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Poland in the European Union. Polexit?


TheOther 5 | 3,531    
12 Sep 2018  #271
Chump change

Germany imported $10 billion worth of Russian gas in 2017 for its own consumption.

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-25/germany-s-10-billion-gas-bill-shows-perks-of-close-russia-ties

Out of Germany but what percentage want to dissolve NATO ?

No idea. Looking at the popular vote in the last election (Social Democrats, Greens and ex Commies), I would guess around 30 to 40%.
Atch 16 | 2,558    
12 Sep 2018  #272
Really weird speech by Duda at an event in Lezajsk, describing the EU as "an imaginary community from which we don't gain much". I wonder if it's his way of trying to show that he's not JK's puppet seeing as His Nibs grudgingly acknowledged the other day that "membership of the EU is the shortest way to obtain equality in the level of life, wages, comfort of life."

Duda added "Of course we have the right to have expectations towards Europe - especially towards the Europe that left us to be the prey of the Russians in 1945". Will the martyrology never end?
delphiandomine 87 | 16,799    
12 Sep 2018  #273
Really weird speech by Duda at an event in Lezajsk, describing the EU as "an imaginary community from which we don't gain much".

It's a very weird speech, and seems to have resulted in a huge backlash against him. Those words will almost certainly come back to haunt him, even though they were clearly aimed at TVP-watching villagers.
TheOther 5 | 3,531    
12 Sep 2018  #274
especially towards the Europe that left us to be the prey of the Russians in 1945

Speaking of Yalta: too bad for Duda that part of Europe will be leaving the EU soon...
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,793    :-(
12 Sep 2018  #275
Eu is simply a sugar daddy to millions of poles. Most poles could care less about other members problems if it doesnt affect us. We entered for economic reasons, not to have a foreign capital meddle in our domestic political affairs while allowing other members do the exact same things but face no criticism because theyre more pro eu. Weve had enough of rule from afar in our history with russia germany austria deciding what goes on in our lands. As long as the money keeps coming and theres free movement poles will be pro eu. Once that changes i doubt poles will be as enthusiastic about the eu. If theres one thing poles value its independence and sovereignty. Poles aren't going to let brussels or germany dictate what we do and neither is the government that poles elected based on campaign promises.
mafketis 16 | 6,145    
12 Sep 2018  #276
Eu is simply a sugar daddy to millions of poles.

And someone who gets money from a sugar daddy is a vvhore, is that what you think of Poland?
Rich Mazur 5 | 2,078    
12 Sep 2018  #277
That would be prostitution and only if a happy ending is part of the deal. VVhore is a character defect.
Dougpol1 26 | 2,108    
12 Sep 2018  #278
Maf - Dirk is just another example of the lazy way of thinking. Oh good! Is that for me?? What happens when the authorities open the cages in a zoo? A great many of the animals decline to leave.

Poles had 40 years of having their decisions made for them and so a populist Duda has to act Devils' advocate that Poland is that super race that can do it all by itself (or he likes to imagine that it at least has a similar GDP to that of the UK and can actually choose to self-destruct)

Just as in communism, it's all those damn imperialists' fault!
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,793    :-(
12 Sep 2018  #279
And someone who gets money from a sugar daddy is a vvhore, is that what you think of Poland?

Everyone has their price. And considering poland is a country not a person it wouldnt be possible. But even if she were, id call her smart for getting tens of billions out of the EU. I dont see anything wrong with ****** personally. I think theyre street smart for using what they can to get gullible people to pay for them. Even despite the EUs whining about rule of law theyre not going to do sh1t about suspending pl voting right plus the most they threatened to cut the cohesion funds os 23%, and thatll be years from now after the 2019 EP elections which i guaruntee you nationalists and anti eu people will win a ton of seats
Crow 145 | 7,373    
12 Sep 2018  #280
And someone who gets money from a sugar daddy

is rather wise. Wise to take back what in centuries earlier western Europeans stolen from Polish ancestors. Wise to see EU as decent cow.

Actually, when I think better, Poles don`t need to hurry to abandon EU. On the long run yes but urgently only if Serbs are excluded from EU. So, on the short run, Poland needs to support fastening of Serbia`s EU accession. Then, to form closest possible relations with Serbia within EU. And finally, when the moment come to abandon EU madhouse, Poland should use Serbia as shield while moving out from EU. Let stupid western Europeans stub themselves on Serbian d***, if they just dare to move against Polish-Serbian coalition (every evil empire learned how are Serbians bad luck- too much powerful interests behind them- especially now).

