The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 306

The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak


dolnoslask
24 Feb 2016 #211
"Politicians and journalists know a bit more, maybe 20-25%." Thanks For the insight and depth of reply, Is their a similar thing to a UK D notice in Poland?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
24 Feb 2016 #212
UK D notice

There probably is some such procedure (because every country has to have contingency plans) but I don't know what it is called. It may just be an informal practice of someone higher up phoning a TV station, publisher, etc. and "strongly suggesting "that some item should be suppressed. IPN published a book on the Wałęsa-Bolek issue but for 8 years of the PO regime it was kept in IPN storage and not circulated. Was it the PM's office, culture minister, interior ministry that intervened? Who knows?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
24 Feb 2016 #213
Well, well, well.

Two of the documents released by the IPN recently just so happen to have been already judged to be fakes in 1990.

witter.com/Exen/status/702403724703092737/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

This rather destroys the credibility of the IPN on the matter.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
24 Feb 2016 #214
judged to be fake

The same holds true for your link. Apparently fake because it's a dead end.

Bolek story

Deputy culture min. Jarosław Sellin wants the homes of all former PZPR bigshots checked to see if they like Kiszczak are also illegally storing state documents.

How is it that no-one since 1989 ever thought to issue such an appeal or order to all members of the PZPR ruling class. It is inconceivable that Kiszcak alone nicked official interior ministry dossiers and treated them like his private property. Why did IPN lie down on the job? If it wasn't for Pani Kiszczakowa, no-one would have even given the files a thought.

Now here comes the fun part. Let's watch for the Michnik reaction (probably along the lines of "fascist-style raids on poor innoccent commies") which will be parroted in one way or another by Delph and his followers. Bring out the popcorn, crack open some beers, sit back and enjoy! The show is about to begin!

akty.interia.pl/raporty/raport-dokumenty-kiszczaka/opinie/news-jaroslaw-sellin-dla-rzeczpospolitej-nalezy-przeszukac-mieszk,nId,2150853?hkt=facts-1#iwa_source=bloczek_poczta
Kennyboy 1 | 47
25 Feb 2016 #215
Don't consider myself an expert on Polish history/politics but thought of a couple of questions that maybe someone can answer.

I would think that the best time to destroy someone's reputation would be at the height of their power as the ''bad news'' has a greater impact, why would the documents not ''released'' say in the late 80s during the run up to the presidential election?

Where were the documents kept for the last 26 years, in a box under the bed at Kiszczak's house?

Why would he have them?

Who else may have some?

And of course finally, they were so important to national security that the widow only wanted some ''cash'' for them.

Hoping someone can help.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
25 Feb 2016 #216
Why would he have them?

One hypothesis is that Kiszczak held on ot them as security. Having something on members of the new regime would enhance his bargaining power if a conflict emerged. In 1989 no-one really knew how things would turn out. Decommunisation could have landed former communist big shots in jail. Amid the general uncertainty of post-Roundtable Poland he apparently had no problem taking the paperwork home. He kept the dossiers in cupboards in this home.

Kiszczak's own version was that he wanted to protect Solidarity and Wałęsa from attacks. He wanted the files to be published 5 years after Wałęsa's death at the earliest. Other promient members of the PZPR ancien régime may well also be storing state documents or know where they are stored.

PZPR

Those who weren't in Poland in 1989 should watch TVP1 documentary about Magdalenka and the Roundtable. It's started at 8.30 PM on Thursday.
Ktos 16 | 440
26 Feb 2016 #217
Decommunisation could have landed former communist big shots in jail

I hope they will get to Michnik in due time, I am sure he also has done many dirty things during that period and later to this day included, that would be hopefully the end of Gazeta Wyborcza, good riddance.
Librarius - | 91
26 Feb 2016 #218
Decommunisation could have landed former communist big shots in jail.

Let sleeping bolshies of the past lie in peace. As for the living ones, they, as always, are in majority and hunting for whatever easy spoils they caught sight of.

There are and always will be bolshies in the lead of a witch-hunt for whatever easy victim. This time it is a season for commies and so-called islamists. Beware of being a bolshie of today.

