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The dossier of TW "Bolek" - Poland's IPN assisted by police enters the home of the late general Kiszczak


gregy741 4 | 1,204
2 Mar 2016 #241
The Dear Leader Chairman Kaczynski was locked up by the commies?

he wasnt held in luxurious hotel like traitor Bolek..
Bolek drunk 289 bottles of vodka during his "imprisonment"

Bolek finally admitted collaboration,he said he didnt collaborated with SB but SB collaborated with him...loool
clever beast...looks like SB was working for Walesa..
more Bolek more..please
delphiandomine 83 | 17,795
2 Mar 2016 #242
Bolek drunk 289 bottles of vodka during his "imprisonment"

Your source of that is the SB, who would have had great reason to destroy his reputation by portraying him as a drunkard and an alcoholic.

he wasnt held in luxurious hotel like traitor Bolek..

Hahaha. You're actually repeating exactly what the SB wanted people to believe. They kept him in Arłamów for three reasons :

1) It was already secured, as it was a PZPR facility. They had everything needed to keep him isolated and away from everyone else.
2) It was a long, long, long way away from Gdańsk. A quick look on Google Maps tells us that it's roughly an 11-12 hour drive from the Gdańsk shipyard to Arłamow, and roads are in much better condition these days than they were back then.

3) They wanted to propagate the myth of Wałęsa being kept in luxurious conditions while everyone else suffered. Basic communist propaganda.
Harry
2 Mar 2016 #243
Bolek drunk 289 bottles of vodka during his "imprisonment"

Thanks for bringing that one up. The claim from the IPN is: two bottles of spirytus, 289 bottles of vodka, 158 bottles of wine, 59 bottles of cognac, 238 bottles of champagne and 1,115 bottles of beer. You want us to believe that Walesa got through all that lot while locked up? You must think that our gullibility is even worse than your ability to use google.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
2 Mar 2016 #244
in the light of Walesa new comment about SB collaboration with him,,,its possible that he wasnt drinking vodka...perhaps ,IT was vodka who was drinking him...just my thoughts.

and at this very moment,the sun was evolving around the earth,and outside his "prison" window the trees were chirping on birds
delphiandomine 83 | 17,795
2 Mar 2016 #245
The claim from the IPN is: two bottles of spirytus, 289 bottles of vodka, 158 bottles of wine, 59 bottles of cognac, 238 bottles of champagne and 1,115 bottles of beer. You want us to believe that Walesa got through all that lot while locked up?

Which would have been the perfect thing to leak to broken and beaten Solidarność members in 1984-5 as it would have shown them that Wałęsa was living the life of a luxury drunkard while they were kept in pretty crappy conditions. Knowing the Polish character, the SB would've instilled doubt and jealousy in the mind of those people.

Got any pictures to hand of the place where he was kept? From what I know, it was nothing more than a typical commie-era osrodek.
Harry
2 Mar 2016 #246
Got any pictures to hand of the place where he was kept?

Certainly, here's one:

Walesa in luxury

Here's another:

More luxury
delphiandomine 83 | 17,795
2 Mar 2016 #247
Not exactly what one would call luxury, even by Warsaw Pact standards.

Looks exactly like some crappy osrodek that caters to retired workers from ZUS. If that's "luxury" to gregy, well..
Harry
2 Mar 2016 #248
Not exactly what one would call luxury, even by Warsaw Pact standards.

This is the door to his room, you can see the luxury dripping from it.
When I was there in 2007 the staff said that the door and bathroom were original but the room had been renovated (I made use of the toilet). When the new hotel was built the room was completely transformed and turned into a replica.

door
gregy741 4 | 1,204
2 Mar 2016 #249
hes bedroom...scary secret police torture chamber:



delphiandomine 83 | 17,795
2 Mar 2016 #250
You really don't get it Gregy, do you?

The whole point was not to keep Wałęsa in something from the 1950's - the point was to keep him isolated and to let everyone know that he was being kept in a Party resort, so that people like you would believe that he was actually a spy and he would have no means of proving otherwise.

