The BEST Guide to POLAND
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All Future Polish Genealogy Researchers: Please Read before you start a thread



Patrycja19 63 | 2,703    
7 Mar 2012  #1

Hello, its so nice of you to visit Polishforums.com and we would all love to help you, but are limited to what we can help

you with.

Before you ask/Create a Thread about your ancestor. Read Below.

Have you visited Ancestry.com?
Have you visited Family History Center?
Have you visited Ellis island?

If the Answer is yes then Read Below

Before you ask Questions to the forum Members, please Know that the information you provide is what
Helps those who are interested in helping you find your ancestors.

Meaning~> Have you provided Names and Places of birth? Local Parish they might have attended , names
of siblings * if able* . Any and All information Pertaining to this individual/s you are researching is also helpful
to those trying to help you locate your family.

We all know how frustrating and hard genealogy can be. it is equally hard for us to help you without this information and
might result in no response to your post. We dont want that to happen.

Thanks for Understanding and Good Luck in all your searches.
Polish forum Members/Fellow Researchers.

Just a FYI

For those researching the US 1940 Cencus will be online on Ancestry.com its well worth the money if you cannot find
your ancestors in other websites.


polishmama 3 | 281    
8 Mar 2012  #2

I think you should also mention that the person asking for help should first trace back their existing family history and be absolutely sure on spelling, if at all possible. Since sometimes people come on here and aren't even sure how to spell the name.
TheOther 5 | 3,098    
8 Mar 2012  #3

And please don't tell us that your ancestors were born in Poland if they lived in the area between 1772 and 1919. Genealogy is about historical facts, not fiction and wishful thinking.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,297    
8 Mar 2012  #4

historical facts

Partitioned Poland was still Poland but under foriegn occupation. That is the fact. My great-grandparents were born in occupied Poland.
polishmama 3 | 281    
8 Mar 2012  #5

So, to clarify, bc I am not aware of what was discussed, people should list the occupying country of that time in their inquiry, yes? Which, putting aside pride, is what would be on documents and therefore, what the searching party would need to know? Am I correct?
TheOther 5 | 3,098    
8 Mar 2012  #6

Misinterpretation of history, bending facts, or wishful thinking has no place in genealogy. If you start doing that you will never understand the political and social environment of the time.

Most immigration documents for example list the country of origin, not the ethnicity, so yes - nationality is important.
polishmama 3 | 281    
8 Mar 2012  #7

Got it. Thanks for clarification.
OP Patrycja19 63 | 2,703    
21 Mar 2012  #8

1772 and 1919.

The First Partition of Poland, which the Poles proved incapable of resisting, was decided on August 5, 1772. Two decades later, Russian and Prussian troops entered Poland again and the Second Partition was signed on January 23, 1793. Austria did not participate in the Second Partition. The Third Partition of Poland took place on October 24, 1795, as soon as the Polish Kościuszko Uprising was defeated. With this partition, the independent Polish state ceased to exist.[1]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland

so in between the Partitions taking place Poland was still Poland until the had fully taken over by the third Partition.

yes, lets base our findings on facts , between 1772 and 1795 Prior to Polands defeat your ancestors did live in What was called
POLAND until the third Partition and so all we need now is a area Map showing which Partitions were no longer considered Poland
From those dates up until Oct 24, 1795.

but Now it hit me why so many Polish left,, I will use this in my own family history book.

As a result of the Partitions, Poles were forced to seek a change of status quo in Europe.[13][14] Polish poets, politicians, noblemen, writers, artists, many of whom were forced to emigrate (thus the term Great Emigration) became the revolutionaries of the 19th century, as desire for freedom and liberty became one of the defining parts of Polish romanticism.

a Summed up version is : Europe screwed them over!
TheOther 5 | 3,098    
21 Mar 2012  #9

Prior to Polands defeat your ancestors did live in What was called POLAND until the third Partition and so all we need now is a area Map showing which Partitions were no longer considered Poland

It depends at what time Poland lost territory and wether your ancestors lived in that area or not. Polish lands that came to Prussia after the first partition for example cannot be counted as Poland anymore. Territory that was annexed by Russia after the second partition was not part of Poland anymore from that moment on. The where and when is important.
Next Generation    
23 Mar 2012  #10

For those who are searching their families from United States of America.