Serbia already sharpening d***. We know they would come. They like to stub themselves. They like it hard.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,793    :-(
12 Sep 2018  #281
Actually, when I think better, Poles don`t need to hurry to abandon EU.

Not at all. They just need to get as much money as possible from eu and split, then develop ties with organizations and countries that respect sovereignty and independence. Thats why i love china. Best people to do business with. Fhey dont give a sh1t about politics or some whiny liberals complainimg about human rights and nosy journos. Money doesn't care od your countey is run by a dictator or a eurocrat or whoever. Thats why you see china making deeper and deeper ties with africa and many east european countries especially hungary
Tacitus 1 | 711    
12 Sep 2018  #282
@Ironside

Germany are pushing/supporting the EU interfering into internal Polish affairs that has no legal grounds nor legitimacy to do so.

It is not Germany pushing the EU here, it is the EU doing this. And the EU does have every legal justification to do so. When Poland joined the EU, it agreed to its' principles and the various treaties that are the foundation of the relationship between the EU and its' member states.

You are using cases here which you paint as similar and which are certainly not. Try stop pretending that the logging of the forest in Poland is comparable to any ecological project in the EU. Everybody who is not willfully blind knows that not simply a few trees were knocked down that were sick.

And it is certainly not in any way comparable to Nord Stream. There are risks involved yes, like any other project, but it is not like we ban other pipeline projects if they are deemed safe. And yes, Poland could be affected if there ever were an accident, but the same could happen if one the gas shipments from the USA ever had an accident on its' way to Poland. And statistically speaking, pipelines are more secure than shipments anyway.

They can get away with bending EU laws, breaking it, or with doing whatever they deem right.

This is blatantly false. There are cases when the EU is more lenient towards its' members but this is pretty much the rule. Bruessels tries to avoid confrontation with other countries at all cost, with Poland being a prime benefactor. The patience shown with Warsaw until now is staggering.
Crow 145 | 7,373    
12 Sep 2018  #283
I like to think of EU as of cow. I understand Poles.

Thats why i love china. Best people to do business with.

Chinese invested more then 2 mlrd US dollars in Serbia in last two months.

BDW, did you heard that China plans to buy some 7.000 passenger planes in next 20 years. Prepared some 1.200 mlrd US dollars for that. Imagine that. No sh** with China.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,793    :-(
12 Sep 2018  #284
Idk bout you all but id rather be the ho getting money than the dumb fuckin idiot getting finessed...

Man crow id rather Poland toss her lot with china. Hungary already has one of largest trade deals in eu with china. The chinese dont care about politics they only care about making money. Those dudes don't **** around. They are the new world colonizers. Theyre already colonizing all of africa and with one belt one road their clout will stretch into europe.

@Crow
Oh im aware of the deals china has with the former yugp countries.
Crow 145 | 7,373    
12 Sep 2018  #285
When western Europe blocked Serbia, Serbia opened doors to China and Russia. It was initial combination. Then we mediated between Russia and Israel and Jews came. Then we mediated between Russia and Japan and Japan came. Then we mediated between China and India and India came. Then we mediated between Russia and US and US came.

It all proved to be very good cure for western European domination. That is also good recipe for independence. It is as closest to independence as one can get.
G (undercover)    
12 Sep 2018  #286
It is not Germany pushing the EU here, it is the EU doing this.

Just like it wasn't the Soviets that invaded Czechoslovakia, It was the Warsaw Pact ! Come on...
cms neuf - | 540    
12 Sep 2018  #287
Hungary has the same trade deal with China as the other 27 countries have - thats how the EU works.
Crow 145 | 7,373    
12 Sep 2018  #288
EU now punishing Hungary. Will be Hunexit?
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,793    :-(
12 Sep 2018  #289
@cms neuf

Countries can sign their own trade deals and partnerships outside the eu, similar to germany and russias nord stream 2

xinhuanet.com/english/2017-11/26/c_136780054.htm

forbes.com/sites/davidhutt/2017/09/05/chinas-relationship-with-hungary-is-hitting-a-rocky-patch/
cms neuf - | 540    
12 Sep 2018  #290
No they cant. Tarriffs and non tarriff barriers have to be identical for all 28 countries.
Tacitus 1 | 711    
12 Sep 2018  #291
Just like it wasn't the Soviets that invaded Czechoslovakia, It was the Warsaw Pact ! Come on...