You can check if you are not a fully authorised bolshie of today if you make an experiment and put in place of commies or so-called islamist, let's say Jews or a Poles. Thus you will see if you'll end up being called an anti-Semite or hater of the Polish people. If so then you are a bolshie.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
29 Feb 2016 #219
Interview with Bishop Pieronek

tokfm.pl/Tokfm/1,103454,19696444,bp-pieronek-o-teczkach-bolka-nachalne-oskarzenie-obrzucanie.html#MTstream

I can speak, but personally, not as a church. I am a trained lawyer and I am sensitive to the fact that the law should be preserved always and everywhere. Lech Walesa was tried and acquitted, it is a legal act and you have to stick to it.

He goes on to explain that if new materials have come to light, then Wałęsa should have the ability to review them before they were released to the public. He also then makes it clear that people throwing stones at Wałęsa now should be looking at their own conscience.

The silence of the Church on this issue is quite remarkable. Wałęsa is a known and devout Catholic who practices what he preaches (even if it gets him into trouble) - and many of the people throwing stones are people known to have only discovered the Church in 1989 or later. Some of them are ex-PZPR members that openly carried out the will of the Communist regime - yet they've got the nerve to abuse and insult Wałęsa today.
singingfalls 3 | 50
29 Feb 2016 #220
Among the Polish Americans Wałęsa is a folk hero and none of this is coming out in the news media here as of yet. What I know is that Poland is no longer under the Soviet regime and regardless of political chicanery, the victors always write the history. It has always been that way. Big deal. Why are you killing and throwing mud at the only Polish hero of modern times. Like it says in the good book, "the foolish woman destroys her own home." Oh and yes, this, "A house divided can not stand." Under oppression people do a lot of hard things. It doesn't mean much. Show me a political system that does not have its fair share of corruption and blood on its hands. Good luck with that. Most of the time when the politicos are rattling a sword in one place it is because they do not want you to look at another place. Live in peace if you can because has not always been that way and it will not always be that way.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
29 Feb 2016 #221
This joke was told to my father many years ago while he was in france training to be a priest. Yes that clearly didnt work out for him, but the joke was told by a Polish bishop and goes a long way to explaining the mentality of Poles and in part why some are acting the way they are towards Walesa.

The devil goes down to inspect the cauldrons full of bad people. Each nation has its own cauldron and its own two guards standing by the cauldron to ensure that anyone trying to climb out gets knocked back down.

The devil inspects each cauldron one by one. The French, the English , the German cauldron and so on. Everything seems in order but then he looks to the left and notices a cauldron with no guards beside it. He calls over one of the guards from the german caludron and asks why nobody is guarding that cauldron on the left. The guard tells him thats because its the Polish cauldron and whenever one of the Poles try to climb out, one of the other Poles inside pulls them back in, so there is no need for guards.
gregy741 5 | 1,529
29 Feb 2016 #222
finally Walesa and KOD found out whats happened.... Russian did this...Putin forged documents and secretly tossed em into Kiszczaks document box.:
wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,36474,title,dziejesienazywo-Lech-Walesa-wiemy-skad-sie-znalazly-te-papiery-To-nie-sa-papiery-z-kartonu-Kiszczaka,wid,18188100,wiadomosc.html
mafketis 34 | 11,899
29 Feb 2016 #223
whenever one of the Poles try to climb out, one of the other Poles inside pulls them back in, so there is no need for guards.

Indeed. Many who did not especially work against the communists felt embarassed and ashamed after the transition and so to soothe their conscience they have to tear down those who were on the front lines.... (I forget if there's a name for this but it's common after a country emerges from some kind of totalitarianism).
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
29 Feb 2016 #224
Sounds very familiar, especially among those that were sleeping until late on the 13th December 1981.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
29 Feb 2016 #225
why would the documents not ''released'' say in the late 80s during the run up to the presidential election?