You can look up all states you think your relatives may be living back then or now. Good Luck!

ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_American
BPotanovichZask    
21 May 2013  #11

Today I gathered Much info on members of my family, & I never knew of, (or ), known any of them. Sad & true, & I don't know why. That's not the concern here. I do need help on maiden /married names for the females, and aside from Wloclawak, where in Poland are we from. On my Grandfather Walter's papers, it states he's from Poland/Russia.....? What does that mean? I need to now of his wife, my Grandma Helen....i.e. Maiden name Birthplace etc. Also Walters parents are John & Mary Szymanski, stating they are both from Germany. Answer that for me plz.! Thx.!!! They started here in N.Y. w/MANY children.
Polonius3 1,022 | 13,067    
26 May 2013  #12

Poland was divided up into three partitions or occupation zones ruled by Russia, Prussia and Austria from the late 1700s until 1918. It becmae a kibn of shortcut to speak of Russian Poland, Prussian or German Poland and Austrian or Austro-Hungarian Poland. The latter was also referred to as Galicja.
TheOther 5 | 3,098    
27 May 2013  #13

three partitions or occupation zones

Historically wrong, no matter how hard you try to rewrite history. The Polish territory was annexed by the three nations and the whole world acknowledged that status quo. Well, except for Turkey that is ... which was probably waiting for their own chance to invade...
Ziemowit 8 | 2,580    
27 May 2013  #14

And please don't tell us that your ancestors were born in Poland if they lived in the area between 1772 and 1919. Genealogy is about historical facts, not fiction and wishful thinking.

The Polish territory was annexed by the three nations and the whole world acknowledged that status quo.

How technically would you consider the genealogical sources of the period of Duchy of Warsaw that existed between 1709 and 1815? Would they be: Russian, Prussian or Austrian?

Duchy of Warsaw

flag

Territory and flag of the Duchy of Warsaw
TheOther 5 | 3,098    
27 May 2013  #15

Duchy of Warsaw that existed between 1709 and 1815?

You mean between 1807 and 1815.

How technically would you consider the genealogical sources of the period of Duchy of Warsaw

Genealogy should be completely neutral and free of politically motivated thinking (for example: the Duchy of Warsaw is not Poland, Prussia is not Germany). You simply file your ancestors under the name of the territory they were living in at the given time.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569    
28 May 2013  #16

The Polish territory was annexed by the three nations and the whole world acknowledged that status quo.

Fallacy of false attribution.

Polonius is correct. Poland was partitioned and occupied. This was done against the will and without the consent of Poland, thus there was no legitimacy. The mere fact that foreign powers 'acknowledged' matters is not in any way proof of same, and is as false as me saying that I now own your property and it is mine because some of my friends agree that it is now mine.
TheOther 5 | 3,098    
28 May 2013  #17

This was done against the will and without the consent of Poland, thus there was no legitimacy.

No consent for being conquered and annexed? Snicker ...
Since when are the weaker ones asked whether they want to become part of a larger and stronger empire? If we would follow your argument we would have to come to the conclusion that the Roman and British Empires (for example) were totally illegitimate and everything they stood for was pure evil. Well, the world doesn't work like that as we all know. Even if some nationalists of Polish descent would like to convince us of the opposite... :)
Ozi Dan 26 | 569    
28 May 2013  #18

If we would follow your argument we would have to come to the conclusion that the Roman and British Empires (for example) were totally illegitimate and everything they stood for was pure evil.

Fallacy of false analogy.

Well, the world doesn't work like that as we all know. Even if some nationalists of Polish descent would like to convince us of the opposite... :)

Straw man fallacy.

Now, how about addressing the real issue at hand, and without the cheek, fallacious commentary or thought terminating cliches.
Ziemowit 8 | 2,580    
28 May 2013  #19

The Polish territory was annexed by the three nations and the whole world acknowledged that status quo.

Genealogy should be completely neutral and free of politically motivated thinking (for example: the Duchy of Warsaw is not Poland, Prussia is not Germany).

So you should have written (bearing your detailed accuracy in mind): the Polish territory was in the course of the time between 1772 and 1919 annexed by the four nations [these having been (1) Russia, (2) Prussia, (3) Austria and (4) the Duchy of Warsaw]. Am I right in my thinking?
TheOther 5 | 3,098    
28 May 2013  #20

Fallacy of false analogy.

