Germany After the EU and the Russian Scenario - future of the European Union and Poland

As we already see, Germany is punished for taking part in destruction of Yugoslavia. Sure, its not yet announced publicly but, it is that. Destroying Yugoslavia in deal with USA Clinton clan, France, Britain and Islamic league, Germany violated ties with Russia and China. As we see now, with changes in USA, Germany also harmed its relations with USA. For one, because destroyed balance of power in Europe and, second, because opened space to Islamists.

Ahemmm, it was Trump who harmed relations with Germany, NOT Merkel:-))

Exactly. As answer on German imperialism that set USA in very unpleasant situation with China and Russia. So, Merkel as Merkel, more or less pleasant lady is just one in line of German politicians which manipulated with media and NATO/EU collective resources for its own selfish interests, in last 20 years. Payday has come.

German "imperialism", Crow??! From which outdated textbook are you quoting?! Yo dude, the war's over! The US, Russia, Britain, and France won the Big One and the danger's passed, so where's the problem?

I'll admit that PEGIDA and AfD don't exactly instill confidence, but in all likelihood, Merkel will handily take the upcoming election:-)

Imperialism, expansionism, neo-colonialism, call it as you wish but, German involvement in destruction of Yugoslavia and formation of Nazi Greater Croatia and mind-blowing Nazi-Islamic Bosnia-Herzegovina (with exception of Serb republic there that relatively escaped that lunacy thru its autonomy), is exactly something like that. Adventurism that Germany yet have to pay.

You say that like you think it's a good thing: Here's a great article on the Merkel tendency to force German policies on EU countries, short story: What gets called "Anti-EU" sentiment is rebellion agains the incresingly authoritarian stance of Germany vis a vis the rest of the EU. If the EU does break up (or is drastically weakened) a lot of that can be laid at her door.

lrb.co.uk/v38/n07/wolfgang-streeck/scenario-for-a-wonderful-tomorrow

Merkel denies the need for changes and sees everything the only possible way - her way. I just don't understand why she is still so popular in Germany and why the rest of European countries follow her lead...

Because disciplined Germans knows that all this represent game. They sow demise of Yugoslavia and expansion of German sphere on South-Eastern and Central Europe. They sow how their satellites in the region consolidate (Croatia, Muslims in Bosnia, Albania). They know that there are many more regions that as they believe awaits them, in Poland, in Czech republic, Austria, etc, etc. They sow how EU serve them well, how NATO serve them well. They see how Slavic countries and Eastern Europe losing population, weakening. So, disciplined Germans knows that their is the game, higher good and they are ready to endure this with migrants. They will protest from time to time but, deep in themselves, they are disciplined, they trust in their elite and wait for the game to bring them what they also want, Germany as they want to be.

Well, Germany dominates over Europe, but I think not all Germans are satisfied with the current state of things that Merkel offers them. Seems to me, their discipline is what makes the best of Germany's economy. Still the German people are scared to open their minds and say what they really think because of their past. And that is why they tolerate the migrants who became Merkel's political tool.

Germany must be prevented to dominate because it leads to assimilation of Slavs and that bring wars. Actually, even symbolical domination of Germany and any western European country won`t be allowed in multi-polar world. So, if Germany (not only Germany) want EU to survive at least for now, Capital of EU would be moved out of western Europe. USA and Russia are about to make it happen and Vatican would bless it.

Germany won't just give it all up.

No, not easily. Question is what wants USA and Russia.

And what do they both want?