Blaming Germany is easier than accepting that the democracy in Poland is perceived as under threat by the other EU member states. This is not something Germany had to push for, or could be attributed to a German initiative.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,793    :-(
12 Sep 2018  #292
@cms neuf

That doesnt mean they cant strike deals with respect to eu tariffs. Also tariffs only apply for imported goods which are only one aspect and actually quite a small one of a developed economies gdp. Besides you really think obran gives a sh1t what the eu thinks? Hes buddy buddy with putin and china has more fdi in hungary amd trade than any other central/eadlstern eu nation.

Rofl thats cute. Next youll say that 'rule of law' is in jeapordy in poland just because the EC and some unelected eurocrats said so. Meanwhile the countries they represent - belgium, france, germany etc have real rule of law problems - islamic terror, tons of rapes, no go zones where firdt responders themselves say they have trouble operating and wont go in without a ton of backup, not to mention increasing violent crime, arsons, years long states of emergency. Now those are real rule of law issues, as quite frankly in many of the no go zones the countries cannot effectively enforce the law amd even they admit this.
johnny reb 16 | 3,429    
13 Sep 2018  #293
or could be attributed to a German initiative.

After losing two world wars the Germans some how achieved their war aims.
Today is very similar to what Germany planned in WW1 & WW2.
Germany is the most powerful and has the biggest population in the E.U. and the entire E.U. is bound to it by a increasing tighter political and economic union.

Youcan't have one without the other to build an empire.
To do that Germany had to get the divided territories having free trade, deny their competition, have some outside threats, and walla, you have a E.U. under your domination, a German fantasy which has never left them.

I don't think Poland wants any part of it.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,793    :-(
13 Sep 2018  #294
Poland wants trade with Germany no doubt. It does NOT want Merkel or any eurocrat in Brussels either to stick their nose in our domestic affairs.

You ask Poles what they think of the EU and most will tell you they're pro-EU. However, they will also say that when they joined they never imagined that a decade later the EU would be trying to take Poland to the EU court and putting them in front of a commission because of the way Polish people voted. The types of things that PiS is doing are not much different than what other countries have done. The court reforms Poland wants are similar to Spains. EU doesn't complain about far more ecological damage caused by Nord Stream 2 than some trees being chopped down on our territory. The EU didn't criticize Spain's government for cracking down when Catalonians wanted a referendum and the police brutally beat people. The previous PO government also clamped down on PiS people, fired journalists sympathetic to PiS, stuffed the courts, silenced opposition, etc but the EU did nothing. The other countries and leaders get away with doing the same or even worse things than PiS's Poland did simply because they are pro-EU and not euroskeptics.

And they talk about 'rule of law' being in jeopardy - that's my all time favorite and never fails to make me laugh. Yeah theres a problem with the rule of law when in France there's hundreds of no-go zones the police can't enter without being immediately attacked. There's no problem with regular Islamic terror attacks and stabbings by migrants. No problem of rule of law when France is under years of state of emergency thanks to problems the migrants caused. No problems when Jews are chased down by migrants, attacked and synagogues vandalized.Migrants even robbed churches now that's just a huge low. And then some idiots agree to remove crosses from churches because it 'offends' the migrants.... smdh...

Then people who lord over the EU that Polish citizens never voted for have the gall to say '60k fascists marched in Warsaw' because they don't like our independence day parade and expressing our desire to be sovereign and independent. Merkel's the same way - the woman HATES the idea of Germany as an independent nation state. She won't even wave the flag. Merkel allows millions of third worlders to flood Europe thanks to her open door policy, says she regrets her decisions and would handle it differently, then demand that Poland show 'solidarity' for her mistake, and the other eurocrats who exacerbated the migrant crisis by letting so many people who aren't refugees come in, and take in people we never asked for and then threaten to punish us because we refuse to take in people because some other country's politician and EU leaders who Poles didn't vote for said so. Thankfully they've since given up on that as they see their redistribution program is a dead end and a fantasy as very few EU countries want to purposely shoot themselves in the foot and bring in more Merkel burdens and problems.

