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Germany After the EU and the Russian Scenario - future of the European Union and Poland


Tacitus 2 | 1,413
7 Jul 2017 #151
@dudar

y. I just don't understand why she is still so popular in Germany and why the rest of European countries follow her lead...
@ dudar

Germany is currently experiencing a golden era. Unemployment is at a record low, the economy is booming and so on. What's more Merkel is perceived as a highly skilled diplomat who kept the EU together, negotiated with Putin over the Ukraine and in general is seen as a welcome contrast to politicians like Trump. It is no coincidence that Merkel's approval ratings improved since Trump got elected.
nothanks - | 633
7 Jul 2017 #152
^ Merkel's handling of the Greek crisis was not admirable. Her deal with Turkey left people scratching their heads. Her career reputation is of a calculated and rather conservative leader [I.E. her recent remarks after the same sex marriage vote] and yet her legacy might fall squarely on a quick and miscalculated move during the Migrant Crisis.

Merkel is on pace to defeat Schulz and without having a player in this race (because they are both globalist) I would prefer to see Merkel fix her historic blunder. As for why Merkel is on pace for yet another term [Putin is jealous] the German press is clearly censored and everyday Germans frightened to publicly speak out or even question the government because of laws being passed by said government.

While Poland has it's own issues, they are drastically different. We import foreign companies not foreign people. Germany is openly accepting cheap labor on economic promises. While I will label the Turkish 60's generation a success, the recent Turkish migrants are less so. It must drive the regular German crazy that Poland is importing Ukrainians and they are being flooded with the 3rd World.
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #153
The problem with Schulz is that he speaks his mind, as does Merkel. Problem is, most aren't interested in what they have to say any longer; their liberal speech has long since fallen on deaf ears:-)

Sad but so, and somehow a Sigmar Gabriel chancellorship doesn't exactly inspire confidence on the Left either.
Tacitus 2 | 1,413
7 Jul 2017 #154
and yet her legacy might fall squarely on a quick and miscalculated move during the Migrant Crisis.

Unlikely. In the long run, the refugee crisis is simply not as much of an issue as the danger of a break-up of the Euro and EU, nor the problems Putin's Russia are creating. If she manages to weather the storm and make both the common currency and the EU more resilient to such crisis, she'll be assessed very highly by both history and Germans.

German press is clearly censored and everyday Germans frightened to publicly speak out or even question the government because of laws being passed by said government.

Nonsense. You are free to criticize the government as much as you like.
nothanks - | 633
7 Jul 2017 #155
The Migrant Crisis will be a stench in Europe for at-least the next 30 to 50 years. Recent attackers were yesterdays migrants. Every future attack that has any connection from 2015 to ? (when will the influx even end) will be blamed on Merkel's invite

As for the EU - I doubt she will be able to overcome the historic Brexit. At best she can weather the storm of discontent but that is at best.

Germany just passed a law censoring and even threatening to arrest individuals for free speech on social media
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #156
Meaning that Merkel's government is continuing to fuel the "leftist dictatorship" angle of eternal provocateurs such as Thilo Sarazzin, Jonathan Meese etc., I suppose.

Great. We're back where we started:-)
mafketis 36 | 10,972
7 Jul 2017 #157
Hopefully, Merkel will have learned from her missteps

Hope is not a plan.

eternal provocateurs such as Thilo Sarazzin

Name three factual errors he's made.
Tacitus 2 | 1,413
7 Jul 2017 #158
Germany just passed a law censoring and even threatening to arrest individuals for free speech on social media

No not free speech. Hate speech. Due to historical reasons, Germany draws a line when it comes to inciting violence and hatred. You can criticize the government because of the refugee crisis, bit calling for the murder of refugees or politicians will get you in trouble and rightly so. Especially because many local politicians were the victims of personal threats and insults, who have not personal bodyguards to protect them.
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #159
Until today, making snide cracks about the NS-period, mock Hitler salutes (regardless of how "harmlessly" intended) and the like can land anyone, German national or foreign visitor, native or tourist, in some awfully nasty hot water:-)

Ignorance of the LAW is never an excuse!

@Maf, when someone trivializes the Shoah, factually or not, this gives pause to wonder as to what that individual's motives are. Always thought you were on the correct side. Now, I'm not so sure.
mafketis 36 | 10,972
7 Jul 2017 #160
when someone trivializes the Shoah, factually or not

If it's factual it's not trivializing

Always thought you were on the correct side

Relax. I am.
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #161
Yo, pal, relativizing IS trvializing by its very nature! What's wrong with you? Where's your moral compass? Did ya trade it in for "peace of mind"?

::-)
nothanks - | 633
7 Jul 2017 #162
Tacitus - you are telling me calling for murder and inciting violence wasn't against the law before?