Nonsense, Dan, and you know it. Conquering and annexing territory has been a human trait since the times we lived on trees. You cannot seriously claim that expanding your own empire at the expense of another country is fine and normal as long as we don't talk about Poland. Poland disappeared from the maps and nobody cared - simple as that and nothing out of the ordinary. It happened a million times before over the centuries.

the Polish territory was in the course of the time between 1772 and 1919 annexed by the four nations

Some parts of Poland were annexed by Russia, Prussia and Austria-Hungary, with Napoleon installing a puppet state of the French Empire for a short period of time.
Ironside 43 | 8,225    
28 May 2013  #21

Poland disappeared from the maps and nobody cared - simple as that and nothing out of the ordinary. It happened a million times before over the centuries.

It wasn't nothing. One example of that happening.
TheOther 5 | 3,098    
28 May 2013  #22

One example of that happening

The Romans adding Greece to their republic in 146 B.C.
Ironside 43 | 8,225    
28 May 2013  #23

Ancient history do not apply here. We are talking about established major Christan country in Europe. I think that after middle ages the partition of Poland has been an event without precedence. I don't even think that countries concerned planned that this way but once they started there were certain dynamics involved that made that happened. \It was beginning of imperial era and of building and maintaining colonies, of the world without Christan values prevailing and without Papacy as a moral and political arbiter.

In short a new bold world without self restraint and without morality to guide its policies.
Slavery become attractive again and tyranny became an attractive option.
The world heralding progress regressed to a deep well of immorality dressed as the rule of reason. Fact the world progressed materially but became a moral pigsty to even the ground for Soviets and Nazi's.
Harry 78 | 13,533    
28 May 2013  #24

Ancient history do not apply here.

Ukraine disappeared from the maps (with a little help from her neighbours).
Ironside 43 | 8,225    
28 May 2013  #25

I would like to add that probably it is not fair to count Russia an Prussia as European countries. They both were oddities in Europe.

As for Austria that Germanic mountain kinglet can be regarded as a vulture among countries. Set on its Alpine perch and watching for the right time to snatch a carcass from stronger predators.
TheOther 5 | 3,098    
28 May 2013  #26

the partition of Poland has been an event without precedence

If you talk about Poland completely disappearing from the European maps, I agree. The simple annexation of territory was nothing out of the ordinary in Europe, though. Alsace-Lorraine and the like come to mind.
Ironside 43 | 8,225    
28 May 2013  #27

Ukraine disappeared from the maps (with a little help from her neighbours).

Come back when you are able to have a serious discussion here.

f you talk about Poland completely disappearing from the European maps, I agree

That is what I'm talking about.
delphiandomine 82 | 15,963    
28 May 2013  #28

It wasn't nothing. One example of that happening.

Austria. Czechoslovakia. Estonia. Latvia. Lithuania. Montenegro.

The list is endless. Trying to (yet again) spread the myth that only Poland has suffered is utter nonsense.

If you talk about Poland completely disappearing from the European maps, I agree.

The Kingdom of Montenegro might disagree.

Ukraine disappeared from the maps (with a little help from her neighbours).

Can't say that Harry, it might imply that Poland sold people.
TheOther 5 | 3,098    
28 May 2013  #29

The Kingdom of Montenegro might disagree.

Can you elaborate? The National Assembly of Podgorica and the union with Serbia are not really comparable, if I understand the Wikipedia article correctly.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Montenegro#World_War_I
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Uprising
delphiandomine 82 | 15,963    
28 May 2013  #30

Can you elaborate? The National Assembly of Podgorica and the union with Serbia are not really comparable, if I understand the Wikipedia article correctly.

I think, unless I've got my history mixed up - that National Assembly was a puppet parliament.

During the Paris Peace Conference, Nicholas I's representative and future prime minister of Montenegro (de jure) General Gvozdenović attacked this election law: "Mere villages had been permitted to elect four deputies, while entire districts had only sent one or two representatives".[3] Other problems with the election were that voting was made without the voters' lists,[4] and that the Serbian army didn't allow the opponents of union to enter Montenegro before elections ended [4]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podgorica_Assembly




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