No hard feelings here, it looks like the Serbians learned their lessons a lot quicker than the Germans.
On a side note, I am very glad that Merkel invested a lot of effort into presenting the Balkans with a European option. Germans know from their history how long it can take for a people to come to terms with its' past, but I sincerely hope that Serbia will one day within my lifetime join the EU, and thus bring the project of pacifying the Balkans to a conclusive end.
Tacitus, Germany remains the rich, unpleasant uncle of whom everyone's sort of afraid, yet whom everyone needs when they don't have enough money:-)
A simplistic response to your comment, yet apt just the same, wouldn't you agree?
I can live with that. Isn't it better to be feared than to be loved, if you can't have both? ;) But who knows how things'll look in another 50 years.@Crow
Don`t worry. Pacification 100%. When we finish here what Turks and Germans started, there would be no Islamists and no Nazis here.
It is a good thing Serbia was stopped the last time they wanted to follow in German or Turkish footsteps. ;) I am sure Belgrad has learned by now like Germany did that attempting to increase your territory by war will inevitable lead to a decrease in territory.
I imagine a German could argue they are capable of playing both roles and choose this one. And to some people (South Americans and Asians especially), Germans are only those positive attributes.
I imagine a German could argue they are capable of playing both roles and choose this one.
I'd argue so too, but apparantly it'll take some time for some people to accept this. As evidenced by the current Polish government, resentiments run deep.
Traditionally however, what has often stymied Germany's smooth entree onto the world stage has been her intransigent inability to compromise! Such inflexibilty not only led to the declaration of war, but, twice in the last century, to the loss of that war owing to a nearly intractible rigidity which often failed to take into account the unexpected, the illogical, the serendipitous, in short, the element of surprise.
Let us hope that Ms. Merkel or her successor will not make future tactical blunders:-)
Let us hope that Ms. Merkel or her successor will not make future tactical blunders:-)
Germany so far had only sensible leaders after WWII. Hopefully this will continue to do. At the very least, German aversion to military power will make sure that even stupid German leaders won't be a danger to its' neighbours.
I have no idea what you're talking about. I asked for examples of Sarazzin being factually wrong and you make a vague allusion to 'trivializing' (while allowing that it might be factually correct)
If you can't give examples of him getting the facts (not attitude) wrong, then... he's right (as unsettling as thight might be for you).
I'm not "lashing out" at anyone, only expressing impatience at supposedly intelligent posters such as you, falling for easy answers to infinitely complex problems!
Sarazzin has expressed a yearning for a migrant-free Germany, perhaps not in precisely those words, but nonetheless wishes for a more homogeneous FRG. While understandable, this is dangerous rhetoric which plays on the simple minds of those who once upon a time supported Hitler.
No answers to important questions are ever simple, Maf! As a fellow American, I doubt either of us can adequately come up with a reasonable compromise to our own immigration crisis. Ban Muslims? What will King Donald The Dodo think up next? We've never been too far from "Fahrenheit 451", you know.
You're arguing in terms of "facts" which don't enter into this type of discussion. Maybe Sarazzin's, Hoecke's, Gedeon's "facts" are all correct, for argument's sake! Merely because someone or something is logical, doesn't necessarily make it right or just:-)
The more you abandon the liberalism and tolerance of our forefathers, the quicker you pave the path straight to hell! I know many younger Germans particularly, have been crying "empathy fatigue" for a while now.
The truth of the matter remains that compassion has no statute of limitations. Supposedly, this is what separates civilized humans from barbarians.
Again, if you want revisionist thinking, contact our friend the late Prof. Hillgruber and I'm sure he could render you some valuable assistance.....from wherever he isLOL
Concerning Trump's polarizing presence at the G-20 Summit in Hamburg, he continues to refute any insinuations that possibly, just possibly, he could be adding more fuel to the fire already consuming Europe.
You're arguing in terms of "facts" which don't enter into this type of discussion
Au contraire mon amis, facts about the perfromance of given immigrant groups should be the basis of future policy. If group B commits less crimes and starts more businesses and pays more taxes and has a higher graduation rate than group A then a rational immigration policy would favor group B over group A.