Because commies would have lost them anyway. It was much better to "leader from behind" using that kind of documents.
singingfalls 3 | 50
29 Feb 2016 #226
Stockholm Syndrome

If there was a like button I would select "like" for this comment polishinvestor. But in my neighborhood we Poles stuck together most of the time. Not racists or ethnicists, just family. But even so, I am an old warrior, and when you are in a fox hole and the one next to you is not shooting at you, he is closer than a brother. I can tell you that these racial and political matters are the luxury of those who are not at war. When you are at war, any race or religion doesn't matter if he is on your side and he feels the same way. Divide and conquer, this is the tool that is used by the wicked to gain power. But I have this idealistic view of Poles even though I grew up in a tough neighborhood in a city of 5.5 million. There is something deep and humbling about our history. Maybe we will need to be humbled more?
gregy741 5 | 1,529
1 Mar 2016 #227
Maybe we will need to be humbled more?

yea...and wallow ourselves in lie like pig in sh.it to make us feel better.nice.
today i seen video of PO appointed IPN high official- historian..he said:
"why searching those home for those documents,and bother peoples?"its not nice"
imagine....a fkin historian saying that most important documents regarding most important part of Polands history should be destroyed and left alone cus is not fkin nice to bother people at their homes.PO idiot...what is he doing in IPN? what hes being paid for?PO pathology

Why are you killing and throwing mud at the only Polish hero of modern times.

didnt bother your guys when michnik and Walensas circles been sh.iting on cursed soldiers,pilecki,AK ect...for years,promoting Gross and them kinds of "historians"

now all the hysteria for "destroying hero"
Ktos 16 | 440
1 Mar 2016 #228
That will never been forgiven, Walesa is not to be forgiven for spitting at AK soldiers, the heros who saved our country from bigger disaster during war, Walesa is actually an enemy.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Mar 2016 #229
been sh.iting on cursed soldiers

Let us remember the more than five thousand civilians - men, women and children - brutally murdered by the so-called cursed soldiers, who will be celebrated for the next few days.

trybuna.eu/187-swieczek-na-1-marca-tyle-dzieci-zamordowali-wykleci
dolnoslask
1 Mar 2016 #230
Delph, others have their own celebrations see below.

justice4poland.com/2015/01/01/massacre-of-poles-celebrated-in-new-ukraine/
Ironside 51 | 11,339
1 Mar 2016 #231
Let us remember

Shame on you delph for propagating propaganda of the totalitarian regime that occupied Poland. Nice to know you side with occupiers against Poles.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Mar 2016 #232
Delph, others have their own celebrations see below.

Lets not forget though, that the Polish government isn't ETHNICALLY Polish.

credible source right there, man.

Shame on you delph for propagating propaganda of the totalitarian regime that occupied Poland.

Notice how it's immediately propaganda if it doesn't suit the correct narrative.
gregy741 5 | 1,529
1 Mar 2016 #233
trybuna.eu

i see propaganda that come from stalinist regime suit you well when you nee it...
you are pathetic when you need to use NKWD propaganda as argument in discussion...stupid really
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Mar 2016 #234
See, you just can't stop with the abuse, can you?
gregy741 5 | 1,529
1 Mar 2016 #235
i will,i promise ,as soon as you stop with your idiocy
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
1 Mar 2016 #236
Ah, so you want censorship now. How very communist.

Please focus on topic
gregy741 5 | 1,529
2 Mar 2016 #237
peace nobel prize laureate,traitor Walensa calling for civil war.Die Welt: there you have it
gregy741 5 | 1,529
2 Mar 2016 #239
fuktard,traitor,thief,crook.also called Bolek by his friends..member of repression cell called SB,used by totalitarian regime to prosecute,kill,and torture people.

here are the images of place where Walesa was "imprisoned" by commies...enjoy:

google.pl/search?q=o%C5%9Brodek+ar%C5%82am%C3%B3w&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwirvK-Dg6LLAhVBIJoKHe3KBCoQ_AUIBygC&dpr=1

and here from A. Gwiazda prison..he was held in worse condition than criminals:

Gwiazda Poland
Harry
2 Mar 2016 #240
here are the images of place where Walesa was "imprisoned" by commies

No, those are photos of the spanking new resort built on the site of the former resort of the PZPR Politburo. I've stayed at both and much preferred the old place. Better luck with your next image search, and on that note, perhaps you'd care to post some images of the place where The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski was locked up by the commies?


Home / News / The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.