Very clever tactic really, given that people like you still repeat the Communist myths as if they were fact.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
2 Mar 2016 #251
one interesting fack is,,,SB used new innovative torture technique on Walesa.
they exposed his body to vast amount of luxurious food and champagnes,which resulted in massive body weight gain..the idea was to put pressure on Walesas skeleton structure,and make him unable to jump over fences.which we know is the key strategy in bringing down commies.i think

repeat the Communist myths as if they were fact.

like the one about walesa fighting commies?
he was too busy fighting with obesity,he developed in "prison"
Harry
2 Mar 2016 #252
hes bedroom

Actually that's the room his SB guards used, his was the other room in the 'apartment', note the position of the door. Also, that's the 'modern' furniture which was there when I visited in 2007; the furniture which was actually there then can be seen in the photos from the time.

let everyone know that he was being kept in a Party resort, so that people like you would believe that he was actually a spy and he would have no means of proving otherwise.

Just as other Solidarity leaders were kept in Party resorts in Darlowo and Goldap.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
2 Mar 2016 #253
. Also, that's the 'modern' furniture which was there when I visited in 2007; the furniture which was actually there then can be seen in the photos from the time.

you really been there before redevelopment?hows was atmosphere there?just curious

ust as other Solidarity leaders were kept in Party resorts in Darlowo and Goldap.

huh?gwiazda and walentynowicz as well?how about lech kaczynski?
youtube.com/watch?v=Lx6pFs5cSWo
they were kept in prisons and sh.itholes like this...and feed with furosemid not champagne
Harry
2 Mar 2016 #254
gwiazda and walentynowicz as well?

Walentynowicz was in Goldap, I'm completely sure about that.

you really been there before redevelopment

Yep, I'd post photos if the limit wasn't a maximum of 100k. The location is very good but it's a long long way from anywhere and the roads are terrible. The accommodation was pretty bad and the food even worse. The staff didn't care at all but that worked out well as they preferred us to drink beer we'd brought with us than walk all the way to the terrace themselves to give us beer. It's by far the nicest of the three 'prisons' used for Solidarity leaders I've been to but I'd have gone off my rocker if I'd been there for as long as Walesa was there.

walentynowicz

Here's a photo of her "prison":

prison

It's in a part of the world that is as nice as the one Walesa was locked up in:

Goldap
gregy741 4 | 1,204
3 Mar 2016 #255
"for 6 months they were torturing me...they tried everything: vodka,chickens,champagne,caviar....it didnt brake me...i ate everything"
TW Bolek
delphiandomine 83 | 17,795
3 Mar 2016 #256
How childish. Shouldn't you go back to your claims that Walentynowicz was kept in harsh conditions?

The location is very good but it's a long long way from anywhere and the roads are terrible.

That was exactly the point, I think. Isn't there also a runway there, making it even more suitable for keeping such a high profile person? I've got a feeling that the entire area was also fenced off.

I know that Ustrzyki Dolne was an absolute dump back in the PRL. I seem to recall that Rural Solidarity came from there, because conditions for peasants had become so terrible there that there was no real alternative but to go on strike.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
4 Mar 2016 #257
wow..we see new line of defense employed by Walensa defenders..all media report some several assassination attempts of Walensa by SB...hahahaha..SB dont try they kill if they want.Popieluszko and 100-ts others didnt need 5 attempts.

honestly,why would they kill their own and best informer?
the only agency back then,with the motives to assassinate Walensa was Totalizator sportowy. me think
delphiandomine 83 | 17,795
4 Mar 2016 #258
Popieluszko and 100-ts others didnt need 5 attempts.

Oh dear. You really have no idea about history, do you? Just like your film knowledge, your historical knowledge is also lacking.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Popie%C5%82uszko#Assassination

A car accident was set up to kill Jerzy Popiełuszko on 13 October 1984 but he evaded it.