Now, hurting people's feeling with letters might be punishable. She is also attempting to force organisations hand I.E. fining Facebook if they don't censor it. How are actual German companies and organizations treated? Will Germany end up blocking Facebook completely if Zuckerberg doesn't comply.
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #163
Germany continues to react to the Nazi Era, thus swinging to the other extreme, whereby media must clamp down on ordinary folks stating any sort of criticism of anything Germany says is "straitjacketing" their right to say the first thing that comes into their head, well considered or not:-)
Crow 155 | 9,030
7 Jul 2017 #164
pierdolze people, Germany is on the verge of Civil War. I just learned that real bullets started to fly in Germany, in Hamburg.

Duda choose wrong timing to promote Germany in Poland, in front of USA president. What when his protector Germany collapse.
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #165
Whereas Poland may have right-tilting tendencies which make Trump seem appealing, the same cannot be said for mainstream Germany. The protesters in Hamburg are extremists, and extremists of whichever stripe, be they right or left, can pose a danger, even to a hopefully stable democracy:-)
Crow 155 | 9,030
7 Jul 2017 #166
hopefully stable democracy

Formed on blood of Slavs and assimilated Slavic masses.
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #167
???? What on earth are you crowing about?
Crow 155 | 9,030
7 Jul 2017 #168
Liz brate don`t pretend that you don`t know that entire Germany was formed on the ground stolen from Slavs in process known as Drang Nach Osten.
Crow 155 | 9,030
7 Jul 2017 #169
Now is Germany in fire.

Eyewitness video shows cars set ablaze during Anti-G20 protest in Hamburg

youtube.com/watch?v=YDmUGqK-UmE
Crow 155 | 9,030
7 Jul 2017 #170
Brutality of regime in Germany

Germany: Protesters teargassed as police evict anti-G-20 camp in Hamburg

youtube.com/watch?v=H6kE032DuXQ
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #171
Drang nach Osten referred to the German historical equivalent of America's "Manifest Destiny" during the mid-to latter part of the 19th century, in which the US-Gov.t felt it was her almost G_d-given right to move West and settle America's personal stake in her own future as divine providence foretold:-) The Native Americans interfered with that future and were hence subject to annihilation. Germany went in the so-called "opposite" direction, claiming her frontiers lay way to the East and that it was Germany's destiny to create Lebensraum in Slavic lands, from which, naturally, the Slavs would be displaced, peacefully if possible, forcibly, indeed brutally, if necessary, in order to make room for the deserving Germanic peoples.

You're comparing apples and oranges, Crow, AS USUAL:-)
Tacitus 2 | 1,413
7 Jul 2017 #172
Sadly, the police in Germany is only allowed to act with great restrain. Which is why you have regularly people who like violence and who apparantly think that they can have some "fun" with the police.

Liz brate don`t pretend that you don`t know that entire Germany was formed on the ground stolen from Slavs in process known as Drang Nach Osten.

If you want to interprete history like the early 20th century historians you might have a point (and even then, 3/4 of today's Germany was never settled by any tribes that could be called "slavic"). I know some people in the Balkans have still some catching up to do until they are at a civiliatorical with the rest of Europe, and evidently you belong to them. But from my my previous travels to Serbia, I am aware that you only present shrinking minority among your people.
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #173
There's plenty of historical revisionism to go around, Tacitus. Just contact telepathically the late Andreas Hillgruber and his well-known thesis for confirmation:-)
Tacitus 2 | 1,413
7 Jul 2017 #174
Of course, history would hardly be interesting if it wasn't open to interpretation. That being said, historians nowadays are more aware about the many problems that can arise if you apply modern views on historical sources, and of course how ancient sources are often problematic as well.

I mean we have many Roman historians who have written about the Germanic tribes (Tacitus was notably among them), and applied names to them like Sueben et al. But they most likely never visited these lands, nor is their any evidence that those tribes called temselves like the Romans did, or considered themselves part of "Germanic" tribes.
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #175
There's interpretation, and then there's revisionism:-)
Tacitus 2 | 1,413
7 Jul 2017 #176
Crows' posts are an excellent example for the latter. ;)
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #177
You're telling me:-)

Anyhow, a number of European nations are concerned once again that Germany has become too economically powerful and will steamroller her way across the continent, making it harder for less economically stable countries such as Greece etc.to be able to compete globally.
Crow 155 | 9,030
7 Jul 2017 #178
pierdolze on you two, Tac and Liz, no revisionism in my posts. Ask Lusatian Serbs or Polabian Slavs or Arkona or Bismarck.

You are both crazy.
Lyzko 45 | 9,321
7 Jul 2017 #179
WE??!! I think the shoe's on the other foot, sir:-)
lol
Tacitus 2 | 1,413
7 Jul 2017 #180
Anyhow, a number of European nations are concerned once again that Germany has become too economically powerful and will steamroller her way across the continent,

That doesn't prevent them from asking them for German investment, or even closer military cooperation though. I am sure with time they'll come to accept that Germany wants mutual benefical relation with them. The Czech Republic for example has greatly benefited from the close economic cooperation with Germany, as do others.

I don't think any European government has spoken out against German leadership, except Poland and Hungary (and even Orban made sure not to upset too many Germans), in fact most have voiced their displeasure about German reluctance to lead in the past. Personally I think it is good that we have a strong French president with Macron again, so that the sole responsibility does not lie with Merkel any longer.


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