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Poland is the new military power of Europe.


jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #151
@Tacitus
Why are there no names on your quotes? Do you have a fault on your computer?

It is disgusting slander of the greatest political project that has ever been undertaken

It's entirely accurate and the EU is far from being " the greatest political project that has ever been undertaken". At least you admit it's a Franco-German political project rather than economic cooperation

No more wars in Europe between European countries that are members

We haven't had a major war in Europe since your country was defeated.

What would happen if there was your 'Euroarmy' and Poland wanted to use it but France, Germany, Italy, wherever, didn't want them to use it?

reconciliation between France and Germany lies at the very heart of the EU

So in fact you do agree that it's a Franco-German project.

Nevertheless, this thread is about the growth and development of the Polish armed forces and the Polish-owned armaments industry. Not fantasies about a 'Euroarmy'.
amiga500 4 | 1,540
10 Jun 2023 #152
No more wars in Europe between European countries that are members

There will only be world peace if we get rid of nation-states comrade.

If your simplistic analasys was true, then Malaysia and Singapore, Czech and Slovakia, who were previously one
entity but split into two indendent states, should have gone to war by now.

greatest political project that has ever been undertaken.

Why should Poland give up it's sovereignty because Germany wants to continue it's megalomaniacal imperialist dreams? The other kraut was talking about Europe being a superpower. We don't want to be a super-power just a successful proud country. Instead of colonising Namibia Germany wants to colonise Europe.

due to Franco-German malice

not malice, just smug condescension and backstabbing.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #153
So in fact you do agree that it's a Franco-German project

I always find it funny how a Brit, the descendant of a huge global Empire, still profiting from centuries of wars, invasions, oppression, colonization, slavery and exploitation projects all of this violent past on little EU! A union whose membership is not only voluntarily but sought after, and worked for for years! (As a future member has along way to go to fulfill all the entry terms).

I still think it's that age old continental european rivalry (either with France, sometimes with Spain and Germany, you name it) which had led to so many wars and destruction in our past....you Brits truly have to get over it!

And not only Poland has still less of a share on Europe, East-Germany has too....and we are fully Germans! Not the EU is to blame for that but decades of the Cold War and that socialist experiment. It will take decades also to close these developmental gaps...
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #154
Why should Poland give up it's sovereignty

That is seriously what some people want. And it's perhaps no coincidence that the countries most keen on that are ones who have taken Poland's sovereignty before. Repeatedly.

that age old continental european rivalry

Which the U.K. isn't part of, and nor are most European countries.

I'm also curious why he thinks we're still profiting from the Empire.

As I've said, five times now, this thread is about Poland's military power, their expanding army and their armaments industry. Not fantasies about an army that doesn't exist.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #155
I'm also curious why he thinks we're still profiting from the Empire.

You wouldn't be the United Kingdom without that empire....we wouldn't even use English as a world language without that Empire....without it you would be just some irrelevant island in the sea before Europe! :)

The whole Brexit was about jealousy, hurt pride....no longer being the top.....you Brits have nothing against an EU-Empire, if it would be led by London, not Brussels, be honest!
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #156
You wouldn't be the United Kingdom without that empire

In fact the Union predates the main period of Empire building, but never mind the actual facts...

without it you would be just some irrelevant island in the sea before Europe!

Remember that the overseas colonies came as a result of naval power and a very strong and unpredictable economy. Not the other way round.

And we are after all talking about Poland's growth as a military power, not the age of empires or other countries' pan-European ambitions.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #157
You are quite a modern-thinking individual Jon, at least I had pegged you as such with your defense of all things "leftist" social developments and minority rights and such.

Why is it that politically you share the viewpoint of the darkest british ultra-nationalists??? Only happy when there is strife and fraction on the Continent, neighbours hating and fighting each other?

Because that would keep Europe weak and irrelevant? Further depending on GREAT Britain? Is that it?
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #158
darkest british nationalists

If either one of is nationalist in outlook it isn't me now, is it....

Only happy when there is strife and fraction on the Continent, neighbours hating and fighting each other?