Try harder.
gregy741 4 | 1,204
4 Mar 2016 #259
okey,i give you that one.
still,them silly stories ,invented to defend Bolek are laughable.they go like that:
i heard from one guy who heard from another that someone heard something about killing bolek..pathetic attempt to push some bs down the ppl throat
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
6 Mar 2016 #260
No wonder, a lot was invested in the whole myth.
Dougpol1 33 | 3,409
10 Mar 2016 #261
Walesa exclusive in the Guardian today:

.....Not that Polonius and the other patriots could possibly drag themselves away from their hallowed positions to keep an open mind on anything.,,,,,

theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/10/lech-waesa-not-agent-spy-polish-security-services-interview
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
10 Mar 2016 #262
Not that Polonius

Godio article. Fro Guardian readers something new, but Wałęsa has said this over and over. Except in the past he has admitted to signing different things to get the SB off his back. If you were kept in a windowless dungeon for 4 days and asked whether you wanted to write a farewell letter to your family, would you have been a brave anti-regime rebel?

My own feeling after reading all that there's been to read about W is that he signed but did not spy. Some people pretended to spy by providing info that was in the papers. But too much is being made of W spying or not spying. Even the Kiszczak version (falsified or not) claims he terminated his SB links in 1976. Circumstances turned him into a hero, he won a Nobel Prize and Poland needs such a hero. His mortal sin was the parliamentary coup that assured impunity to the nation's henchmen and executioners and, by extension, spit in the face of their victims. Full stop.
Harry
10 Mar 2016 #263
the parliamentary coup

How is a minority government failing to survive a vote of no confidence a 'coup'? You can keep claiming that it is, but that will in no way change history.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
10 Mar 2016 #264
no way change history.

No, but it can help explain hsitory. Now we know how the post-RT establishment came into being and when. Had the dossiers been published, falsifications and all, within several years the forgeries would have got weeded out, we would have known who's who and the chaff could be separated from the grain. Instead the Soviet-serving oppressors of the nation obtianed guarantees of impunity, strenghrtened their grip on the military and security apparatus and were able to worm their way into administrative structures privatisation system, state treasury companies and private business to become the oligarchs of III RP.
Harry
10 Mar 2016 #265
No, but it can help explain hsitory.

Describing a minority government failing to survive a vote of no confidence a 'coup' is not explaining history: it is falsifying history. Do you actually know what the word 'coup' means? Here's a helpful hint for you: a minority government that fails to survive a vote of no confidence and decides to carry on governing regardless has just carried one out.

Instead the Soviet-serving oppressors of the nation obtianed guarantees of impunity, strenghrtened their grip on the military and security apparatus and were able to worm their way into administrative structures privatisation system, state treasury companies and private business to become the oligarchs of III RP.

Some of them certainly did, scum has an unfortunate habit of rising to the top. However, a lot of other Soviet-serving oppressors didn't manage to do as well under the new system as they did under the old system; so they retreated to the over-large houses they'd acquired for knock-down prices, i.e. stolen from Poland, and watched their fortunes fall so far that they couldn't even afford to maintain those places. But now here comes PIS, handing out tens of thousands of zlotys a month per person for those who display unquestioning loyalty to the Party and the Chairman Kaczynski: it's like all their Christmas have come at once for those failures who collaborated with the commies.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
10 Mar 2016 #266
TW "Bolek"

Just check what the old idiot Bolo is posting on the internet. This guy is insane.

Sorry mods, it's not possible to translate anything from Bolish.
Pogorzelec - | 1
4 Jun 2017 #267
@delphiandomine
SLD, UD, KLD, PSL and KPN have 253 MPs in Sejm, so they could easily vote against Olszewski's government. It is worth to mention that people who were voting for UD, KLD and KPN were hoping that their representatives would stand for freedom and independence. Black propaganda was working against PC. ZChN had number of TWs in their own ranks.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
4 Jun 2017 #268
Black propaganda was working against PC

And it's the same black propaganda now working against the democratically elected PiS government. It's not about freedom, democracy, constitutionality or rule of law. Those are sugar-coated slogans designed to win support from the gullible. It's only about self-interest. In the case of the PO-KOD-Petru-PSL losers' club the watchword is: BACK TO THE TROUGH!
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
4 Jun 2017 #269
attempts to smear Wałęsa

Wałęsa has smeared himself by reneging on his own admission to being TW Bolek, He did so during the Nocna zmiana affair and sent the admission to PAP. Then he withdrew it and decades of denial aned self-smearing ensued.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
4 Jun 2017 #270
Nocna zmiana

BE SURE TO WATCH 'NOCNA ZMIANA' TONIGHT ON TVP1!


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