EU does not understand or respect our history and our Polish identity. We've been off the map for over a century, given basically no help from the UK despite a mutual defense treaty which we ended up even holding up despite they completely abandoning us and left to be ruled over by the Soviets. When we won our independence just 30 years ago we're not going to trade in being ruled by Moscow for being ruled by Brussels.

Duda's speech calling the EU an imaginary community, explaining how our Polish roots dictate our mentality, how the 500 z program helps families, how the government and country now works for the people and the courts aren't corrupt and the system isn't meant for only the elites

youtube.com/watch?v=XnP6NbwaY7c

A EU leader speaking in a crowd of all vanilla faces - a sight that's becoming rarer and rarer in Europe now...

few key points from the speech for our non PL speakers around the end when Duda talks about Poland...

we have a right to rule ourselves and decide the shape of Poland....the youth must get involved in politics and shape Poland the way they want the type of Poland they imagine... community is important but here, in Poland... concerned about Polish affairs, because those are the affairs that are most important to us, once we figure out our issues we can start solving European (EU) problems, till then let us be and let us fix our country, because that is what's most important... (applause) we believe that is the desire and expectation of the majority of Poles..
Tacitus 1 | 711    
13 Sep 2018  #295
@johnny reb

Today is very similar to what Germany planned in WW1 & WW2

Yeah no. Modern Europe consists now of democracies that coexist peaceful and treat each others as equals. In which even small countries can have an impact if they play thdir cards. That is certainly not how the Kaiser envisioned the future of the continent, let alone Hitler.

Germany is bound to the EU not the other way around. That was the whole point of the project. Germany is currently prospering because it has realized that having a peaceful, prosperous and friendly Europe is perfectly suited to its' strengths.

German fantasy which has never left them.

It is not Germany that is clinging to past fantasies. The only people who are stuck with them who like to narrow everything back to WWI and WWII.
mafketis 16 | 6,145    
13 Sep 2018  #296
In other news the European Parliament just passed article 13 (aka the war against memes)

A bunch of technocrats with no understanding of human nature or the internet passing legislation that they neither understand or will be affected by themselves....

Brexit is starting to look smarter by the day...
Atch 16 | 2,558    
13 Sep 2018  #297
the European Parliament

Maf the European Parliament is elected by the people of Europe. They're ordinary MEPs, not technocrats. We, the people of Europe, elect them and in the same way that elected governments around the world have to be given a measure of trust by the electorate, so it works with the European Parliament.

As to these Articles, only time will tell the results. Anyway if legislation proves unworkable or unsuccessful it can always be amended or replaced.
Ironside 47 | 9,187    
13 Sep 2018  #298
And the EU does have every legal justification to do so.

Which article of the treaty gives them that right?

It is not Germany pushing

yes, sure Germany is all against that. Don't talk crap here, just be honest.

Bruessels tries to avoid confrontation with other countries at all cost

Should have tried even harder. Taking sides in the internal political process, butting in into thing that are outside of the legal scope all that by unelected morons in which one is an acholic with a history of laundering dirty money and the other is just nobody in his won country, with support below 2%.

Do you think they are doing it of they own volition? Think again.

As for the ecology - is that your idea of a joke? a pipeline with oil under the sea is not ecological and few trees Bavaria is not ecological but few trees in Poland it is. Is that depends on policies or geography that ecology thingy - one start to wonder.
mafketis 16 | 6,145    
13 Sep 2018  #299
As to these Articles, only time will tell the results.

So why don't you give the Polish government the same benefit of a doubt?

To be clear I dislike PiS and its agenda, but everything you've said about the EP could be used as an argument to let the PiS program play out...

Why the double standard?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,128    
13 Sep 2018  #300
That doesnt mean they cant strike deals with respect to eu tariffs.

I don't think so....all things trade will be negotiated in Brussels, as one! That's the reason for being a trade union...the reason for joining a trade union.

Trump has problems to accept that too...he always wants to talk with Germany. German insider said it was extremely difficult to explain to him how the EU works...and it is doubtful he has understood that yet seeing how he singles out Germany for economical attacks...



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