Whatever you're smoking must be good. Did you get it from Görli or Hasenheide? I find that in Hasenheide you get more and in Götli it tends to be stronger. And I feel sad that the camels (I generally use the guys closest to the camel enclosure) are gone now.

This isn't however about you or me, it's about the Polish military. They have huge potential and Poland has a chance to be one of the leading military powers in Europe, perhaps the second, and possibly one of the world's strongest and most effective armies.

Poland is very much on the up.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #159
I find it interesting still....the truth about your hostility came out at last....all argumentation before was just smoke, wasn't it.

Behind it all it's the age old rivalry.....Europe must'n unify! Or else the UK will lose out....right? Better the Continent fights each other, better for Britain!

We can leave it at that!
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #160
Hmm. You started an argument about something other than the thread topic, lost it and are now getting personal.

Better the Continent fights each other

Did I suggest that? And who on that continent has been behind most of the fighting?

Perhaps a strong Polish army could be a bulwark against strife.

A question. Do you want to see a strong fully independent Poland be a strong military power and major arms producer or not?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #161
and are now getting personal.

Am I wrong?

A question.

Absolutely!

Poland could be a powerful european leader....being part of the military arm would only strenghten its voice in Brussels. Having a strong military would generally strenghten the EU! I said so already at the beginning of this thread! :)
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #162
Poland could be a powerful european leader

It is already, and as its economy grows, Poland may well dwarf others provided they don't allow their industrial base to be owned by companies in other countries.

And of course the plans for Poland to have a strong army is part of that.

No need for it to be part of the non-existent 'military arm' of anything else.

And of course I'm sure you'll agree that what Poland does with its army, navy, armaments industry and its economy is a matter solely for Poland. As of course is where it buys planes etc from and who it forms or doesn't form alliances with.

What did you think of the article?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #163
No need for it to be part of the non-existent 'military arm' of anything else.

Well....a Poland getting stronger.....the US' influence/interest in Europe getting weaker (because of other more pressing matters in Asia).....Poland an EU member with a growing voice...someone has to take over, and I see Poland willing!

I personally see Poles proud of being heard and seen by Europe at last....being proud to protect Europe....I see a strong Poland bound even closer to the EU than ever!

There will be developments someone "outside" just won't be able to change directional....it is what it is! The Brexit will be in later history books seen as one of the biggest blunders in british history....taking itself out of important decision processes, and needlessly so!

Which article?
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #164
Which article?

The one this thread is about, of course.

Perhaps you're more interested in the idea of a continental superstate, German imperialism and weakly trying to snipe at those countries who aren't interested in that than the actual thread about Poland as a military power.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #165
German imperialism

How so?

Please explain....after all when you see the EU in the year of 2023 it's interesting that you bring the wars of the last century as an argument AGAINST it. After all the EU is the consequence of these wars, and that this warring must stop at last.

Where do you see german imperialism when we greet a stronger Poland building up a strong military?
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #166
EU

EU

We aren't talking about the EU.

We're talking about Poland as a military power.

How did you find the article? You must be a quick reader.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #167
Please answer.....you weren't shy bringing Napoleon, Hitler, DeGaulle and what not into this thread when you think it fits.

Just throwing around things like German Imperialism without explanation is no good conduct!

But it would fit seeing how you can't help even denigrating France with "Micron"....I guess your hostility is not only against Germany but France as well, and they were your allies in both World Wars....so the wars don't explain it...it must be the old rivalry....
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #168
German imperialism? A very real threat to Poland, as Poland's Prime Minister has said.

However (is this the seventh or the eighth time?) we are talking about Poland as a military power.

So what did you think of the article when you first read it two days ago before commenting?
Have your views about the article changed on rereading it today?
Have you read it at all?

Please answer...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #169
Oh please Jon....don't hide now like an old woman.

What do you meant with "german imperialism"!

Or maybe you meant nothing with it....just throwing out some insults without any reasoning....and you know that very well!

*shakes head*

Yeah....back to the future polish army....I look forward to it! :)
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #170
Now, now. Behave.

The answer to your rhetorical question is amply covered in this thread. If you're unable to figure it out, brush up on your comprehension skills.