But apparently for all their logic Germans are incapable of thinking of immigration in any terms but charity and noblesse oblige (which will backfire badly at some time in the future).
The truth of the matter remains that compassion has no statute of limitations
So your future of Europe is New Year's in Cologne forever.....
Maf, are you forever going to hold against migrants IN GENERAL the heinous actions of a dastardly few?
The whole point Merkel's making about the concept of "tolerance" and the like is that it's not worth beans if it's too easy to be tolerant; like Christian virtues such as charity, it's only valuable when it hurts! This is the solely valid acid test for humanity. As soon as we humans begin making excuses and trying to short circuit real life by removing the necessary sting of unpleasantness, we become no better than the Nazis themselves who promised Germany a future without sickness, sadness, pain...in a phrase, a world without conscience:-)
I'm no saint, neither are you, neither are any of us. Yet, we ARE human and so long as we attempt to perfect our imperfect selves there'll always be hope for a brighter tomorrow.
Don't abandon those sentimental ideals, Maf! One day you'll find they're the only things worth living and dying for.
are you forever going to hold against migrants IN GENERAL the heinous actions of a dastardly few?
Unlike you, I don't want honor killings, burkas or female genital mutilation in Europe, muslim immigrants (when they arrive in large numbers) bring all three and hold onto them quite tenaciously.
he whole point Merkel's making about the concept of "tolerance" and the like is that it's not worth beans if it's too easy to be tolerant
So immigration policy should be about bringing in the worst immigrants possible. Noted.
like Christian virtues
I'm not a Christian.
I personally think it's moraly reprehensible for Merkel to express her Christian values in a way that COSTS HER NOTHING! Random German citizens pay the price for her pseudo-moralizing. The government of any country should put the interests of citizens first, legal non-citizens next and then can worry about charity and do-gooding.
If Merkel really wants to do good then she can bail out Greece.
I'm no saint, neither are you, neither are any of us
How generous of you to admit it. But the point is that adults have their own agendas and migrants are not eager to be your playthings and status symbols so you can show off how moral you are. I actually respect the cultures of the migrants more than you do.
Maf, I'm no more advocating migrants as pawns in power politics any more than you or any thinking person! Of course the results of her failed policies are shameful, but that surely musn't mean that we throw out the baby with the bathwater:-)
A Europe without foreigners in her midst, as in the "good old days", huh? Come on, dude! How can a future of happiness possibly be built on a past of someone else's misery without eventually crumbling under the weight of its own evil?
I agree to an extent, jon. Admittedly, burkas, kijabs or anything of that sort do clash with the predominant Judeo-Christian majority of Europe. Allowing people to wear such however is no more than fair if those who wear them respect the practices of the majority among whom they live, what's more, honor their PLACE within that majority culture, teeth-gnashingly frustrating as it may be for the latter to accept.
Maf, my whole point is that you're running the risk of judging an entire peoples by that "bad lot" in Cologne! For the umpteenth time, do we enlightened folk eternally castigate ALL Germans as Nazis, ALL Italians as Mafiosi, ALL Jews against the hateful, rabid rhetoric of a Meier Kahan etc...????!
Maf, my whole point is that you're running the risk of judging an entire peoples by that "bad lot" in Cologne!
Why not let me worry about that...
The fact is that middle eastern cultures are the way they are and in their own contexts work (for some value of 'work'). But people from that cultural environment mostly deal poorly with the challenges of living in radically different cultural environments. No European country has been very successful with large scale muslim immigration - why not end the experiment? How many turkeys are you going to drop off the Empire State Building before realizing that they don't really fly?
Highly educated and secularly oriented muslims do muc better in Europe (partly because they're trying to get awa from their countrymen) and I'm fine with them. But muslim countries mostly have terrible education systems so the numbers of them are small.
You realize of course, while I'm NOT "worrying" about itLOL, that many non-Western Europeans make equally scathing blanket judgements about us too:-) Cuts both ways! Intolerance is a double-edged sword (no cliche or pun intended) whose cutting edge wounds both hate groups alike.
Home / News / Germany After the EU and the Russian Scenario - future of the European Union and Poland