They agreed that they both want multi-polar world. Start from that in thinking. They obviously agree. Then, add China, Vatican, India, Basil and Japan, automatically among those who support multi-polar world. Also, its not obvious yet but, Britain also agree to it, quite possible only to join as pawn in USA sphere. So, which civilizational centers/territories aren`t defined? That is western Europe with two major players: 1. Germany and France and, 2. Slavic world and rest of Eastern/South-Eastern Europe. If France and Germany wants to force EU for now, compromise would be to move Capital out of western Europe, somewhere on the East of Europe. USA and Russia would agree to it. If Germany accepts that her long term plans were shaken and disturbed, Germany may push to expand solely as unique world power (in multi-polar world read that as- civilizational center). It means that would Germany talk to USA and Russia about countries/territories that should be admitted in German sphere. We can speculate on it a lot of. Same is with France. France can also continue as unique power of multi-polar world. We can also speculate about French sphere. Considering intercontinental territorial pretensions of France and Germany, its not only USA and Russia who would be asked but other powers as well. Talks would be long and serious. Now, what about Slavic world and Eastern Europe? If EU fail as option, most probable scenario is that two major Slavic powers emerge from the situation. One is Poland as center for Intermarium and second is Russia as center for Eurasian Union. See, its realistic to think that USA president Trump coming to Poland in order to talk to Polish president Duda about Poland`s stance on this development. In any case, essentially, solution would be get in USA-Russia-Poland talks. But that, if Poland have strength (or, if you want, if its allowed) to talk as independent multi-polar center. If not, Slavic world and Eastern Europe/South-Eastern Europe may become object of trade between other multi-polar centers. It means that would Russia extend her appetites to receive new members from EU/SEE and, Germany the same. In that scenario Poland may face what Yugoslavia and Ukraine already got- division on different spheres depending on internal desires and tendencies within Poland. In any case, I just speculate but, I tend to think that these days, more then ever before, a lot of depend on Poland- on how is Poland serious state, mentality and mind-set of populace. Because, all options are on the table.

Interesting. I think it's possible to see in the nearest future two different unions in Europe taking into account the current troubles of the EU. Likely it will be the Western European Union led by Germany, France or England. And the Eastern European Union led by one of the Slavic countries, maybe Poland will take this role at first.

Hopefully, Merkel will have learned from her missteps.

Its more than a misstep, it was a gigantic blunder!

Trump should tell her, you better starting paying your NATO bill or be kicked out!

Considering the US debt going into the trillions by now, that's hardly equitable:-)

The US pays 22% of the operating budget of NATO, Germany pays 15%. The 2% of GDP that was agreed upon has nothing to do with the NATO budget. Each member is supposed to spend that cash on its own military by 2024 (and not 2017!!!). There are no dues to NATO or the US, as tRump tries to spin it.

Ya, they finally are going start to belly up. Who's been covering their A$$ since the1950`s?

Only 5 of the NATO countries pay their fair share.

The terrorist enclave of Belgium only pays 0.85% they shouldn't receive anything but the boot!

"Fair" is relative. The USA has global ambitions and therefore a much larger military budget than anybody else. So if we decide to spend 3.3% or more of our GDP on the military, that's our own stupidity. Others don't have to follow. The 2% GDP mentioned earlier is not even binding. It's an objective.


The American troops in Germany were part of an occupation force, remember? Even if the occupation officially ended in 1954, it's no secret that American, French and British forces were not only there to protect Germany from the Russians, but also to protect themselves from the Germans.

Let's not forget that they were occupying Berlin until 1990 as well.

In fairness, the British hardly cared from the 70's onwards, but the Americans and French certainly took their occupying power status seriously.

Similar to the situation in post-War occupied Vienna! The British under Sir Alexander Galloway and the Russians surely did their part to prosecute ex-Nazis aka Nazi sympathizers, in among other areas, the film industry, such as Karl Hartl and many others:-)

The Americans and the French acted more like caretakers than occupiers, to be quite frank.

Frankly, its alright that Germans now works for USA. Molesting is bitter cup that travel round the world.

You mean what is a "bitter pill", exactly?? Not sure I understood your "Serblish", Crow!
:-)

Yes, bitter taste in mouth. They got it. They made mistake and they got it. And its just the beginning.

While I can imagine Poland emerging as center of, as you call it, Eastern European Union, I can`t imagine France and Germany grouping on the long run within Western European Union. Simple, France and Germany are two entirely different civilizations. But, on the middle and short run, it can work, as we see on example of existing EU.

@Crow
Maybe Germany and France could shuffle from time to time, like a presidency - 5 years for Germany and then 5 years for France.


Will she? Looks like she do everything to keep the same order of things.

Necessity will determine that, dudar! Survival is the art of learning from previous mistakes, and correcting them:-) This means, making darn sure Turkey DOES NOT enter the EU come 2020, one of many planned dates for said catastrophe waiting to happen!!

Yes. Kind of never-ending joke. But, forget it. Germans are practical. They know what they doing, even when other Europeans don`t understand them. Still, we Serbians understand well those moral heretics. Must be because they fell of from our meat, like a rotting limb, a cancer.