? I don't mean so much country borders but borders between independent and union....between your "own" army and a common army!

For along while you won't really know where one stops and the other begins....especially in mainland Europe, with so many small and middle sized countries/armies side by side....

I wish so bad that I could find my post in archives from years ago where I posted that Poland would be the major player in the E.U. soon.

The diminishments and laughs I got from the Brits and Germans from that post was all but pure negative disagreement.
It's not just the new military might that is making Poland stand out in Europe, it is Poland's resolve to not be bullied by Putin.

This resolve was BEFORE Ukraine and has only grown stronger with their new military ever since.
Remember how Putin threatened Poland not to dare send any weapons across their border to Ukraine at the start of the war ?
We all saw how far that threat went.
Now you Polish girls need to start pumping out some future soldiers to maintain your military and growing economy.

Indeed, very much so; selling it to other countries in Europe and elsewhere could be highly advantageous for Poland and of course provide jobs for people in other nearby countries should Poland choose to open manufacturing facilities elsewhere. A synergy of Polish expertise and capital on the one hand, and workers' skills on the other.


No need for a 'gazillion'. Those countries with smaller and less effective armies, who've not really expanded or developed their own much over the past few decades or so can concentrate on other areas (like providing labour or other support, supplying parts under contract etc) while Poland guarantees their borders.


It may yet be the leading economy on that bloc and/or the leading military power. Time will tell and without a crystal ball it's hard to guess how the continent will change with the imminent decline of ruzzia (and the chaos that brings) and the current growth of Türkiye.

....that shows how quickly and drastically a used-to political situation can and will change....

And nobody can ignore the future conflict with China on the horizon....we might have still a few years left to prepare, but not many!

The new Polish NATO will be called the new PONATO

Or PONADTO...

....the enemy should cry hearing it....not laughing.....

*runs*

Poland's enemy is Brussels with its army of Muslim and black migrants, not Berlin or Moscow.
You can kill or repel armies but you can't kill or repel migrants - or you will be called very bad names. See the US.

No, that's not true.

Both are Poland enemies. Right now both wage asymmetric warfare against Poland 🇵🇱 . Nice coincidence, looking as if it had been planned. Nah, no conspiracy theories allowed.

Who are you thinikng about?

Who indeed? The plot thicken.?.

Berlin and Moscow?

....nice to have you back, Iron! :)

I doubt Berlin will side with China in the future conflict....Moscow?


Well....the EU at last seems to make progress in that regard with that new and quite change laws for asylum yesterday....the mood has changed greatly here.

....wrong thread I know....

Brussels is doing its most damn to unleash useless migrants on Poland and destroy Poland's whiteness and homogeneity.
OK, if not the EU then who?


Changing the asylum laws is pointless since those do not apply in the vast majority of cases anyway.
Poland has no legal obligation to take any asylum scum from any country where the scum is safe already. That's why the EU tries the money route.

One day, if the EU scum succeeds in unloading migrants on Poland, Poland will be looking at the September 1939 events with nostalgia.
It was only the German and the Soviet armies...That was easy...wasn't it... No Germans or Soviets in Poland today. Muslim and black refugees are forever.

Hi BB you old 🦊 fox.
Why not 🇨🇳?

Attempting to stop inward migration is pretty pointless. It'll be the story of the next two centuries and the successes/failures won't be about how we attempt to resist it or don't, it's how we manage it.

In Britain, there are plenty of British people whose roots are in India, Pakistan etc, in Germany there are plenty of Germans whose roots are in Turkey or Syria, French from the Maghreb and in a generation there will be Poles with roots elsewhere.

Keep to your own people...We are Europeans ffs! (Even in the US, heh:)


That's why a bigger voice of socially conservative countries like Poland is so important....but that you only get when you give more...you can not only demand. That's why either more money, or more participation and yes more military for all leads to that bigger voice, that much bigger influence. Easy!

The new asylum compromise yesterday was an example how much more conservative govs can achieve together in Brussels!

Insanity of one is not a reason for the next one to be equally stupid. The UK was stupid in opening the gates to the hordes exceeding its capacity to absorb.

What did your moronic country count on to stop the flow? Lack of elbow room?

Most large countries in Europe are socially conservative.

In Poland though, change is hard to predict and as the country grows in status and eclipses some of the other mainland European countries, it will change very fast and perhaps develop in ways nobody expects.


And your moronic country too has very high levels of inward migration; including yourself.

This is however a thread about Polan'd growing status as a military power. Important to build up its defence industry. I suspect seeing different pieces of equipment in action against ruzzia wiill lead to increased sales for the better stuff and decreased sales for items that are seen to be less effective.

I am for Poland and the rest of Europe to have the best army in the universe as long as it does not include a phone with speed dial to Washington, DC.

Complete rubbish and the UK will prove you wrong...... for EU fanatics the UK is "The elephant in the room".

More like the turd in the corner that's stinking up the whole room.

Peddle your "Global Britain" trash amongst your Tory boyfriends. Britain has the least global significance right now that its had since before William the Conqueror came to your foul island in an attempt to civilize you.

An island drowning in Muslim and black refugees...

Rubbish. You're just being nihilistic because the U.K. government (together with our Polish allies) is at the forefront of European countries who are helping Ukraine and nobody except starving North Korea and the mad mullahs of Iran helps you.

Do many people want to go to your cess pit (literally given that 35% don't have a proper khazi) of a country.


Double rubbish. We decide our policies, not you, an immigrant yourself.

And this has little to do with Poland's rise as a military power.

In fact, when this war is over, some parts of the former ruzzian federation may become part of Greater Poland.