So what did you think of the article when you first read it two days ago before commenting?
Have your views about the article changed on rereading it today?
Have you read it at all?

Please answer...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #171
The answer to your rhetorical question is amply covered in this thread

No its not.....or I wouldn't ask....and its not a rethorical question!

You have no answer, just admit it....be brave Jon...we all make errors sometimes! You are the typical nationalist Brit...who hates its continental main rivals France and Germany....and would wish they would be back to hating and fighting each other....hence the hate for the EU and the wish for that union to fail!

*shrugs* It's not totally new but still abit surprising coming from YOU from all posters!

You know that Putin wishes for the same, don't you....no old ex-empire is truly happy about the EU....before...so many small countries....alone....easy pickings....no longer!
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #172
You have no answer

Read the thread; it's all there in black and white.

A summary of some of the examples of German imperialism mentioned already in the thread that you're evidently too lazy to read?
Multiple invasions of Poland and other neighbours over the past two centuries, economic expansionism post-1990 including buying up other countries' critical infrastructure, opposition to companies from other countries buying assets in Germany and quite a lot more that's already here in this thread.

It isn't a thread about Germany though, despite your attempts to make it such. It is about Poland, a country which is (despite Germany's best efforts over the past two centuries) a fully independent sovereign nation with growing economic and military power.

Now back to the questions:

So what did you think of the article when you first read it two days ago before commenting?
Have your views about the article changed on rereading it today?
Have you read it at all?

Please answer...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #173
Multiple invasions of Poland and other neighbours over the past two centuries,

Tja....wanna compare german imperialsim with your Empire??? Really?

We are innocent kittens compared to you...ROFL

Legacy of Violence: A History of the British Empire by Caroline Elkins review - the brutal truth about Britain's past

theguardian.com/books/2022/mar/13/legacy-of-violence-a-history-of-the-british-empire-by-caroline-elkins-review-the-brutal-truth-about-britains-past

If we take that past into account Britain should never have any influence ever again....nowhere!

You Brits could use some reprocessing of your past....something the Germans did....
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #174
You're now googling things to try whataboutery in order to avoid the topic.

We are innocent kittens compared to you...ROFL

If 'innocent kittens' take six million men women and children to death camps and gas them with cyanide, describe the inhabitants of a neighbouring country as 'untermensch' set up the Dirlewanger Brigade to strangle female cancer patients to death while reaping them, I think I'll stick to puppies.

And the crimes of the past are nothing, nothing at all, to 'ROFL, about. Though I gather the SS were laughing when they cut the water off at Belsen before it was liberated.

However this thread isn't aboutbGermany, despite your attempts to make it so.

So, once again,

What did you think of the article when you first read it two days ago before commenting?
Have your views about the article changed on rereading it today?
Have you read it at all?

Please answer...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #175
I repeat...it's funny seeing the EU being called by a Brit as some kind of nefarious, nasty German-French project to subjugate, oppress, enslave and exploit the other poor Europeans...after all its what your Empire did and would do, isn't it!

Do you know that the Internet is full of examples about the murderous cruelty of the British Empire?

Why can we Germans accept our failures and so many Brits can't? Still think it was a good thing?
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #176
So once again,

What did you think of the article when you first read it two days ago before commenting?
Have your views about the article changed on rereading it today?
Have you read it at all?

Please answer...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #177
Did you ever scrutinize your hostility against Germany and France?

Where it stems from? Is it something taught in british schools?
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #178
You still haven't answered the very pertinent questions:

What did you think of the article when you first read it two days ago before commenting?
Have your views about the article changed on rereading it today?
Have you read it at all?

Please answer...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,823
10 Jun 2023 #179
I mean....there are alot of good arguments....but to compare the EU with the worst of the british Empire is not.....with that you can only lose!

I hope you refrain from it from now on....when you are smart...
jon357 74 | 22,054
10 Jun 2023 #180
I mean....there are alot of good arguments

Except you aren't making any, are you.

What did you think of the article when you first read it two days ago before commenting?
Have your views about the article changed on rereading it today?
Have you read it at all?

Please answer...

Somehow, I suspect you didn't bother to read the article at all before commenting on it.


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